Netherlands Plans to Allow Euthanasia for Under-12s

Is it legal to commit suicide in the Netherlands?

Incurable and terminally ill? Two doctors' approval? Consent from parents and patient?

Sounds right.

Carl Emerson said:

Is it legal to commit suicide in the Netherlands?

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I'm pretty sure it is.

Johnboy53 said:

The Netherlands is set to become the second country in the world to allow euthanasia for terminally ill children under 12. After months of debate in the country's ruling coalition, Health Minister Hugo de Jonge said regulations would be changed to help "a small group of terminally ill children who agonize with no hope, and unbearable suffering," the Guardian reports.

Netherlands Plans to Allow Euthanasia for Under-12s

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I saw this last night and was shocked , my opinion has always been that volunteer euthanasia (volunteer killing) is the first step down the slippery slope.
I even thought about the worlds situation now with the pandemic, how it could be used also because of the economic situation, health care. Will people terminally ill or even elderly be made to feel they are a burden?
Then the mentally ill......and so on.

I know some disagree but my view is that all life is sacred and it is not our call to ever actively end it.

Heavenhome said:

I saw this last night and was shocked , my opinion has always been that volunteer euthanasia (volunteer killing) is the first step down the slippery slope.

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The Netherlands first passed laws allowing voluntary euthanasia coming up on 20 years ago. How long must one travel down this slope before the awful things those opposing people choosing their fate kick in?

Heavenhome said:

I saw this last night and was shocked , my opinion has always been that volunteer euthanasia (volunteer killing) is the first step down the slippery slope.
I even thought about the worlds situation now with the pandemic, how it could be used also because of the economic situation, health care. Will people terminally ill or even elderly be made to feel they are a burden?
Then the mentally ill......and so on.

I know some disagree but my view is that all life is sacred and it is not our call to ever actively end it.

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Not sure my slippery slope speculation should be enough to prevent someone else from ending their own horrible suffering.

Heavenhome said:

Will people terminally ill or even elderly be made to feel they are a burden?
Then the mentally ill......and so on.

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I think that goes against human nature. The loved ones of the suffering person are the last to want to let them go. The reason for euthanasia is always to end the suffering of the patient,not because the patient is a burden. And the patient decides. It is inhumane to force someone to live in horrible pain or mental anguish everyday when they could be released to the afterlife.

dogs4thewin said:

It's been legal assisted suicide is also lawful in a handful of states for people who are at least 18, terminally ill, of sound mind and can take the lethal dose of medicine themselves. The doctor or another person may not say inject it or give or help them take it they must still be able to actually take the medicine without assistance

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Which can leave people with degenerative illnesses unable to take that option.

Desk trauma said:

Which can leave people with degenerative illnesses unable to take that option.

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That is my fear. That I'll travel too far down that raod and by the time I want to end things it is beyond my ability.

Interestingly if it becomes established that such a fear is justified in general more people might take a suicide option too early to avoid the chance of being stuck in pain and unable to escape.

Let's make it a point to check back in five years or so and see how this proposal, assuming it's enacted, has morphed into something less forgivable. That's what happened with the introduction of euthanasia of the elderly.

Albion said:

Let's make it a point to check back in five years or so and see how this proposal, assuming it's enacted, has morphed into something less forgivable. That's what happened with the introduction of euthanasia of the elderly.

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How has the euthanasia of the elderly "morphed into something less forgivable"?

Nithavela said:

How has the euthanasia of the elderly "morphed into something less forgivable"?

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This will help you:

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2019/april/euthanasia-becoming-default-way-to-die-in-belgium

Good...

I don't know why there has always been such a stigma with letting people who are 100% terminally ill go out on their own terms without weeks (or even months) of endless suffering.

As someone who's watched 2 family members suffer slow painful deaths from stage 4 metastatic cancer, allowing people to go out on their own terms under the oversight of medical professionals without all that needless suffering is far more humane if they want to make that choice.


If we were talking about allowing physically healthy manic depressive folks to make that choice when it was simply a case of them having an episode, then I could see where there would be some well-justified criticisms.

...but if someone is terminally ill, and are going to die in a month or two, and it's going to be a very bad month or two (trust me, I've seen it...a person being in excruciating pain and vomiting every 20 mins for the last 2 months of their life is no way to go), giving them an option to say "inject me now so I can go to sleep and end this" is the far more humane outcome.

ThatRobGuy said:

If we were talking about allowing physically healthy manic depressive folks to make that choice when it was simply a case of them having an episode, then I could see where there would be some well-justified criticisms.

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I 'agreed' with your post, but I want to say something controversial.

I have a child who is both bi-polar and has borderline personality disorder. From the time she was 4, she could express that she wanted to die. From the time she was about 10, she's made the attempt, on average, at least once a year for the last 11 years. Every year, she's been institutionalized for some period of time. Once for 3 straight months. She is institutionalized as I write this.

