Is faith a factor in climate change denial?
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Because you took the time to write it to me; so I am responding.
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FreedomForever
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Of course it is. The problem is so many supposed Christians, even if they can quote you every single last word of the Bible, do not actually follow God but follow their political party - Republicans/conservatives as is the case. They don't care about truth, they don't care about science, they don't care about facts, they don't care about anything but what their party says - and spoiler alert everything their party is trying to do is help the rich and toss the poor, including the planet, on the streets.
For any truly objective person, Christian or not, the debate is a settled matter.
For any truly objective person, Christian or not, the debate is a settled matter.
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Ana the Ist
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I've always thought that inherent belief in an "end times" scenario would possibly influence someone's reaction to news that the world is ending.
I think the problem is the notion that the cause is people and not some 7 headed beast of revelation. If one truly believes in an end time scenario...then any end time which doesn't fit one's preconceived ideas about the end is suspect, if not rejected outright.
That said...I don't really see any connection between belief in climate change and behavior regarding climate change. The people who believe in climate change aren't dramatically changing their behavior to slow climate change. In fact, they tend to use the deniers as an excuse for their behavior.
If we look at the evangelical population....estimates put it at 50-60 million, maybe double that if we stretch the definition of evangelical. That's nothing compared to the 8 billion who have to get on board with the plan to stop climate change....of which there's at least 2 billion who appear to be unsustainable without cheap carbon based energy.
In short, is there probably a connection between certain religious beliefs and CC denial? I think so.
Does it make any difference in solving the CC problem? No...not in any significant way.
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Ana the Ist
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Anyone who really believes that climate change is a solvable problem hasn't actually thought about solutions.
Last I checked, Ulaan Bataar is one of the most polluted cities in the world. It's a combination of geography, high population, and lack of options that make it so bad.
Fixing it would require an alternative to coal, and since solar and wind most likely aren't options....so that basically leaves nuclear. Billions would have to be spent, massive improvements to infrastructure, and a whole education system that teaches nuclear science would all be required to make this a long term solution. Teams of people would need to dedicate themselves for decades and as I said....billions of dollars invested.
That's 1 city....that's what it would take to fix 1 heavily polluted city in the long term. Who would invest in such a debacle for the benefit of the environment alone? Well no one if course.....
We might be able to convince people to do it for profit....allow them to profit off controlling the energy....but I'm almost certain I can guess what the reaction of the left will be. They'll call it a modern form of colonization and economic oppression. It won't be the religious conservatives standing in way of environmental protection.
When you realize that this is essentially a small problem compared to hundreds of much larger and more complex problems causing climate change....there's really only 1 rational conclusion...
It's not going to get fixed....it's only going to get worse and it doesn't matter who we elect or how seriously they take the problem. It wouldn't matter if we all agreed that climate change is real. There is no solution.
We would be better off accepting that it will happen and start planning for the effects and trying to mitigate or lessen the damage to our nation.
Last I checked, Ulaan Bataar is one of the most polluted cities in the world. It's a combination of geography, high population, and lack of options that make it so bad.
Fixing it would require an alternative to coal, and since solar and wind most likely aren't options....so that basically leaves nuclear. Billions would have to be spent, massive improvements to infrastructure, and a whole education system that teaches nuclear science would all be required to make this a long term solution. Teams of people would need to dedicate themselves for decades and as I said....billions of dollars invested.
That's 1 city....that's what it would take to fix 1 heavily polluted city in the long term. Who would invest in such a debacle for the benefit of the environment alone? Well no one if course.....
We might be able to convince people to do it for profit....allow them to profit off controlling the energy....but I'm almost certain I can guess what the reaction of the left will be. They'll call it a modern form of colonization and economic oppression. It won't be the religious conservatives standing in way of environmental protection.
When you realize that this is essentially a small problem compared to hundreds of much larger and more complex problems causing climate change....there's really only 1 rational conclusion...
It's not going to get fixed....it's only going to get worse and it doesn't matter who we elect or how seriously they take the problem. It wouldn't matter if we all agreed that climate change is real. There is no solution.
