Jesus is the Archangel Michael??

Daniel Marsh said:

Some SDA used what is called Clear Word Bible

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I knew one who flew an ultralight ... so I am sure we can find someone out there that uses a commentary by Jack Blanco the wrong way.. as if it were a translation.

BobRyan said:

How so?

The Bible says Enoch was translated without dying
And Jude opens the door to the "Assumption of Moses" in its quote of it.

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"
THE UNCONSCIOUS NOTHINGNESS OF DEATH SEPARATES US FROM THE GOD OF LIFE..." The State of the Dead: From Death to Life

BobRyan said:

1 Thess 4 (All the parts left out of that post above)
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those WHO are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those WHO have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

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asleep is simply how the dead appear to the living in body.

Isaiah 14 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
Israel Will Return Home
14 The Lord will again show his love to Jacob. He will again choose the people of Israel. He will give them their land. Then the non-Israelites[a] will join the Israelites, and both will become one family—Jacob’s family. 2 Those nations will bring the Israelites back to their land. The men and women from the other nations will become slaves to Israel. In the past, those people forced the Israelites to become their slaves. But in the future the Israelites will defeat those nations, and Israel will then rule over them in the Lord’s land. 3 In the past, you were slaves. People forced you to work hard. But the Lord will take away the hard work you were forced to do.

A Song About the King of Babylon
4 At that time you will begin to sing this song about the king of Babylon:

The king was cruel when he ruled us,
but now his rule is finished.
5 The Lord breaks the scepter of evil rulers;
he takes away their power.
6 In anger, the king of Babylon beat the people.
He never stopped beating them.
He was an evil ruler who ruled in anger.
He never stopped hurting people.
7 But now, the whole country rests and is quiet.
Now the people begin to celebrate.
8 You were an evil king,
and now you are finished.
Even the pine trees are happy.
The cedar trees of Lebanon rejoice.
They say, “The king chopped us down,
but now the king has fallen,
and he will never stand again.”
9 The place of death is excited
that you are coming.
Sheol is waking the spirits
of all the leaders of the earth for you.
Sheol is making the kings stand up
from their thrones to meet you.
10 They will make fun of you, saying,
“Now you are as dead as we are.
Now you are just like us.”
11 Your pride has been sent down to Sheol.
The music from your harps announces the coming of your proud spirit.
Maggots will be the bed you lie on,
and other worms will cover your body like a blanket.
12 You were like the morning star,
but you have fallen from the sky.
In the past, all the nations on earth bowed down before you,
but now you have been cut down.
13 You always told yourself,
“I will go to the skies above.
I will put my throne above God’s stars.
I will sit on Zaphon, the holy mountain where the gods meet.
14 I will go up to the altar above the tops of the clouds.
I will be like God Most High.”

15 But that did not happen.
You were brought down to the deep pit—Sheol, the place of death.
16 People will come to look at your dead body.
They will think about you and say,
“Is this the same man
who caused great fear in all the kingdoms on earth,
17 who destroyed cities
and turned the land into a desert,
who captured people in war
and would not let them go home?”
18 The kings of other nations lie buried with honor,
each king with his own grave.
19 But you were thrown out of your grave
like a branch cut from a tree and thrown away.
You are like a dead man who fell in battle,
trampled under the feet of other soldiers.
Now you look like any other dead man
wrapped in burial clothes.
20 Other kings have their own graves,
but you will not join them,
because you ruined your own country
and killed your own people.
So your wicked descendants will be stopped.

21 Prepare to kill his children,
because their father is guilty.
His children will never take control of the land.
They will never fill the world with their cities.

22 The Lord All-Powerful said, “I will stand and fight against those people. I will destroy the famous city, Babylon. I will destroy all the people there. I will destroy their children, their grandchildren, and their great-grandchildren.” The Lord himself said this.

23 “I will change Babylon. It will be a place for animals,[c] not people. It will be a swamp. I will use the ‘broom of destruction’ to sweep Babylon away.” The Lord All-Powerful said this.

