If endless conscious torments were true, is God a monster?

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith · Apr 28, 2020

And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode,
He has reserved in Everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example,
Suffering The Vengeance Of Eternal Fire.
• Jude 1:6-7

.

Saint Steven · Apr 28, 2020

@ClementofA
re: OP question:
If endless conscious torments were true, is God a monster?

Answer: Yes.
Only a monster could do such a thing.
The real monster that created such a dogma will answer for it.
As will everyone who stands with such a monster.

ClementofA · Apr 28, 2020

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:
And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode,
He has reserved in Everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example,
Suffering The Vengeance Of Eternal Fire.
• Jude 1:6-7

.

Can you address the points made in post #1 of this thread?

So your opinion is that God is a monster?

And your opinion is that is not a deceitful misleading translation of Jude 1:6-7?

Are you aware of how universalists harmonize Jude 1:6-7 with their belief that universalism is Biblical?

If not, then i suggest a search of the forum here, as that passage has been adressed - many - times.

Stay safe, God bless.

Hillsage · Apr 29, 2020

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:
And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode,
He has reserved in Everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example,
Suffering The Vengeance Of Eternal Fire.
• Jude 1:6-7

.

JER 8:8 "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.

MAR 7:8 You leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men."
9 And he said to them, "You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God, in order to keep your tradition!

0331 anathema
a (religious) ban or (concr.) excommunicated (thing or person)

I thank God that I am anathema from 'the (religious) churches of man', but have a soul that rests peacefully in 'the (spiritual) body of Christ' and HIS many membered CHURCH. A church which crosses all the divisions of denominationalism.

ClementofA · Apr 29, 2020

Thanks Hillsage!

ClementofA · Apr 29, 2020

Universalist responses to the Jude 1:6-7 passage:

Search Results for Query: Jude | Christian Forums

Nine pages of them!

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith · Apr 29, 2020

Hillsage said:
JER 8:8 "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.

MAR 7:8 You leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men."
9 And he said to them, "You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God, in order to keep your tradition!

0331 anathema
a (religious) ban or (concr.) excommunicated (thing or person)

I thank God that I am anathema from 'the (religious) churches of man', but have a soul that rests peacefully in 'the (spiritual) body of Christ' and HIS many membered CHURCH. A church which crosses all the divisions of denominationalism.

Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice,
"If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of The Wrath Of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation.

He Shall Be Tormented With Fire And Brimstone In The Presence Of The Holy Angels And In The Presence Of The Lamb And the smoke of Their Torment ascends Forever And Ever;

And They Have No Rest Day Or Night, Who Worship The beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

• Revelation 14:9-11

.

Saint Steven · Apr 29, 2020

Hundreds of years after Christ the Romish Church, as a compromise with the pagan converts, adopted the pagan rites and customs associated with the worship of Ishtar into the Church as a celebration of the resurrection of Christ - and called that celebration EASTER! Naturally, Easter is celebrated at approximately the same time as ancient Israel celebrated their Passover. But the point is - because of deeply entrenched apostate religious practice, the translators of the King James Bible mis-translated the Scripture according to CHURCH TRADITION instead of TRUTH! We must never forget that the King James version was translated under the auspices of a STATE CHURCH, which Church was even at that time persecuting, torturing and martyring humble followers of Jesus who dared to resist and denounce its apostasy and shame.

Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

Saint Steven · Apr 29, 2020

No other book that was ever written can be compared to the Bible, which is the Word of God. I am a believer in the verbal inspiration of the Scriptures, and I am not a believer in the folly of uninformed and unenlightened men who by ignorance of the facts and misinformation try with puny human reasoning to tear it apart. There are a great many people who forget their scholarship, however, if ever they had any, and contend for the King James version even when it is manifestly wrong. One thing I should like to say in passing is, that while the Bible is inspired in its origin, you have to be exceedingly careful of two things: FIRST, THAT YOU HAVE THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT; AND THE SECOND, THAT YOU HAVE A GOOD TRANSLATION. Original manuscripts are inspired, but translations are not. To hear some people talk you would think that the good old King James Bible was the one Paul preached from!

Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

Saint Steven · Apr 29, 2020

Phil 1:21 said:
Start a thread on universal salvation.
Be proven wrong via scripture.
Ignore it and start a new thread on universal salvation.
Be proven wrong again.

Lather, rinse, and repeat.

If you've proven that God is a monster, maybe there is something wrong with your scriptures.

