Submission and obedience.

Junia · May 25, 2020

LaBèlla said:
Offense inhibits transparency. You'll have difficulty sharing if the person is excitable and reacts negatively to your admissions. Healthy discourse includes varying degrees of difference. Few agree on everything.

~Bella

not your views, jsut the views of those who believe in staying in bad marriages because God said to. we live in the modern age now a lot that was then does not apply now

i was expectign to find more modern views on this forum. maybe some modern day type christians who have similar views to me..... where have the liberal feminsits gone????

bèlla · May 25, 2020

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:
i am thinking of leaving CF. the views on here are very traditional and old fashioned and the kind of thing i tried to leave behind

You don't have to leave.

I received unkind comments in the past when I acknowledged I returned to God in a Conservative synagogue. But a kind soul encouraged me to remain. They appreciated my contributions. I've heard the same from others.

Religion and politics often inspire poor behavior. The Holy Spirit told me to avoid topics that weren't edifying. He doesn't want me arguing or having knock down debates. I'm His lady.

I'm going to make a similar suggestion on your behalf. You're trying to heal. Don't hinder your progress by engaging harmful subjects. You don't have to apologize, explain or defend yourself. You're not on trial. Allow the Lord to order your steps.

You'll know when you've heard a word from Him through another. It will resonate with your spirit. Don't pay heed to things that destroy what He's building. Cast them aside.

~Bella

Junia · May 25, 2020

LaBèlla said:
You don't have to leave.

I received unkind comments in the past when I acknowledged I returned to God in a Conservative synagogue. But a kind soul encouraged me to remain. They appreciated my contributions. I've heard the same from others.

Religion and politics often inspire poor behavior. The Holy Spirit told me to avoid topics that weren't edifying. He doesn't want me arguing or having knock down debates. I'm His lady.

I'm going to make a similar suggestion on your behalf. You're trying to heal. Don't hinder your progress by engaging harmful subjects. You don't have to apologize, explain or defend yourself. You're not on trial. Allow the Lord to order your steps.

You'll know when you've heard a word from Him through another. It will resonate with your spirit. Don't pay heed to things that destroy what He's building. Cast them aside.

~Bella

Thank you. yeah i have received some very wonderful propehcies frim my church about how once we born again Jesus sees us with pure love. all i felt from that guy telling me divorce was a sin and to stay and suffer was condemnation. i have confessed my sin of leaving my father, i confessed it to God but i think once we sinned we have to confess and move on....we cant change past. restitutio is not required for salvation, that is something God has shown me. only for reconcilaiation and i dont desire that with my father yet.

bèlla · May 25, 2020

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:
not your views, jsut the views of those who believe in staying in bad marriages because God said to. we live in the modern age now a lot that was then does not apply now

God has the final word on a matter. I wouldn't remain in an abusive relationship or marriage. If someone disagrees that's fine. But they aren't dealing with the consequences of that choice. I am.

i was expectign to find more modern views on this forum. maybe some modern day type christians who have similar views to me..... where have the liberal feminsits gone????

Our audience is diverse. Check out the Egalitarian forum. Overall, you may enjoy reading posts from @Paidiske @bekkilyn and @Endeavourer.

~Bella

bèlla · May 25, 2020

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:
all i felt from that guy telling me divorce was a sin and to stay and suffer was condemnation.

The next time you find yourself in that situation the best response is none. Step back from the discussion or that exchange.

~Bella

solid_core · May 25, 2020

Submissive single girls, message me!

I know, no message again.

Junia · May 25, 2020

LaBèlla said:
You don't have to leave.

I received unkind comments in the past when I acknowledged I returned to God in a Conservative synagogue. But a kind soul encouraged me to remain. They appreciated my contributions. I've heard the same from others.

Religion and politics often inspire poor behavior. The Holy Spirit told me to avoid topics that weren't edifying. He doesn't want me arguing or having knock down debates. I'm His lady.

I'm going to make a similar suggestion on your behalf. You're trying to heal. Don't hinder your progress by engaging harmful subjects. You don't have to apologize, explain or defend yourself. You're not on trial. Allow the Lord to order your steps.

You'll know when you've heard a word from Him through another. It will resonate with your spirit. Don't pay heed to things that destroy what He's building. Cast them aside.