God Will Also Punish Assyria
24 The Lord All-Powerful made this promise: “This will happen exactly as I meant for it to happen. It will happen just the way I planned. 25 I will destroy the king of Assyria in my country. I will walk on him on my mountains. He forced my people to be his slaves; he put a yoke on their necks. But that pole will be taken off Judah’s neck, and that burden will be removed. 26 This is what I plan to do for this land. I will use my power to punish all those nations.”

27 When the Lord All-Powerful makes a plan, no one can change it. When he raises his arm to punish, no one can stop him.

God’s Message to Philistia
28 This message[d] was given to me the year King Ahaz died[e]:

29 Country of Philistia, don’t be happy that the king who beat you is now dead. It is true that his rule has ended, but his son will come and rule. It will be like one snake giving birth to a more dangerous one. The new king will be like a quick and dangerous snake to you. 30 But even the poorest of my people will be able to eat safely. And their children will be able to lie down and feel safe. But I will make your family die from hunger, and your enemy will kill anyone who survives.

31 People near the city gates, cry!
People in the city, cry out!
Everyone in Philistia,
your courage will melt like hot wax.

Look to the north!
There is a cloud of dust.
An army is coming,
and everyone in that army is strong.[f]
32 But what will the messengers from that nation report about us?
They will say, “The Lord made Zion strong,
and his poor people went there for safety.”

"
Bible Dictionaries
Holman Bible Dictionary
Zaphon

• 
  

Joshua 13:27 ). It was probably a center of worship of the god Baal-zaphon in the days of Canaanite supremacy before the Gadites took over. It is identified with tell el-Qos, tell es-Saidiye, or tell el-Mazar. Shophan (Numbers 32:35 ) may be another spelling of the same city. 2. Mountain viewed as home of the gods in Canaanite thought, perhaps referred to in Psalm 48:2 (NIV), Isaiah 14:13 (NRSV), and Job 26:7 (NRSV), showing Yahweh controls what Canaan thought their gods possessed." Zaphon - Holman Bible Dictionary - Bible Dictionary

Daniel Marsh said:

asleep is simply how the dead appear to the living in body.

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"small pile of dust" is how the dead bodies/corpses/remains appear to the living..

In the text it refers to 'the person' as it says "those WHO ARE asleep" not "IT IS asleep" speaking of the body.

Same thing in John 11 "Our FRIEND Lazarus sleeps" not "our friend's body sleeps". No text says that when you are dead "you body sleeps" - in fact in Matt 10:28 we are told specifically that when you are dead - "you body has been killed" as opposed to "just sleeping".

mmksparbud said:

The voice of the archangel--and?? Not the voice like the archangel. There is a difference between a trumpet and the voice of the archangel.

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1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God

We know exactly who will be speaking here: an angel blows the trumpet, loud voices other than Jesus will be speaking, and I quoted texts that state angels will be with him. I am guessing you do not understand simple English, Greek or Hebrew. Robertson, shows us the grammar of the Greek. From the Greek your interpretation is not even possible.

Revelation 11:15 ESV
Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.”

Show me in the book of Revelation, where Jesus shouts like the archangel?

Let's break it down in English your proof text.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven
with a shout (we know from Rev that many will be shouting),
with the voice of the archangel, (someone else )
and with the trump of God (someone else playing it )

The simplest reading is the Lord will be accompanied by a shout, by voice of archangel and by trump of God.

"
with
/wiT͟H,wiTH/

preposition
preposition: with

1. 1.
   accompanied by (another person or thing).
   "a nice steak with a bottle of red wine""

Here is a simple grammar question for SDA friends here.
SDA reconcile these two texts please

mmksparbud said:

LOL!!! Moses and Enoch are no problem at all!!! Enoch was translated and Moses was resurrected by Michael---that was the contention in Jude just as BobRyan said.
I have no idea what you are talking about as far as Isa 14 goes.

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Friend, please reread what I wrote. the "them" refers to SDA, not Moses and Enoch

mmksparbud said:

The voice of the archangel--and?? Not the voice like the archangel. There is a difference between a trumpet and the voice of the archangel.

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The Word was With God, does that mean one person or two?