Der Alte · Apr 29, 2020

Saint Steven said:
No other book that was ever written can be compared to the Bible, which is the Word of God. I am a believer in the verbal inspiration of the Scriptures, and I am not a believer in the folly of uninformed and unenlightened men who by ignorance of the facts and misinformation try with puny human reasoning to tear it apart. There are a great many people who forget their scholarship, however, if ever they had any, and contend for the King James version even when it is manifestly wrong. One thing I should like to say in passing is, that while the Bible is inspired in its origin, you have to be exceedingly careful of two things: FIRST, THAT YOU HAVE THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT; AND THE SECOND, THAT YOU HAVE A GOOD TRANSLATION. Original manuscripts are inspired, but translations are not. To hear some people talk you would think that the good old King James Bible was the one Paul preached from!

J. Preston Eby the writer, quoted above, does not list any qualifications in Hebrew or Greek in his own bio. Everything he writes about Hebrew and Greek are his unsupported opinion.
.....Greek is now and has always been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking EOB translators, knows the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “aionios” and “kolasis?”
Note, in the EOB, Paul uses “αιωνιως/aionios,” in 1 Tim 1:17 synonymous with “αιδιος/aidios” in Rom 1:20, see below.

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.
= = = = = = = =
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
= = = = = = = =
1 Timothy 1:17 Now, to the eternal [των αιωνων/tōn aiōnōn] King. immortal. invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory unto ages of ages. Amen.
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be D/L at the link above. If anyone chooses to consult the EOB version I suggest they read the preface which summarizes the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.
In 1 Tim 1:17 Paul not only uses "aionios" synonymous with "aidios," in Rom 1:20, but also defines it by pairing it with "immortal" in the same verse.
In 9 verses, Jesus defines “aionios” as “eternal.” Jesus used the word “aionios” 29 times, Jesus never used “aionios” to refer to something mundane which cannot be eternal.

[1]John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[αἰώνιος/aionios]

In this verse Jesus contrasts “aionios life” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”

[2]John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, and they shall never [ου μη/ou mé] [αἰών/aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

See note on ou mé at bottom. In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”

[3]John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [αιωνιον] life.
[4] John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [αιωνιον] life.

In the above two verses Jesus pairs “aionion” with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here by definition means eternal or everlasting life.

[5]John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [αἰώνιος] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.

[6]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

In this verse Jesus contrasts aionios life with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.

[7]John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.

In this verse Jesus contrasts aionios with “shall never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal.

[8]John 6:27
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

In this verse Jesus contrasts “aionios meat” with “meat that perishes.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.

[9]John 8:51
(51) Very truly [αμην αμην/amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ου μη εις τον αιωνα/ou mé eis ton aiōna] see death."

According to noted Greek scholar Marvin Vincent,

● The double negative [ου μη/ou mé] signifies in nowise, by no means. Θεωρήσῃ[theōrésé], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally.
● ④οὐ marker of reinforced negation, in combination w. μή, οὐ μή has the effect of strengthening the negation (Kühner-G. II 221–23; Schwyzer II 317; Mlt. 187–92 [a thorough treatment of NT usage]; B-D-F §365; RLudwig: D. prophet. Wort 31 ’37, 272–79; JLee, NovT 27, ’85, 18–23; B-D-F §365.—Pla., Hdt. et al. [Kühner-G. loc. cit.]; SIG 1042, 16; POxy 119, 5, 14f; 903, 16; PGM 5, 279; 13, 321; LXX; TestAbr A 8 p. 85, 11 [Stone p. 46]; JosAs 20:3; GrBar 1:7; ApcEsdr 2:7; Just., D. 141, 2). οὐ μή is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future.[1]
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000)A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature.(3rd Ed). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
● The combinations with οὐ μή also be noticed as, ουδεν οὐ μή (Lu. 10:19); οὐ μή se σε άνο ουδ ου σε εγκαταιπο (Heb. 13:5); ουκετι οὐ μή (Rev. 18:14). There is no denying the power of this accumulation of negatives. Cf. the English hymn "I'll never, no never, no never forsake."
Grammar Of The Greek New Testament In The Light Of Historical Research
By A. T. Robertson, M.A., D.D., Ll.D., Litt.D. p.1165.

Der Alte · Apr 29, 2020

Saint Steven said:
If you've proven that God is a monster, maybe there is something wrong with your scriptures.

Was God a monster when He, Himself, destroyed or commanded Israel to destroy millions or 1000s of people; old, young, men, women, children, infants in the flood, at Sodom and Gomorrah, and Canaanite cities?