We would be better off accepting that it will happen and start planning for the effects and trying to mitigate or lessen the damage to our nation.
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- Nov 14, 2017
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what can man actually do to change the climate? This is the question ....
The climate has always been changing and will continue to do so .... even before the onset of carbon emissions etc. there have been "climate/weather issues".
Now .... pollution is another matter (and we can do better) and YES this should certainly be addressed (and is in some regards) and also creating access to potable water should be a high priority ... especially in 3rd world countries.
Christians don't " idly stand by" any more than any other organized group(s) do.
Do you think government(s) will resolve the issues? How does America resolve the earths pollution issues when China (and other countries) are doing basically nothing about it?
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rambot
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If you are asking this question sincerely, I would STRONGLY suggest you start listening to actual scientists as they will have all kinds of answers for you.
The changes that took 10s of thousands of years are happenning in less than decades.
The idea that the "climate is always changing" is like saying you get the EXACT same piece of meat whether you grill a steak at 170 for 1.5hrs or 450 for 25 minutes.
Well,
1) You LITERALLY just denied it wsa an issue.
2) You ALSO just questioned whether people can actually do something.
So you'll have to forgive me for thinking that this comment is kind of empty
1) I think governments can do things that HELP with issues, yes. And frankly, they can do those things at large cost and HUGE benefit (see the Green Deal...i mean, whether you like it or not, thta is EXACTLY whta it will do.
2) China is not "basically doing nothing about it". China is investing 3 times as much into renewable and green energy than the US right now (360 billion compared to 59 billion). So if you think "china is basically doing nothing" I wonder what you think America is doing?
In china in 2017 37% of it's energy came from renewable resources.
In the US that year, it was 18%
My question is: What are critics going to do with this information?
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I have no faith in government accomplishing much ..... they are all talk.
Which ones do you listen to? All kinds of scientific opinions out there. What's the plan, what will it take to implement the plan. How effective will it be? How long will it take?
Where, what is/are the actual policies being proposed and put in place for the "new green deal" (other than a bunch of $$$$$ needed) and where is the actual science that backs up those policies (if they exist in any detail) prove it is actually achievable and in what time frame?
ok ... so here are the top polluters .... how do all these countries get on board with what science says needs to be done? World government?
https://ceasepollution.com/top-10-b...c2OFyVAHlwhOl_lHMaO2Kiguo0L-E72hoCGo8QAvD_BwE
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rambot
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And while you think that the EU is leaving you in the dust with their forward momentum on this issue. Americans continually vote for a terrible and ineffectual government because of their two party system so I'm not surprised you think you're government sucks; y'all keep voting for the EXACT same people. Your encumbancy rate is what.....85-90%?
Don't blame the government. Blame the citizenry.
Listen to the scientists:
1) Who are ACTIVELY involved in research
2) Who are informed at and the forefront of all the knowledge.
3) Read the research; read the skeptics response to it, then ALSO read the mainstream response to the skeptics. Too few people just read the middle and don't even bother with the former OR the latter.
4) Who study the topic at hand. I mean really; what are you listening to a geological engineer talk about climate models? I don't go to a gynocologist to get my prostrate examined. (not syaing you do....)
But hold on. Are you even there yet? In the LAST post you were saying there is nothing we can do to change the climate. Are you now open to the possibility that, in fact we CAN change the climate?
THe NGD is not a huge document and it says the guiding framework and outlaws some fairly specific policies. Your caricaturization of "other than a bunch of $$$$ needed, shows you don't actually know what policies listed in the document. As you go over it, none of them on their own is REALLY all that insane. You should check it out; even some ideas that, I would argue are pretty cool and should get an investment just for the jobs and infrastructure development.
As for your list of those countries, I have two things to say:
1) I would strongly suggest that you see what those countries are doing CURRENTLY to mitigate climate change and CO2 emissions.
2) You put up a link to a website that has NO citations for their source and doesn't even have a title for. I'm not saying it's incorrect, just that it doesn't inspire confidence.