Then God said, “Let the water be filled with many living things, does this mean that water is the many living things?

Her husband was there with her is this one or two people?

Immanuel means “God with us.” does this mean the us is God?

But Joseph did not have sexual relations with her is this one or two people?

1 Thessalonians 4:14We believe that Jesus died, but we also believe that he rose again. So we believe that God will raise to life through Jesus any who have died and bring them together with him when he comes.

are those of us who are raised now Jesus?

And we will be with the Lord forever. are we now the Lord forever?

we can live together with him Is we and him the same persons?

2 Thessalonians 1:7And he will bring relief to you who are troubled. He will bring it to you and to us when the Lord Jesus comes from heaven for all to see, together with his powerful angels.

Is Jesus now all the angels?

2 Thessalonians 1:8He will come with burning fire to punish those who don’t know God—those who refuse to accept the Good News about our Lord Jesus.

Is He now the burning fire?

I can go on and on, the use of the word "with" in your proof text in context means accomplied.

Major1 said:

Jesus is NOT a prince! Jesus is the KING of glory and the Creator of ALL things.

Michael is a created being, created by The God-Man, The Lord Jesus Christ!

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The early SDA were arains and saw the Son of God as literally begotten or made by the Father.

One needs only google "early seventh-day adventist pioneers arians" to see all the proof for this claim.

BobRyan said:

"small pile of dust" is how the dead appear to the living..

In the text it refers to 'the person' as it says "those WHO ARE asleep" not "IT IS asleep" speaking of the body.

Same thing in John 11 "Our FRIEND Lazarus sleeps" not "our friend's body sleeps". No text says that when you are dead "you body sleeps" - in fact in Matt 10:28 we are told specifically that when you are dead - "you body has been killed" as opposed to "just sleeping".

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again only a figure of speech

Major1 said:

No, Moses and Elijah weren't resurrected so that Peter, James, and John could see them. We already know this because John 3:13 tells us that "no man hath ascended up to heaven".

Look at how Matthew describes the event:

And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. — Matthew 17:3
…
And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. — Matthew 17:9

Notice that they "appeared unto them", and that later Jesus refers to it as a "vision".

Visions appear throughout the Bible. They are not physical things, but something that happens in the minds of those experiencing them.

In Acts 10, Peter later had a vision of unclean animals being presented as food:

… he fell into a trance and saw … . Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean ….

Similarly, in the book of Revelation, John describes his vision of the Day of the Lord as being seen "in the spirit".

Visions are just that. They aren't real physical events.
Did God resurrect Moses?

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Enoch was translated, so why Elijah. Moses was resurrected and so were many when Jesus died.
Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

You are free to believe as you wish.