Genesis 19:24-25 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
Genesis 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Numbers 21:3 And the LORD hearkened to the voice of Israel, and delivered up the Canaanites; and they utterly destroyed them and their cities: and he called the name of the place Hormah.
Deuteronomy 20:16-17 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
Deuteronomy 7:2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
Deuteronomy 32:25 The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.

Hillsage · Apr 29, 2020

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:
Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice,
"If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of The Wrath Of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation.

He Shall Be Tormented With Fire And Brimstone In The Presence Of The Holy Angels And In The Presence Of The Lamb And the smoke of Their Torment ascends Forever And Ever;

And They Have No Rest Day Or Night, Who Worship The beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

• Revelation 14:9-11

.

~Wisdom from the Spirit (chapter heading in my bible)
1CO 2:6 Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away.

There is a wisdom that comes, not from the traditions of man, but from the Spirit of truth.

EPH 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us,
5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and made us sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

Your 'traditional' wisdom cuts short the ages He speaks of which were 'yet to come'. Your wisdom makes everything line up as your 'tradition' has taught you to believe. That being 'the age' that Eph 2 was written in, but there are at least TWO more AGES to come. Those receiving a more "mature" ~wisdom from the Spirit do not fall short of a better understanding of your quoted Revelation 14:9-11.

And if you are saved, as I KNOW I am, then just who is He going to be showing His "immeasurable saving grace" to in those coming ages?

I pray he enlighten the eyes of your heart to discern whether to believe the 'religion of men' or "the Spirit of truth" concerning the GRACE that even you/I received "WHILE DEAD in tresspasses and sin", in order that you/I might believe.....GLORY BE TO GOD and the FAITH OF His Christ. :clap:

Hillsage · Apr 29, 2020

Saint Steven said:
One thing I should like to say in passing is, that while the Bible is inspired in its origin, you have to be exceedingly careful of two things: FIRST, THAT YOU HAVE THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT; AND THE SECOND, THAT YOU HAVE A GOOD TRANSLATION. Original manuscripts are inspired, but translations are not. To hear some people talk you would think that the good old King James Bible was the one Paul preached from!

It doesn't take a a 'degree from man' to prove the KING JAMES VERSION was influenced by uhhh KING JAMES. One of my 'KJ only' Holdeman Mennonite patients even had a bit of a blush on her face when I shared that the KING JESUS VERSION would have even been a SMARTER name to give it if you wanted people to believe it wasn't influenced by a MAN....King Jimmy certainly wasn't Queen Janey. ^_^

ClementofA · Apr 30, 2020

Der Alter said:
J. Preston Eby the writer, quoted above, does not list any qualifications in Hebrew or Greek in his own bio. Everything he writes about Hebrew and Greek are his unsupported opinion.
.....Greek is now and has always been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking EOB translators, knows the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “aionios” and “kolasis?”
Note, in the EOB, Paul uses “αιωνιως/aionios,” in 1 Tim 1:17 synonymous with “αιδιος/aidios” in Rom 1:20, see below.

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.
= = = = = = = =
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
= = = = = = = =
1 Timothy 1:17 Now, to the eternal [των αιωνων/tōn aiōnōn] King. immortal. invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory unto ages of ages. Amen.
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf
The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be D/L at the link above. If anyone chooses to consult the EOB version I suggest they read the preface which summarizes the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.
In 1 Tim 1:17 Paul not only uses "aionios" synonymous with "aidios," in Rom 1:20, but also defines it by pairing it with "immortal" in the same verse.
In 9 verses, Jesus defines “aionios” as “eternal.” Jesus used the word “aionios” 29 times, Jesus never used “aionios” to refer to something mundane which cannot be eternal.

[1]John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse Jesus contrasts “aionios life” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”

[2]John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, and they shall never [ου μη/ou mé] [αἰών/aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
See note on ou mé at bottom. In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”

[3]John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [αιωνιον] life.
[4] John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [αιωνιον] life.
In the above two verses Jesus pairs “aionion” with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here by definition means eternal or everlasting life.

[5]John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [αἰώνιος] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.

[6]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
In this verse Jesus contrasts aionios life with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.

[7]John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.
In this verse Jesus contrasts aionios with “shall never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal.

[8]John 6:27
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
In this verse Jesus contrasts “aionios meat” with “meat that perishes.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.

