{MOVED} will Christians be taken away to Jesus before the mark of the beast is here

jasonMalloy1999 said:

im confused

Click to expand...

The mark probably is a reference to loyalty to the Roman emperor, in the 3rd century this was quite literal in the form of the Decian libellus.

So this is important: The mark is not something like a microchip, a card, a bardcode, or a tattoo, some sort of covert thing that you might then accidentally get and then oopsie doodle, God doesn't like you anymore. The mark, at the end of the day, refers to an act of deliberate loyalty and allegiance and worship of the beast who came out of the sea. I, like many others, believe that the Beast is a reference to Nero in particular, and perhaps more broadly to Roman imperial power (see later to the beast upon which the city of Rome, personified as Babylon the harlot, rides upon).

That is to say, anyone trying to scare you or anyone else about this or that being the "mark of the beast" is selling a bag of flatulence, don't buy it, it stinks.

Secondly, the return of the Lord isn't about Him taking us up into heaven, but about Him coming here to set all things to rights. When the Lord returns, we read in 1 Corinthians 15 and in 1 Thessalonians 4, the dead will rise, and we shall be transformed, even as Paul also says in Philippians 3, that at Christ's coming He shall change our lowly bodies to be like His glorified body. Christ returns in glory, as judge of all flesh, the dead are raised, and then God makes all things new.

It's not about us escaping earth, it's about Jesus coming in judgment and the healing, renewal, and the restoration of all creation. It is a glorious, hopeful thing we look forward to. Our blessed hope is the return of our Lord from heaven, and the glorious resurrection of our bodies. For the Day is coming when God will be all in all, and every tear will be wiped away. The leaves of the tree of life will be healing to the nations, and the very Uncreated Light of God will illuminate all of creation.

-CryptoLutheran

Just for the sake of clarity, this is how most Christians, both historically and today, understand the general outline of history going forward to the Eschaton:



-CryptoLutheran

I would say that argument is as old as the church but that actually is not the case. It may be as old as 400 years but not much more than that. My personal thought on that is this. If I am here God will grant me His strength to be victorious. Jesus said Lo, I am with you always even to the end of the age. That is a comforting thought. If the Pretrib or midtrib eschatolay is correct then great. My hope is in the Lord.

/nvm

/nvm

CaspianSails said:

I would say that argument is as old as the church but that actually is not the case. It may be as old as 400 years but not much more than that. My personal thought on that is this. If I am here God will grant me His strength to be victorious. Jesus said Lo, I am with you always even to the end of the age. That is a comforting thought. If the Pretrib or midtrib eschatolay is correct then great. My hope is in the Lord.

Click to expand...

So those in Christ are only to like NEW arguments??? Yeah, right! Pull my other finger and it plays Jingle Bells.

What the early 1st century Church Fathers taught is still... valid today. They saw a trial for the Church at the end of this world just prior to Christ's 2nd coming. And they believed in a literal, physical return of Jesus back to this earth, as written. That trial is about the time of "great tribulation" Jesus warned His Church about, showing that His return and gathering of His saints would be AFTER that tribulation (Matthew 24; Mark 13).

The theory that the Church is raptured prior to the great tribulation is an idea that began in the Church in 1830's Great Britain via Edward Irving and John Darby. That was the first time in history any such idea as a pre-tribulational rapture was taught in any Christian Church, and this fact is confirmed even by their pre-trib scholars.

/nvm

/nvm

/nvm

/nvm

jasonMalloy1999 said:

im confused

Click to expand...

I am not surprised. The Bible says there will be a strong delusion on the earth to take the mark of the beast.

The reason I question the microchip is how else could regulate who buys and sells worldwide. I would strongly urge you, inspire you to stand strong against the beast and his mark. The Amish think the computer chip is the mark of the beast. They have been putting microchips in animals for along time. Also the microchip works best on hand or forehead, coincidence. I don't believe in coincidence.

Douggg said:

The answer is yes.

Click to expand...

No.


Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

The New Covenant: Bob George

.

BABerean2 said:

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

The New Covenant: Bob George

.

Click to expand...

^^^^^^^^New Covenant theology group battle with dispensationalsim theology group played out in this forum by Bab2. I do not wish to be dragged into that battle, as I am of neither group.

The two theologies are in this forum. General Theology

Irrespective of the two groups battling one another, my chart shows the timing window for the Rapture.

jasonMalloy1999 said:

im confused

Click to expand...