REVELATION 1:5
KJ21 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first-begotten of the dead, and the prince over the kings of the earth. Unto Him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
ASV and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loveth us, and loosed us from our sins by his blood;
AMP and from Jesus Christ, the faithful and trustworthy Witness, the Firstborn of the dead, and the Ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who [always] loves us and who [has once for all] freed us [or washed us] from our sins by His own blood (His sacrificial death)—
AMPC And from Jesus Christ the faithful and trustworthy Witness, the Firstborn of the dead [first to be brought back to life] and the Prince (Ruler) of the kings of the earth. To Him Who ever loves us and has once [for all] loosed and freed us from our sins by His own blood,
BRG And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
CSB and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has set us free from our sins by his blood,
CEB and from Jesus Christ—the faithful witness, the firstborn from among the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To the one who loves us and freed us from our sins by his blood,
CJB and from Yeshua the Messiah, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead and the ruler of the earth’s kings. To him, the one who loves us, who has freed us from our sins at the cost of his blood,
CEV May kindness and peace be yours from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness. Jesus was the first to conquer death, and he is the ruler of all earthly kings. Christ loves us, and by his blood he set us free from our sins.
DARBY and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us, and has washed us from our sins in his blood,
DLNT and from Jesus Christ— the Faithful Witness, the Firstborn of the dead, and the Ruler of the kings of the earth. To the One loving us and having released us from our sins by His blood—
DRA And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth, who hath loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
ERV and from Jesus Christ. Jesus is the faithful witness. He is first among all who will be raised from death. He is the ruler of the kings of the earth. Jesus is the one who loves us and has made us free from our sins with his blood sacrifice.
EHV and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his own blood
ESV and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
ESVUK and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
EXB and from Jesus Christ. Jesus is ·the faithful witness [or the faithful one, the witness], the ·first among those raised from [L firstborn of/from among] the dead. He is the ruler of the kings of the earth. ·He is the One [L To him] who loves us, who made us free from our sins ·with the blood of his death [L by his blood].
GNV And from Jesus Christ which is that faithful witness, and that first begotten of the dead, and that Prince of the Kings of the earth, unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his blood,
GW and from Jesus Christ, the witness, the trustworthy one, the first to come back to life, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. Glory and power forever and ever belong to the one who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
GNT and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first to be raised from death and who is also the ruler of the kings of the world. He loves us, and by his sacrificial death he has freed us from our sins
HCSB and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and has set us free from our sins by His blood,
ICB and from Jesus Christ. Jesus is the faithful witness. He is first among those raised from death. He is the ruler of the kings of the earth. He is the One who loves us. And he is the One who made us free from our sins with the blood of his death.
ISV and from Jesus the Messiah, the witness, the faithful one, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To the one who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
PHILLIPS John, to the seven Churches in Asia: Grace and peace be to you from him who is and who was and who is coming, from the seven Spirits before his throne, and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, first-born of the dead, and ruler of kings upon earth. To him who loves us and has set us free from our sins through his own blood, who has made us a kingdom of priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and power for timeless ages, amen.
KJV And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
AKJV and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
LEB and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To the one who loves us and released us from our sins by his blood
TLB and from Jesus Christ who faithfully reveals all truth to us. He was the first to rise from death, to die no more. He is far greater than any king in all the earth. All praise to him who always loves us and who set us free from our sins by pouring out his lifeblood for us.
MSG I, John, am writing this to the seven churches in Asia province: All the best to you from The God Who Is, The God Who Was, and The God About to Arrive, and from the Seven Spirits assembled before his throne, and from Jesus Christ—Loyal Witness, Firstborn from the dead, Ruler of all earthly kings. Glory and strength to Christ, who loves us, who blood-washed our sins from our lives, Who made us a Kingdom, Priests for his Father, forever—and yes, he’s on his way! Riding the clouds, he’ll be seen by every eye, those who mocked and killed him will see him, People from all nations and all times will tear their clothes in lament. Oh, Yes.