[9]John 8:51
(51) Very truly [αμην αμην/amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ου μη εις τον αιωνα/ou mé eis ton aiōna] see death."
According to noted Greek scholar Marvin Vincent,

● The double negative [ου μη/ou mé] signifies in nowise, by no means. Θεωρήσῃ[theōrésé], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally.
● ④οὐ marker of reinforced negation, in combination w. μή, οὐ μή has the effect of strengthening the negation (Kühner-G. II 221–23; Schwyzer II 317; Mlt. 187–92 [a thorough treatment of NT usage]; B-D-F §365; RLudwig: D. prophet. Wort 31 ’37, 272–79; JLee, NovT 27, ’85, 18–23; B-D-F §365.—Pla., Hdt. et al. [Kühner-G. loc. cit.]; SIG 1042, 16; POxy 119, 5, 14f; 903, 16; PGM 5, 279; 13, 321; LXX; TestAbr A 8 p. 85, 11 [Stone p. 46]; JosAs 20:3; GrBar 1:7; ApcEsdr 2:7; Just., D. 141, 2). οὐ μή is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future.[1]
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000)A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature.(3rd Ed). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
● The combinations with οὐ μή also be noticed as, ουδεν οὐ μή (Lu. 10:19); οὐ μή se σε άνο ουδ ου σε εγκαταιπο (Heb. 13:5); ουκετι οὐ μή (Rev. 18:14). There is no denying the power of this accumulation of negatives. Cf. the English hymn "I'll never, no never, no never forsake."
Grammar Of The Greek New Testament In The Light Of Historical Research
By A. T. Robertson, M.A., D.D., Ll.D., Litt.D. p.1165.

Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

Der Alter said:
J. Preston Eby the writer, quoted above, does not list any qualifications in Hebrew or Greek in his own bio. Everything he writes about Hebrew and Greek are his unsupported opinion.
.....Greek is now and has always been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking EOB translators, knows the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “aionios” and “kolasis?”
Note, in the EOB, Paul uses “αιωνιως/aionios,” in 1 Tim 1:17 synonymous with “αιδιος/aidios” in Rom 1:20, see below.

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.
= = = = = = = =
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
= = = = = = = =
1 Timothy 1:17 Now, to the eternal [των αιωνων/tōn aiōnōn] King. immortal. invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory unto ages of ages. Amen.
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf
The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be D/L at the link above. If anyone chooses to consult the EOB version I suggest they read the preface which summarizes the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.
In 1 Tim 1:17 Paul not only uses "aionios" synonymous with "aidios," in Rom 1:20, but also defines it by pairing it with "immortal" in the same verse.
In 9 verses, Jesus defines “aionios” as “eternal.” Jesus used the word “aionios” 29 times, Jesus never used “aionios” to refer to something mundane which cannot be eternal.

[1]John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse Jesus contrasts “aionios life” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”

[2]John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, and they shall never [ου μη/ou mé] [αἰών/aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
See note on ou mé at bottom. In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”

[3]John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [αιωνιον] life.
[4] John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [αιωνιον] life.
In the above two verses Jesus pairs “aionion” with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here by definition means eternal or everlasting life.

[5]John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [αἰώνιος] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.

[6]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
In this verse Jesus contrasts aionios life with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.

[7]John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.
In this verse Jesus contrasts aionios with “shall never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal.

[8]John 6:27
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
In this verse Jesus contrasts “aionios meat” with “meat that perishes.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.

[9]John 8:51
(51) Very truly [αμην αμην/amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ου μη εις τον αιωνα/ou mé eis ton aiōna] see death."
According to noted Greek scholar Marvin Vincent,

● The double negative [ου μη/ou mé] signifies in nowise, by no means. Θεωρήσῃ[theōrésé], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally.
● ④οὐ marker of reinforced negation, in combination w. μή, οὐ μή has the effect of strengthening the negation (Kühner-G. II 221–23; Schwyzer II 317; Mlt. 187–92 [a thorough treatment of NT usage]; B-D-F §365; RLudwig: D. prophet. Wort 31 ’37, 272–79; JLee, NovT 27, ’85, 18–23; B-D-F §365.—Pla., Hdt. et al. [Kühner-G. loc. cit.]; SIG 1042, 16; POxy 119, 5, 14f; 903, 16; PGM 5, 279; 13, 321; LXX; TestAbr A 8 p. 85, 11 [Stone p. 46]; JosAs 20:3; GrBar 1:7; ApcEsdr 2:7; Just., D. 141, 2). οὐ μή is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future.[1]
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000)A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature.(3rd Ed). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
● The combinations with οὐ μή also be noticed as, ουδεν οὐ μή (Lu. 10:19); οὐ μή se σε άνο ουδ ου σε εγκαταιπο (Heb. 13:5); ουκετι οὐ μή (Rev. 18:14). There is no denying the power of this accumulation of negatives. Cf. the English hymn "I'll never, no never, no never forsake."
Grammar Of The Greek New Testament In The Light Of Historical Research
By A. T. Robertson, M.A., D.D., Ll.D., Litt.D. p.1165.

