Grace and Works broken down

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Folks, that is enough!!

Enough with the flames! Calling each other heretics or other names is not acceptable.

The topic is in the OP. The topic is not Paul except as related to scripture in the discussion.


The Statement of Purpose for this forum includes:
Challenging Paul's position as an Apostle of Jesus Christ who (although not one of the original twelve) was sent forth by Christ after his conversion [Acts 9:15-16], or arguing against the inclusion of Paul's writings in the New Testament canon, is not allowed in any "Christians Only" forums (including the Controversial Christian Theology forum). You may disagree on the interpretation and application of his writings, but not their place as canon or Paul as an inspired author of Scripture.

Some of you keep bringing up Paul, and are goading. There was a clean up. Stick to the topic and if you cannot post without flaming, leave the thread.





 
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Jesus is YHWH

my Lord and my God !
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Psalm 3:8
Salvation belongs to the LORD

Psalm 37:39
But the salvation of the righteous is of the LORD

Psalm 62:1
My soul waits in silence for God only; From Him is my salvation.

Salvation is FROM, BY and OF the LORD, AMEN !
 
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Devin Hammond

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Psalm 3:8
Salvation belongs to the LORD

Psalm 37:39
But the salvation of the righteous is of the LORD

Psalm 62:1
My soul waits in silence for God only; From Him is my salvation.

Salvation is FROM, BY and OF the LORD, AMEN !

You’re right but our participation is required. We are the bride of Christ and like any marriage a relationship and response is necessary.
 
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Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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In Matthew 25:31-46 we see the sheep receiving the rewards not the goats.

You seem to be thoroughly confused.

That person who was saved in 1 Corinthians 3:15 was still a sheep.

It’s describing a Christian who had some of his works burned up.

I agree with you, brother.
There is only one Judgement.
I believe we are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace through faith in Christ, but we must also enter the Sanctification Process as a part of God's plan of salvation. Sanctification always happens after being saved by God's grace. Sanctification involves good works, holy living, and putting away sin.

Many today want to justify a sin and still be saved type belief. They distort the parable in 1 Corinthians 3 without really fully understanding it.

What is the true meaning of the parable of the building,
and it's materials in 1 Corinthians 3?

Well, Paul says before the parable, "you are God's building."
So we are the materials that make up the building.

The work is not referring to just any kind of general actions of a believer like good fruit (any kind of good fruit) and evil fruit (sin). The work is referring to those believers we bring to the faith and their current spiritual status with God (i.e. what kind of building materials are they made up of). The Parable is talking about Paul's work (Which is the Corinthians in this instance).

I believe Paul and the other apostles are a part of the foundation with Christ being the chief cornerstone or the ultimate baseline foundation (Ephesians 2:20), and that Paul's work in the gospel are the result of the Corinthians being initially saved by the gospel. However, Paul is now concerned that his labor in the gospel (concerning them) is now in vain because the Corinthians are now working the sins of strife and envying (Note: Paul condemns the sins of strife and envying when writing to the Galatians (Galatians 5:19-21). Paul says that they which do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God). In Galatians 4:11, Paul was concerned for the Galatians in that they were going back to the Old Law so as to be justified or saved. He was concerned that his labor for the gospel was in vain for the Galatians.

So the parable speaks of how his labor for the gospel (concerning the Corinthians) was now possibly in vain for them, too.

#1. The chief cornerstone foundation = Jesus Christ.
#2. Built as a part of the foundation on top of Christ = The apostles (including Paul, etc.) (Ephesians 2:20).
#3. The actual building materials of the tower or building = God's people (In this instance it would be the Corinthians).
#4. The Corinthians would be like: Wood, hay, and stubble in this particular point in time within their life while they abided in their sins of strife, and envying (Which are sins that will cause a person to not inherit the Kingdom of God).
Wood, hay, and stubble are not materials that could survive a fire.
#5. Paul (the soul winner, and builder of the gospel and builder upon the foundation of Jesus Christ) would be saved through the fire (despite his work - i.e. the Corinthians being his work) would be burned up because of their sins. For Paul then says that if any man defiles the temple, God will destroy them (Meaning: God will destroy the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins). We are the temple of God. Our bodies are the temples of God. If we as believers defile our temples by sin, God will destroy us (i.e. condemn us).​

This is what I believe the parable is saying. The works of Paul that will be burned are the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins of strife and envy (1 Corinthians 3:3). The Corinthians at this point in time are not saved and they will be burned up in the fire and destroyed by God if they don't seek forgiveness with the Lord and turn from their sins of strife and envy. Paul, the apostles, or the gospel preacher is the one who will be saved through fire if his work (the Corinthians) is burned up (on the account of their justifying sin). OSAS folk falsely think the parable is talking about how a believer can sin and still be saved as long as they have a belief on Jesus. But it's actually teaching the exact opposite of that. One cannot build sin as a work upon the foundation of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not advocate sin, and neither did He teach that a person can continue to sin and still be saved.

Yes, we are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace, but believers cannot justify sin, and they have to be fruitful for their Lord and live holy as a part of the Sanctification Process.
For Hebrews 12:14-15 says,

“14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness,
without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;”
 
  • Agree
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Guojing

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But He did come a second time already, they killed Him the first time and the new covenant started with His resurrection. Christianity is dead in the water without the resurrection.
There are no more Jews and Gentiles or circumcision, the bride of Christ is made up of people from every nation, tribe and tongue.

You believe his 2nd coming took place at ad 70?
 
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Dan1988

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You believe his 2nd coming took place at ad 70?
No Sir, I believe the Jewish apocalypses occurred in AD70. Jesus told His Disciples that the temple would be destroyed and not one stone would be standing.
Some try to apply that to the coming tribulation but it just doesn't fit. There will be no third temple built ever again, because that would be an abomination to God and He will not allow any such abomination to take place in His sight.
The temple and the old sacrificial system were done away with forever. Christ is the new temple and His people dwell and worship in Him.
 
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Guojing

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No Sir, I believe the Jewish apocalypses occurred in AD70. Jesus told His Disciples that the temple would be destroyed and not one stone would be standing.
Some try to apply that to the coming tribulation but it just doesn't fit. There will be no third temple built ever again, because that would be an abomination to God and He will not allow any such abomination to take place in His sight.
The temple and the old sacrificial system were done away with forever. Christ is the new temple and His people dwell and worship in Him.

So when was his 2nd coming to Earth, according to you?
 
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Marc Perry

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This is quite helpful, but it's not what the people want to hear. Most like to hear about the promise of reward for obedience. They feel left out when we ascribe the whole work of salvation to the Lord, it's as though there's nothing in it for them.

Wow. Completely disagree. I don't know people like that at all.
 
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