MEV and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
MOUNCE and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, · the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the world. To him who loves us and has freed us from · our sins by · his blood
NOG and from Yeshua Christ, the witness, the trustworthy one, the first to come back to life, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. Glory and power forever and ever belong to the one who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
NABRE and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead and ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,
NASB and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood—
NCV and from Jesus Christ. Jesus is the faithful witness, the first among those raised from the dead. He is the ruler of the kings of the earth. He is the One who loves us, who made us free from our sins with the blood of his death.
NET and from Jesus Christ—the faithful witness, the firstborn from among the dead, the ruler over the kings of the earth. To the one who loves us and has set us free from our sins at the cost of his own blood
NIRV May grace and peace come to you from Jesus Christ. He is the faithful witness, so what he has shown can be trusted. He was the first to rise from the dead. He rules over the kings of the earth. Glory and power belong to Jesus Christ who loves us! He has set us free from our sins by pouring out his blood for us.
NIV and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,
NIVUK and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,
NKJV and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
NLV May you have loving-favor and peace from Jesus Christ Who is faithful in telling the truth. Jesus Christ is the first to be raised from the dead. He is the head over all the kings of the earth. He is the One Who loves us and has set us free from our sins by His blood.
NLT and from Jesus Christ. He is the faithful witness to these things, the first to rise from the dead, and the ruler of all the kings of the world. All glory to him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by shedding his blood for us.
NMB and from Jesus Christ, who is a faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and Lord over the kings of the earth. To him who loved us and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
NRSV and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and freed us from our sins by his blood,
NRSVA and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and freed us from our sins by his blood,
NRSVACE and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and freed us from our sins by his blood,
NRSVCE and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and freed us from our sins by his blood,
NTE and from Jesus the Messiah, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. Glory to the one who loved us, and freed us from our sins by his blood,
OJB And from Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach, the ed hane’eman (faithful witness), the BECHOR (Firstborn, TEHILLIM 89:28 [27]) of the Mesim and the Nagid, ELYON L’MALKHEI A’RETZ ("Leader, Most exalted of Kings of the earth, TEHILLIM 89:27). To the One who has ahavah for us and has freed us [from the Golus of, YESHAYAH 59:2; 53:3] peyshaeinu [our transgressions, YESHAYAH 53:5] by [Geulah redemption through the kofer pedut ransom korban of his nefesh (YESHAYAH 53:10) in the kapporah atonement of] the dahm of him, [TEHILLIM 130:8; YESHAYAH 40:2; TEHILLIM 89:38; YIRMEYAH 42:5; YESHAYAH 55:4; BERESHIS 22:8; SHEMOT 12:13; YESHAYAH 53:7; VAYIKRA 17:11]
TPT and from Jesus Christ the Faithful Witness, the Firstborn from among the dead and the ruling King, who rules over the kings of the earth! Now to the one who constantly loves us and has loosed us from our sins by his own blood,
RGT and from Jesus Christ, Who is that faithful witness and that first begotten of the dead and that Prince of the Kings of the earth. To Him - who loved us and washed us from our sins in His blood
RSV and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
RSVCE and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
TLV and from Messiah Yeshua, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by His blood
VOICE and from Jesus the Anointed, the Witness who is true and faithful, the first to emerge from death’s cold womb, the chosen Ruler over all the kings and rulers of the earth. To the One who loves us and liberated us from the grip of our evil deeds through His very own blood
WEB and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us, and washed us from our sins by his blood—
WE May Jesus Christ bless you and give you peace. What he says is true. He was the first to rise from death. And he is ruler of the kings of the earth. He loves us. By his own blood [death] he has made us free from the wrong things we have done.
WYC and of Jesus Christ, that is a faithful witness, the first begotten of dead men [the first begotten of dead], and prince of kings of the earth; which loved us, and washed us from our sins in his blood,
YLT and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born out of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth; to him who did love us, and did bathe us from our sins in his blood,
TOP