Again a search will find my responses to those opinions.

For example, here is at least 23 pages discussing Matthew 25, including many on verse 46:

Search Results for Query: Matthew 25 | Christian Forums

Including this thread:

Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

Where you still haven't responded to the last post in the thread, which was mine in response to you.

ClementofA · Apr 30, 2020

Der Alter said:
Was God a monster when He, Himself, destroyed or commanded Israel to destroy millions or 1000s of people; old, young, men, women, children, infants in the flood, at Sodom and Gomorrah, and Canaanite cities?

All people die, that's what they do, whether by God's hand or from cancer or whatever. So what? Do you think that makes God a monster?

How can anyone see that as comparable to torturing anyone for billions of eons, and after that the torturing has hardly even just begun. Ridiculous!

Even merely one person suffering for ETERNITY would make - ALL - the combined sufferings of everyone in the entire history of mortal life in this world equal to next to nothing, like a blink of an eye of pain, like a drop of water in trillions of universes full of oceans.

Perhaps you have not yet come to grips with what you actually claim to believe?

ClementofA · Apr 30, 2020

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:
Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice,
"If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of The Wrath Of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation.

He Shall Be Tormented With Fire And Brimstone In The Presence Of The Holy Angels And In The Presence Of The Lamb And the smoke of Their Torment ascends Forever And Ever;

And They Have No Rest Day Or Night, Who Worship The beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

• Revelation 14:9-11

.

So your opinion is that God is a monster?

And your opinion is that is not a deceitful misleading translation of Revelation 14?

Are you aware of how universalists harmonize Rev.14 with their belief that universalism is Biblical?

If not, then i suggest a search of the forum here, as that passage has been dressed - many - times:

Search Results for Query: Rev 14 | Christian Forums

Compare, for example, this post re Rev.20:

If endless conscious torments were true, is God a monster?

Which replied to you.

Stay safe, God bless.

Inkfingers · Apr 30, 2020

The words translated as Everlasting do not always mean Everlasting (Biblical language often has a spectrum of meaning).

So, for example, the smoke from Edom is said to go up for ever and ever in Isaiah 34:10 ....but I bet you won't find the fire today.

FineLinen · Apr 30, 2020

Inkfingers said:
The words translated as Everlasting do not always mean Everlasting (Biblical language often has a spectrum of meaning).

So, for example, the smoke from Edom is said to go up for ever and ever in Isaiah 34:10 ....but I bet you won't find the fire today.

The forever & evers = aions & aions.

Endlessness is expressed in the Scriptures by the simple phrase " no end " (Lk. 1:33; Dan. 7:14; Isa. 9:7).

The thought of permanence is also expressed in Heb. 7:16, “the power of an endless (or indissoluble) life,” and in I Pet. 1:4, “an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fades not away.”

Now had the Holy Spirit wished to indicate true unendingness or true eternity as the time issue in the punishment and suffering of the lost, He could have used the word that He used in Rom. 1:20 to describe God’s "eternal power and Godhead, " literally God’s “perpetual” or “imperceptible” power and Godhead, one being unable to see to the end of it !

You see, had the Holy Spirit wanted to convey unendingness in reference to the punishment of the enemies of God, He could have used words that plainly denoted that, rather than the words “to the age… to the ages,” "to the age of the ages "to the ages of the ages, " etc., all which plainly denote SPANS OF TIME . -J. Preston Eby

ClementofA · May 7, 2020

David Bentley Hart, an Eastern Orthodox universalist asks:

"First, can the God who either imposes or permits a state of perpetual conscious torment for rational creatures really be not only good, but (as reason and faith alike say he must be) Goodness in itself? And, second, could finite creatures possessed of real freedom (as opposed to a mere voluntarist power of spontaneous movement toward any end whatsoever) actually freely reject God eternally and, by the exercise of that liberty, merit perpetual torment?"

What God Wills and What God Permits - David Bentley Hart

If endless conscious torments were true, is God a monster?

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