~Bella

and i had that lovely vision of that Jesus who comes when i pray and tells me He only looks at me witrh love and redemption.... that is what i need. i gues si was expecting to find christians on here like in my church, none of this works based "you gotta be good enough and never sin" type christianity. my Jesus just adores me

Junia · May 25, 2020

solid_core said:
Submissive single girls, message me!

I know, no message again.

LOL. not my type sorry. not that way inclined,am afraid,. proudly non-hetero too!

Junia · May 25, 2020

LaBèlla said:
The next time you find yourself in that situation the best response is none. Step back from the discussion or that exchange.

~Bella

it is a form of self injury.that is why i do it. i figure am gonna get triggerd anyway so i kind of ask for it. at least then i'm in control? i know. am a sicko.

shineyourlight · May 25, 2020

com7fy8 said:
Well, a man can have an egotistical way of wanting respect. And this is not good . . . not denying himself and taking up his cross daily and following Jesus.

"If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me." (in Luke 9:23)

So, if I am depending on my wife for respect, this can help to keep me weak so I can give in to anti-love things like bitterness and angry reacting and frustration and depression and arguing and complaining.

He needs to be unconditional in his love so he does not get bent out of shape if she in some way does not respect him >

"And I will very gladly spend and be spent for your souls; though the more abundantly I love you, the less I am loved." (2 Corinthians 12:15 > New King James translation)

Jesus says to turn the other cheek (Matthew 5:39) and to bless those who curse us (Matthew 5:44, Luke 6:28); so if I can get upset and downcast and even bitter because my lady does not respect me in some way, this is my fault, and because of my own weakness. So I am disobeying how Jesus says to love, and God's word says "be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might" (in Ephesians 6:10).

And, of course, while I am staying weak in what is not God's way of love, I can easily misunderstand my lady and feel she is disrespecting me, right while she isn't!!

"Husbands, love your wives and do not be bitter toward them." (Colossians 3:19)

So, if I even start to have stuff in me that is getting me bitter . . . already I have this as proof of how I am wrong, somehow; and so right away I need to get right with God . . . first > not first trying to get her to do what I suppose she needs to do.

And after God has me submissive to Him in His peace > Colossians 3:15 > now I can see her the way God's peace has me understanding her, and in God's peace I can be creative and cheerful and encouraging; then I might ask her why she has done something a certain way, and be surprised at how she is thinking in terms of compassion . . . versus trying to please my ego!

But in case she really is wrong, I can first need to be prayerful in God's peace, so I can be encouraging with her by being her good example >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

I mean . . . if I love her, I care about her being in God's love and goodness of peace and joy. So, when she starts to get worried or arguing or negative, I have compassion for her because of how she really is wrong > I don't care about her being my puppet; I want her to obey me by doing what Jesus has her doing with His rest for her soul; so if she starts complaining and raising her voice and worrying and hurrying and scurrying, I need to be how she needs to become, so my example can help her, and she obeys me by obeying my good example.

Therefore, then, before I can rightly expect her to be submissive to me, I need to be submissive to God so He has us going the same way . . . because both of us are submissive to God in His peace. And she obeys me by doing what I say > submit to God in His peace, or else you are not obeying me Jesus says if we obey Him, "you will find rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:29)

But there are women who disobey how Jesus would care for us and guide us in rest for our souls. And their husbands who love them tell them to submit to Jesus so they have rest for their souls; yet, they keep on wasting themselves because they have an un-subject character, not capable of submission to Jesus and not capable of mutual submission in a close sharing and caring relationship >

"submitting to one another in the fear of God." (Ephesians 5:21)

And they will scream how they don't want to be slaves, when really they are in slavery to how their own egos are not able to obey God in His peace.

But our basic Christian calling includes >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

So, there are women who abuse themselves . . . by even trusting and obeying their worry which so lies to them and abuses and degrades them. They accept such deep and cruel abuse, while screaming how no man is going to make them a slave!!

I said all that you said in my post

So, I don't disagree with you at all. I feel like you should read my whole post before responding to one part.

bèlla · May 25, 2020

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:
it is a form of self injury.that is why i do it. i figure am gonna get triggerd anyway so i kind of ask for it. at least then i'm in control? i know. am a sicko.

Are you testing your response? Wondering if you can handle it? I don't think you're sick. Healing has many stages and exposure is part of the process. One of the ways we know we've healed is our reaction to phenomenon that would upset or hurt us in the past. We're unfazed.