"King", "ruler" makes more sense than "prince of kings"

MATTHEW 20:25
KJ21 But Jesus called them unto Him and said, “Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
ASV But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them.
AMP But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles have absolute power and lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them [tyrannizing them].
AMPC And Jesus called them to Him and said, You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men hold them in subjection [tyrannizing over them].
BRG But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
CSB Jesus called them over and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those in high positions act as tyrants over them.
CEB But Jesus called them over and said, “You know that those who rule the Gentiles show off their authority over them and their high-ranking officials order them around.
CJB But Yeshua called them and said, “You know that among the Goyim, those who are supposed to rule them become tyrants, and their superiors become dictators.
CEV But Jesus called the disciples together and said: You know that foreign rulers like to order their people around. And their great leaders have full power over everyone they rule.
DARBY But Jesus having called them to [him], said, Ye know that the rulers of the nations exercise lordship over them, and the great exercise authority over them.
DLNT But Jesus, having summoned them, said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles are lording-over them, and the great ones are exercising-authority-over them.
DRA But Jesus called them to him, and said: You know that the princes of the Gentiles lord it over them; and they that are the greater, exercise power upon them.
ERV So Jesus called the followers together. He said, “You know that the rulers of the non-Jewish people love to show their power over the people. And their important leaders love to use all their authority over the people.
EHV But Jesus summoned them and said, “You know that the rulers of the nations lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them.
ESV But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them.
ESVUK But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them.
EXB Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the ·Gentiles [nations] love to ·show their power [lord it] over the people. And their ·important leaders [high officials; L great ones] love to ·use [exert] their authority [L over them].
GNV Therefore Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the lords of the Gentiles have domination over them, and they that are great, exercise authority over them.
GW Jesus called the apostles and said, “You know that the rulers of nations have absolute power over people and their officials have absolute authority over people.
GNT So Jesus called them all together and said, “You know that the rulers of the heathen have power over them, and the leaders have complete authority.
HCSB But Jesus called them over and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles dominate them, and the men of high position exercise power over them.
ICB Jesus called all the followers together. He said, “You know that the rulers of the non-Jewish people love to show their power over the people. And their important leaders love to use all their authority.
ISV But Jesus called the disciples and said, “You know that the rulers of the unbelievers lord it over them and their superiors act like tyrants over them.
PHILLIPS But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the heathen lord it over them and that their great ones have absolute power? But it must not be so among you. No, whoever among you wants to be great must become the servant of you all, and if he wants to be first among you he must be your slave—just as the Son of Man has not come to be served but to serve, and to give his life to set many others free.”
KJV But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
AKJV But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
LEB But Jesus called them to himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those in high positions exercise authority over them.
TLB But Jesus called them together and said, “Among the heathen, kings are tyrants and each minor official lords it over those beneath him.
MSG When the ten others heard about this, they lost their tempers, thoroughly disgusted with the two brothers. So Jesus got them together to settle things down. He said, “You’ve observed how godless rulers throw their weight around, how quickly a little power goes to their heads. It’s not going to be that way with you. Whoever wants to be great must become a servant. Whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave. That is what the Son of Man has done: He came to serve, not be served—and then to give away his life in exchange for the many who are held hostage.”
MEV But Jesus called them to Him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them.
MOUNCE · But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the nations lord it over them, and their leaders exercise authority over them.
NOG Yeshua called the apostles and said, “You know that the rulers of nations have absolute power over people and their officials have absolute authority over people.
NABRE But Jesus summoned them and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and the great ones make their authority over them felt.
NASB But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them.
NCV Jesus called all the followers together and said, “You know that the rulers of the non-Jewish people love to show their power over the people. And their important leaders love to use all their authority.
NET But Jesus called them and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those in high positions use their authority over them.
NIRV Jesus called them together. He said, “You know about the rulers of the Gentiles. They hold power over their people. Their high officials order them around.
NIV Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.
NIVUK Jesus called them together and said, ‘You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.
NKJV But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them.
NLV Jesus called them to Him and said, “You know how the kings of the nations show their power to the people. Important leaders use their power over the people.
NLT But Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers in this world lord it over their people, and officials flaunt their authority over those under them.
NMB But Jesus called them to him and said, You know that the lords of the Gentiles have dominion over them, and those who are great exercise power over them.
NRSV But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones are tyrants over them.
NRSVA But Jesus called them to him and said, ‘You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones are tyrants over them.
NRSVACE But Jesus called them to him and said, ‘You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones are tyrants over them.
NRSVCE But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones are tyrants over them.
NTE But Jesus called them together. ‘You know how it is with pagan rulers,’ he said. ‘They lord it over their subjects. They get all high and mighty and let everybody know it.
OJB But Moshiach, having summoned them, said, You have daas that those who have the rule over the Goyim domineer them like tyrants.
TPT Jesus, knowing their thoughts, called them to his side and said, “Kings and those with great authority in this world rule oppressively over their subjects, like tyrants.
RGT Therefore Jesus called them to Him, and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them. And those who are great, exercise authority over them.
RSV But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them.
RSVCE But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them.
TLV But Yeshua called them over and said, “You know that the rulers of the nations lord it over them, and their great ones play the tyrant over them.
VOICE So Jesus called the disciples together. Jesus: Do you want the Kingdom run like the Romans run their kingdom? Their rulers have great power over the people, but God the Father doesn’t play by the Romans’ rules.
WEB But Jesus summoned them, and said, “You know that the rulers of the nations lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them.
WE But Jesus called them to him and said, `You know that those who rule over countries make their people obey them. The great men will tell the others what to do.
WYC But Jesus called them to him, and said, Ye know, that [the] princes of heathen men be lords of them, and they that be [the] greater, use power on them [and they that be more, haunt power on them].
YLT and Jesus having called them near, said, `Ye have known that the rulers of the nations do exercise lordship over them, and those great do exercise authority over them,

Daniel Marsh said:

The early SDA were arains and saw the Son of God as literally begotten or made by the Father.