JL: There will be no rapture till Christ returns the 2nd and only time at the end of time, as 1Thes4:14-18 teaches.

[1Thes4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.]

According to 1Thes4:16, not some but the dead IN CHRIST are resurrected, raptured=caught up. That would be those IN CHRIST from Adam through those alive IN CHRIST at His coming, this is the last day. Those in Christ, saved, will ever be with the Lord verse 17. Later unbelievers are resurrected then the white throne judgment. Followed by the bride=Church=new Jerusalem coming down from heaven on the new earth.

[Rev21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.]

Broken Fence said:

I am not surprised. The Bible says there will be a strong delusion on the earth to take the mark of the beast.

The reason I question the microchip is how else could regulate who buys and sells worldwide. I would strongly urge you, inspire you to stand strong against the beast and his mark. The Amish think the computer chip is the mark of the beast. They have been putting microchips in animals for along time. Also the microchip works best on hand or forehead, coincidence. I don't believe in coincidence.

Click to expand...

Considering how wrong the religious leaders were about Jesus and his arrival and the signs He showed them...

What if the "mark of the beast" is actually not wearing a mask during this pandemic?

"Love one another" is a basic command.

But those without masks can infect hundreds at a time...all for the sake of their comfort. As if that matters more than the lives around them.

Just a thought.

The 144k were sealed by God for a purpose.

The mark 666 is a brand every human carries with them. When it shows up on your forehead, you have expired, as in rotten to the core. The purpose of the mark is the opposite of being blessed by God. It means you decided your own fate in the lake of fire, and means you are proud to be cursed by a God, whom, Satan already convinced you, is not worth the time of day. God just let you have your own way.

Timtofly said:

The 144k were sealed by God for a purpose.

The mark 666 is a brand every human carries with them. When it shows up on your forehead, you have expired, as in rotten to the core. The purpose of the mark is the opposite of being blessed by God. It means you decided your own fate in the lake of fire, and means you are proud to be cursed by a God, whom, Satan already convinced you, is not worth the time of day. God just let you have your own way.

Click to expand...

That is very interesting. Have never heard that before, thank you for sharing.

Broken Fence said:

They have been putting microchips in animals for along time. Also the microchip works best on hand or forehead, coincidence. I don't believe in coincidence.

Click to expand...

The right hand and forehead reference in relation to the mark of the beast could be a reference to the body temperature in those locations. I recall reading a article about this.

The answer to the question of this thread is below.

We find those under the blood of the Lamb in the verse below.
A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ.

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

The Capital "C" Church as we use the word today is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found.


.

alertandawake said:

The right hand and forehead reference in relation to the mark of the beast could be a reference to the body temperature in those locations. I recall reading a article about this.

Click to expand...

The use of the forehead and right hand as places that are marked as a sign goes back to the Torah, in which God commands the Israelites to wear His Torah as frontlets between their eyes and upon their right hands, which is the basis for the historic Jewish practice of wearing teffilin or "phylacteries, small boxes which contain written portions of the Torah. In its meaning it has to do with the Jewish people being marked and sealed by God with the Torah.

Likewise, the seal of God in the Revelation which is set upon the foreheads of the elect is again this kind of mark or seal, which sets apart God's people as belonging to Him. Compare with Ephesians 1:13 which tells us that we've been sealed with the Holy Spirit.

The mark of the beast is like these, it represents one's loyalties and allegiance to the beast. In the same way that the seal of God upon us isn't literal mark upon our body (though we truly were sealed with the Holy Spirit through our Baptism and faith in the Gospel), it wouldn't be accurate to say that the beast's mark is a literal mark--something etched upon the flesh or a brand or some such thing. It is a statement of belonging and possession. Though, in antiquity, there was a very real example of this kind of loyalty existing in physical form, during the reign of Emperor Decius a law was passed which made it mandatory for every person in the Roman Empire to offer incense to the emperor and to demonstrate worship to the gods, doing this gave a literal certificate of compliance known as a libellus, without the libellus one faced persecution--being fined, imprisonment, even death. It was a loyalty test with a loyalty certificate. So in this instance, the mark was, in a sense, very literal--one needed to demonstrate loyalty to Rome by engaging in pagan worship and sacrifice, doing so sealed you as loyal with the libellus; to refuse made you unloyal and an enemy of the state.

-CryptoLutheran