In the past I've used music as a safe haven for personal expression. I created a thread for my friends to have a place to laugh, cry, vent, etc. Not through words. The music gave voice to our feelings. We included the lyrics too. It was meant to combat negative responses to painful events. But also to celebrate the good ones with those we loved.

That togetherness was beautiful to witness. We shared each others ups and downs. And acknowledged the love we felt for one another. The "love" was good. Some people do the same through journaling or another activity that allows them to emote without harming themselves.

You may benefit from the same.

~Bella

shineyourlight · May 25, 2020

Paidiske said:
I see this claim often made, but I've never seen anything substantial to back it. No woman is going to thrive if she's "loved" but disrespected, and no man is going to thrive if he's "respected" but not loved. Real love comes with respect for the other.

Absolutely. Which I said in the rest of my post

No! There is not hierarchy in the Trinity. The Athanasian Creed explicitly rejects that. The three persons are completely co-equal.

You are absolutely correct in that. I think I misused the word. What I meant is there are different things the Trinity does, different role. They are absolutely equal. I should probably edit that statement, haha.

Junia · May 25, 2020

LaBèlla said:
Are you testing your response? Wondering if you can handle it? I don't think you're sick. Healing has many stages and exposure is part of the process. One of the ways we know we've healed is our reaction to phenomenon that would upset or hurt us in the past. We're unfazed.

In the past I've used music as a safe haven for personal expression. I created a thread for my friends to have a place to laugh, cry, vent, etc. Not through words. The music gave voice to our feelings. We included the lyrics too. It was meant to combat negative responses to painful events. But also to celebrate the good ones with those we loved.

That togetherness was beautiful to witness. We shared each others ups and downs. And acknowledged the love we felt for one another. The "love" was good. Some people do the same through journaling or another activity that allows them to emote without harming themselves.

You may benefit from the same.

~Bella

sick as in i ahve CPTSD which is a brian damage from trauma. and also BPD/EUPD, OCD etc am neurodiverse basically. been in hospital a lot with MH issues. started physicaly self harming as a small child then went on and on. overdoses, burning, cutting, eating diosrder. i love music that was actually my first career. but they put me on a medcation which affects my movements and voice so i cant do that now. i do DBT and something aled mindfulness which helps my thoughts calm a lot. sometimes i pray but i only prys to the Loving side of Jesus. i dont do the harsh angry God, i cut that God out my life a long time ago and my life got better for it.... i only do the Jesus loves me this i know tpe of christinity. i dont do the rest cos am not ready for that helklfire and condmenation stuff yet. i confessed my sisn sto god and received forgiveness but i just want to move on now. forget the bad things i did. i confessed them and i cant go back and fix them....i dont want to see the people i hurt anyway..... i cut them out of my life a long time ago. guilt isnt helpfyul to me... or thinking of hell... every day i tell myself i been saved so am gonna be ok....it blocks out the voices for a while....the voices that sa am a counterfeit believer. i will do anythign i can ti persuad emyself am ok and God approives offes of me....i am ain a church that affirms that and that i sho wi like it. most of my christian friends are very inclusive and just say god forgives everything if we confess it to him which i find more helpful than the "you gota go back and suffer" mentality

Junia · May 25, 2020

i believe Jesus made restitution on the cross for us anyway. so the only restitution we need ot do is for reconcilaition purposes. and i dont want that. i dont want my bio family any more, i have a new "family" now. and a new progressive christianity which i love.....i

Ashley Amos · May 25, 2020

Tolworth John said:
As always only half of a passage is looked at.
Yes a man is head of the house.
He is, as that head to love his wife, how, as Christ loves the church.
In other words I as a husband am to be self sacrificing in my love of and for my wife.

Meaning a husband must sacrifice himself by dying to himself by no longer following his own philosophies in life but repent and follow Jesus teachings and then teach them to his wife with patience, love and understanding.

But it goes further. The example is of Jesus, who also is part of the trinity. Is Jesus inferior to God the Father?

Yes, because Jesus said my father is greater than I.

Is a wife inferior to a husband because like Jesus she submits to a head.

A husband and wife are not equal in the eyes of God. The husband is the head of the wife and Jesus is the head of the man.

Marriage is a partnership, but the responsibility is the man, when things go wrong it is he who shoulders any blame.