List of countries by carbon dioxide emissions - Wikipedia
Now you can "hate on" wiki all you want. But I'm ONLY going to accept that hate on if you discredit their IMPECCABLY CITED data.
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What is the price tag of the new green deal?
How will it be implemented?
I don't hate anything (but I do question) .... politicians and world leaders come and go and so do their "big ideas" ... to think we can get the whole world on board (which it would take to even attempt to try and resolve anything) is impossible to think that would happen.
What is your confidence in?
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rambot
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Wait. The NGD started as a discussion point where you argued that government can't do anything. I put that up to say it could. I don't want to keep answering your questions and responding to shifting goal posts if you don't response to how I respond to your questions.
So i'm guessing you have done research into those countries then?
That depends on what the topic is. But I believe you are a Christian and, I'm guessing, OPEN to the possibility that climate change COULD be a big problem.
So if you are, I would like to recommend you become familiar with Katerine Hayhoe. She is a christian atmospheric scientist. She is lovely, well spoken and intelligent.
Katharine Hayhoe | Climate Scientist
I have not vetted this movie but I'm SURE it provides a good reasoning
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I have read some things here and there ..... I'll go check this person out.
the main point I am trying to make IS a very simple one ....
it would take a world-wide effort to attempt to do anything that would be effective world-wide climate.
.... and the idea that a world-wide mindset in an effort to try and accomplish "controlling climate changes" would/will never happen and is ridiculous to think so.
How much co2 do volcanoes emit?
According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), the world's volcanoes, both on land and undersea, generate about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually, while our automotive and industrial activities cause some 24 billion tons of CO2 emissions every year worldwide.
How much of a reduction in CO2 emissions is needed to effectively control climate change and for how long does that extend the earth's (and it's inhabitants) longevity?
What are the limits and who decides what automotive and/or industrial activities are permissible or not (on a world-wide basis)?
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I think it's mostly an American thing. Outside the US, Christians are less politically partisan, and don't skew towards the far right.
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MIDutch
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I think Ann Coulter lays out the US Evangelical Christian position pretty well:
"The ethic of conservation is the explicit abnegation of man's dominion over the Earth. The lower species are here for our use. God said so: Go forth, be fruitful, multiply, and rape the planet — it's yours. That's our job: drilling, mining and stripping. Sweaters are the anti-Biblical view. Big gas-guzzling cars with phones and CD players and wet bars — that's the Biblical view." - 12 October 2000.
"The ethic of conservation is the explicit abnegation of man's dominion over the Earth. The lower species are here for our use. God said so: Go forth, be fruitful, multiply, and rape the planet — it's yours. That's our job: drilling, mining and stripping. Sweaters are the anti-Biblical view. Big gas-guzzling cars with phones and CD players and wet bars — that's the Biblical view." - 12 October 2000.
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That always sounds so bizarre, but she did say that. Fortunately, that's not necessarily the dominant view of all Christians in the US, or even around the world. It just reflects Coulter being more politically partisan than Christian, perhaps, and willing to shill for environmentally damaging industries.. There are plenty of "cultural Christians" on the Right, just as there were many "German Christians" in the Third Reich.
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MIDutch
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I think you are being too kind. I OTOH have heard and read plenty of US Evangelical Christians say they don't worry at all about climate change (and don't particularly care) since they are of the impression that god will rapture them all up out of here before it gets really bad. Or that god (being omnipotent) wouldn't ever let humans destroy his "creation". Or that since we're in the "end times" it doesn't really matter what we humans do to the Earth since the Earth is scheduled to be destroyed any time now.
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It's not being too kind. The Pope has said that Climate Change is a serious matter than human are responsible for and must work to change. So have many mainline Protestant churches in the US, and many national Protestant churches around the world. The US just has alot of white, evangelical Christians (who are a minority of Christians in the US) that are individualistic, idiosyncratic, and anti-intellectual, but that doesn't necessarily represent Christianity as a whole.
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