One needs only google "early seventh-day adventist pioneers arians" to see all the proof for this claim.

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You need to quite posting things that you have no documentation on. You think you know what the early SDA thought---you do not know! No---they never believed that Jesus was created. When you google that---you also get this:

Both the Arian and semi-Arian positions, however, were decisively refuted by Ellen White in Desire of Ages. (cf pp. 530, 785; see also E. G. White Comments, SDA Bible Commentary, 5:1113.)
Just post the source of what you think you know! Every time I ask that---nobody can post any documentastion for what they think they know!

Matthew 20:25But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.

Revelation 1:5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

These are the only two verses where the word Jesus and prince(s) is used.

Nowhere is "Son of God" prince used in a verse.

I guess these are SDA proof texts,

Daniel 10:13But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Daniel 10:21But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Daniel 12:1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Nothing in these texts that says Michael is God or that Michael is the Son of God.

Hebrews 1 refutes the Son of God or Jesus being an angel.

Daniel Marsh said:

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God

We know exactly who will be speaking here: an angel blows the trumpet, loud voices other than Jesus will be speaking, and I quoted texts that state angels will be with him. I am guessing you do not understand simple English, Greek or Hebrew. Robertson, shows us the grammar of the Greek. From the Greek your interpretation is not even possible.

Revelation 11:15 ESV
Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.”

Show me in the book of Revelation, where Jesus shouts like the archangel?

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Read it!

​

It clearly says the Lord decsends with a shout---He is not mute! It says He shouts with the voice of the archangel---and with the trump of God. You do know that in the original Greek there is no punctuation? Clear----the Lord shouts with the voice of the archangel!!! You post miles of words and they say the opposite of what you think they say!!​

Hebrews 1 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
God Has Spoken Through His Son
1 In the past God spoke to our people through the prophets. He spoke to them many times and in many different ways. 2 And now in these last days, God has spoken to us again through his Son. He made the whole world through his Son. And he has chosen his Son to have all things. 3 The Son shows the glory of God. He is a perfect copy of God’s nature, and he holds everything together by his powerful command. The Son made people clean from their sins. Then he sat down at the right side of God, the Great One in heaven. 4 The Son became much greater than the angels, and God gave him a name that is much greater than any of their names.

5 God never said this to any of the angels:

“You are my Son.
Today I have become your Father.”

God also never said about an angel,

“I will be his Father,
and he will be my son.”

6 And then, when God presents his firstborn Son to the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”[c]

7 This is what God said about the angels:

“He changes his angels into winds[d]
and his servants into flaming fire.”

8 But this is what he said about his Son:

“God, your kingdom will last forever and ever.
You use your authority for justice.
9 You love what is right and hate what is wrong.
So God, your God, has chosen you,
giving you more honor and joy than anyone like you.”

10 God also said,

“O Lord, in the beginning you made the earth,
and your hands made the sky.
11 These things will disappear, but you will stay.
They will all wear out like old clothes.
12 You will fold them up like a coat,
and they will be changed like clothes.
But you never change,
and your life will never end.”

13 And God never said this to an angel:

“Sit at my right side
until I put your enemies under your power.[e]”

14 All the angels are spirits who serve God and are sent to help those who will receive salvation.

This contrast alone between the Son of God and angels is enough to prove Jesus was never an angel.

Daniel Marsh said:

I guess these are SDA proof texts,

Daniel 10:13But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Daniel 10:21But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Daniel 12:1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Nothing in these texts that says Michael is God or that Michael is the Son of God.

Hebrews 1 refutes the Son of God or Jesus being an angel.

Click to expand...

Daniel 10:21But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

If you want an angel as a prince over you---go right ahead. I do not. Jesus is my prince. He is my King of Kings and Lord of Lords. You are free to choose anyone you want to be over you. I choose Michael, the archangel---He is Captain of the Host and angel of the Lord and the sacrcificial Lamb.