The wife is under the husbands covering, meaning if his interpretation of Jesus teachings are twisted or compromised and his wife follows them out of obedience she will not be judged for that (but the husband will be judged on this)Just like how the husband is under Jesus covering, meaning covered by Jesus interpretation of the word of God.

Marriage is not a partnership in the sense that you both discuss and compromise about how to follow the word of God or what it means. Jesus is one with God through submission and the husband and wife become one through the wife's submission to the husbands interpretation,even if she does not agree with it but accepts it. Just like the husband must follow Jesus interpretation even if he does not agree he must accept it. But Mark 4:20 the good soil are he who hears the word of God and accepts it.

Paidiske · May 25, 2020

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:
i am thinking of leaving CF. the views on here are very traditional and old fashioned and the kind of thing i tried to leave behind

You might like to try the Egalitarian forum before you leave. It's deliberately set up to exclude some unhealthy views of women in particular.

And if you'd like to chat about CPTSD from abuse, and how that relates to a life of faith, and so on, you're welcome to send me a PM; I've walked that road and have some sense of what you might be facing.

Junia · May 25, 2020

Paidiske said:
You might like to try the Egalitarian forum before you leave. It's deliberately set up to exclude some unhealthy views of women in particular.

And if you'd like to chat about CPTSD from abuse, and how that relates to a life of faith, and so on, you're welcome to send me a PM; I've walked that road and have some sense of what you might be facing.

Thank you- have had a peek in the Egalitarian forum and it looks safe. bless you for offering me to send PM as well... it is good to know am not alone....bless you

lovelife34 · May 25, 2020

This is one concept that I don't think I'll ever understand. xD Every Tom, Dick, and Harry speak of this 'submission.' But there are no practical examples given. I feel like a lot of men these days want to replace Jesus with themselves. Can anyone here give me a real-life example of 'submission?' So I can see what you guys are talking about? I mean, give me a real-life scenario that happened to you, please.

Aussie Pete · May 25, 2020

com7fy8 said:
But when Eve got Adam to eat the forbidden fruit, both were punished and the serpent was punished.

So, I would say if a Christian lady is submissive to a wrong guy, this means only if she is doing what is acceptable to God.

And their example can help any disobedient man >

"Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear." (1 Peter 3:1-2)

So, in case a husband is wrong somehow, I see here how God is saying He can use the good example of Christian housewives to win any disobedient person. So, I conclude that God is not going to have a Christian lady doing what is wrong.

And > "without a word" > she has the greater power than a child of Satan does, to say the least.

This is because of all which is possible with God who is good. So, this does not mean some bad thing. God's grace in her is almighty, able to spread God's effect to his character to change him to God's love >

"from the power of Satan to God" (in Acts 26:18).

1 Peter 3:4 shows how God's grace is almighty in her. So, even if he does not change but gets worse, still she is benefiting from how the beauty of God's love in her is "incorruptible" > so she is not corrupted by fear and worry and hurry and boredom and loneliness and bitterness and unforgiveness and frustration and the abuse of lusts for pleasure and excitement.

The real abuse is worry which is such a pathological lier and abuser. And stress is very degrading; but God's peace is almighty to keep our "hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (please feed on Philippians 4:6-7)

So, an obedient woman is first concerned about obeying how God is able to have her character become like this. And He gives her personal guiding about how to deal with a disobedient husband. In case he is dangerous, God can guide her about this, of course. Jesus didn't stay around people where they were getting ready to kill Him, in a number of situations.

Our small fellowship does not condone verbal or physical violence - from either party. Women can be vicious with their tongues. Physical violence is intolerable. We do not recommend that women stay with an abusive husband. Some people equate submission with domination. It's a false understanding.

Aussie Pete · May 25, 2020

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:
Thank you. i dont understnd though why a wife has to stay in the marriage if she is being verbally or physically abused? even if the children are also being abused or witnessing it?? so why can't wife leave? or husband leave if he is the victim?

i just struggle with the idea that divorce is a sin even in extremem cases like this???

PS- glad you also like Joyce Meyer. i love her. found her books very helpful

We never encourage a woman to stay in an abusive relationship. That's not to say that divorce is the only answer. Men abuse for a reason. Christ came to set people free. Men can be set free of the attitudes that lead them to abuse, as women can be set free from the bitterness and resentment that a bad experience can produce (as Joyce Meyer so eloquently demonstrates).

Submission and obedience.

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