The only saving grace is that while these tendencies will never go away (in our darker moments, my spouse and I are convince we will out live her), aging is likely to mellow her out. We have friends that have similar conditions and their "incidents" are rarer.

The controversial bit: If she were not in an episode and expressed a desire to be done, I'd support her choice to end it. If a person chronically wants to die, let them.

(Addendum: Criminalizing suicide? That's some twisted thinking there.)

Tinker Grey said:

I 'agreed' with your post, but I want to say something controversial.

I have a child who is both bi-polar and has borderline personality disorder. From the time she was 4, she could express that she wanted to die. From the time she was about 10, she's made the attempt, on average, at least once a year for the last 11 years. Every year, she's been institutionalized for some period of time. Once for 3 straight months. She is institutionalized as I write this.

The only saving grace is that while these tendencies will never go away (in our darker moments, my spouse and I are convince we will out live her), aging is likely to mellow her out. We have friends that have similar conditions and their "incidents" are rarer.

The controversial bit: If she were not in an episode and expressed a desire to be done, I'd support her choice to end it. If a person chronically wants to die, let them.

(Addendum: Criminalizing suicide? That's some twisted thinking there.)

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It sucks that you guys are dealing with that. I can't imagine the stress and worry that causes.

I would say that suicide shouldn't be criminalized. The libertarian in me says, if a person is truly free, the freedom of choice to "check out" and not live anymore shouldn't be criminalized if that's what a person truly wants.

The key part is a doctor's involvement. A doctor, in good conscience, would have a tough time justifying involvement if that person were bi-polar, and having an episode, assisting them in suicide.

ThatRobGuy said:

A doctor, in good conscience, would have a tough time justifying involvement if that person were bi-polar, and having an episode, assisting them in suicide.

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Why?

If a person wants to die. Let them. Now if you meant by "tough time justifying" that we humans aren't prepared to allow for this state of affairs, I suppose that that is correct. Nevertheless, let them. Our existential horror is just that: Ours. Their existential horror, apparently, is to continue living.

(I say 'apparently' because it is important to note that while we've walked a long road with our daughter, it would be a mistake to say we 'understand' our daughter. But, I'd venture that we understand these circumstances more than those that think that platitudes are all one needs. "Let go and let God". Bah. Superficial codswallop.)

ETA: I should add that I agree that checks and balances are called for (some doctor input). I'd hate to think that, ala Romeo and Juliet, some hapless person made a stupid decision on fleeting circumstance. Nevertheless, where the state of affairs is chronic ... what's to justify? The fact that is chronic is justification enough (YMMV).

ThatRobGuy said:

Good...

I don't know why there has always been such a stigma with letting people who are 100% terminally ill go out on their own terms without weeks (or even months) of endless suffering.

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But if this post is a follow-up to the question you asked me (which it appears to be) and to the link that I gave in reply...it is not dealing with the same issue.

I said that the proposed change in policy being considered in the Netherlands would most likely morph into something less forgivable, and that is what the link explains.

Tinker Grey said:

Why?

If a person wants to die. Let them. Now if you meant by "tough time justifying" that we humans aren't prepared to allow for this state of affairs, I suppose that that is correct. Nevertheless, let them. Our existential horror is just that: Ours. Their existential horror, apparently, is to continue living.

(I say 'apparently' because it is important to note that while we've walked a long road with our daughter, it would be a mistake to say we 'understand' our daughter. But, I'd venture that we understand these circumstances more than those that think that platitudes are all one needs. "Let go and let God". Bah. Superficial codswallop.)

ETA: I should add that I agree that checks and balances are called for (some doctor input). I'd hate to think that, ala Romeo and Juliet, some hapless person made a stupid decision on fleeting circumstance. Nevertheless, where the state of affairs is chronic ... what's to justify? The fact that is chronic is justification enough (YMMV).

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...I do think that mental health conditions and physical health conditions would need to have a different medical approval process.

For instance, if a person has stage-IV metastatic cancer (and are in the late phases with metastasis to brain and respiratory system), if that person would prefer to end it and not suffer for 4 weeks needlessly (only for the same outcome at the end...IE: death), that should be pretty cut and dry and wouldn't be subject to that much review.

Mental health situations need a little more review and TLC I think...

For instance, a person merely coming in and saying they're depressed and don't want to live anymore, I think several aspects would need to be reviewed.
1) are they even being medicated for it?
2) if they are on medication, did they recently abruptly quit taking it instead of tapering down?
3) did they recently change medications and are having adverse effects because of it?

If all proper medicinal interventions are being followed, and they're still just not right and suffering, then sure, it should be an option that's on the table for people.

However, it would be unfortunate if a person (who was fine otherwise and living a reasonably happy normal life while on the right medications) went through with that simply because they either stopped taking their medications and are currently unbalanced, or because a doctor had switched their medications and they were having a bad reaction to it. (which can sometimes take a few weeks during the adjustment period).