THE FALSE TEACHINGS OF UNIVERSALISM - BEWARE!

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FineLinen

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Also consider that God didn’t create Pi, man created Pi as a representation in human language of what he perceived that God made, but possibly for God all those numbers could be summarised as “what is”.

Surely you jest!

Pi - Wikipedia

There is no man capable of devising Pi with its unending digits that cannot be summarized without another digit still breathing down our limited scope!

NOTHING!
  1. Not death.

  2. Not life.

  3. Not angels.

  4. Not powers.

  5. Not the present/ not the future.

  6. No power.
ouden= NOTHING

Romans 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers are able to separate us from the love of God.

(us or them)
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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Surely you jest!

There is no man capable of devising Pi with its unending digits that cannot be summarized without another digit still breathing down our limited scope!

NOTHING!
  1. Not death.

  2. Not life.

  3. Not angels.

  4. Not powers.

  5. Not the present/ not the future.

  6. No power.
ouden= NOTHING

Romans 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers are able to separate us from the love of God.

(us or them)
No jesting, if you search for God in Pi instead of Christ you end up at 2 Timothy 3:7.

Pi is how we can express Job 38 but it’s still another expression in our language of Genesis where God created is from is not.
 
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FineLinen

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By this larger hope, and by it alone, can we accept and harmonize every line and letter of Holy Scripture, its solemn threatenings to the sinner, no less than its repeated promises of life to all.

These threatenings I accept implicitly. They are fully reconciled with the promises of universal salvation the moment we have learned to realize the true meaning of God's judgments and penalties, and have been led by His word to see in "the ages" yet to come His purposes being steadily worked out.

Yes, I believe, because the New Testament so teaches, and all reason confirms it, that to this brief life there succeed many ages, and that "through these ages an increasing purpose runs."

In these "ages" and during their progress it is that God's threatenings find their complete fulfillment for the ungodly; and the many successive scenes of the drama of Redemption are slowly unfolded, and carried to completion.

For God's purpose to save all men once declared must stand firm for ever from His very nature; and to this end it is that His very penalties are inflicted, that in Jesus Christ, one day, all created things may be summed up. And this being so, we who hold the larger hope are prepared fully to believe that there await the sinner in "the ages "yet to come, God's fiery judgments; that aeonian discipline protracted till the will of man yield to the will of "our Father," and till, as in the silent prophecy of the familiar words, "that will be done on earth as it is in heaven." -Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin-

The entire book below

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin
 
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FineLinen

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ps I have to go to work so sorry if I don’t reply more

I cannot even spell the word. What is it?

Lily, have a blessed time. We eagerly await your return to this wonderful "beware".
 
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Nancy2

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Hi all,
I believe that God will save all and I don't act like a devil! But let me tell you who acted worse than devil's and that was people who believed in eternal torment, the inquisitors of the Spanish inquisition, those who persecuted Jews, and Queen Mary of England, who said that as God was going to eternally torment heretics, she would get in there first!!
The truth is "For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ shall all be made alive. Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ, thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence; thereafter the consummation. That God may be All in all. 1 Corinthians 15:23-28.
We rely on the living God who is the saviour of all mankind, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:9-11.
Eternal torment is the hypocrisy of false expressions in where we say that Jesus tells us to love our enemies but He doesn't forgive His!! If you believe now, thank God, not yourself (your works) because He gives you faith as there is no one who is righteous, not one, who seeks after God.
Nancy2
 
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LoveGodsWord

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LoveGodsWord said: The scriptures actually say this.... COLOSSIANS 1:18-20 [18], And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. [19], For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell; [20], And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things to himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. I believe it is your interpretation of these scriptures I disagreed with and you were shown that the context says that the blood of JESUS reconciles all sin and JESUS has made provision for the whole World. The scriptures do not say all the world will choose to be reconciled now do they. This is shown through many other scriptures already shared with you. For example *MATTHEW 25:31-41; HEBREWS 10:26-31; MATTHEW 7:13-27; MATTHEW 24:14.
Your response...
You have the very bad habit of taking scripture out of context. The verses cited above state that God will not forgive them because they keep practicing sin. The consequence of that is that they end up in the LOF. However, you have not proffered any verse that demonstrates those in the LOF stay there forever or are annihilated. Care to take a swing at it?
Well I would say dear friend with all respect that you have a very bad habbit of making lot's of unfounded claims you cannot prove through the scriptures. Where did I say anywhere that the scriptures I provided above do not say God will not forgive those who keep practicing sin? I didn't this is simply a strawman argument your trying to make that no one is making. If you read the scriptures you would also know what the punishments are and the timing of those punishments at the second coming. Yep no more second chances. Are you with me now? They are not sent to the lake of fire to have a warm bath so they can turn to God again. That is simply not biblical. They are sent there for the wages of sin because they chose to reject the free gift of God's dear son and counted the blood of the covenant an unholy thing.
LoveGodsWord said: The WIDE GATE leads to DESTRUCTION ἀπώλεια; apōleia (MATTHEW 7:13) dear friend and that is where we are told the many will be going. Destruction (G684) means ruin or loss physical, spiritual or eternal: - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, perish, pernicious ways, waste.
Your response here...
When God destroys, what does he destroy? What don't you ask yourself that simple question and get back to me.
Well I thought that was obvious in the scriptures and the post you are quoting from. THE MANY that enter in at the WIDE Gate. Read the scriptures [13], Enter you in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:[14], Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads to life, and few there be that find it. *MATTHEW 7:13-14. One way leads to LIFE (narrow way) and the other way leads to death (ἀπώλεια perishing; destruction) the WIDE Gate. You really can't see this? It is in the post you are quoting from.
Like the ones above that I just refuted? Like Matt 7:14 which I refuted?
Hmm What o_O?? Did you mean the ones you misinterpreted? See previous section.
The context is ALL THINGS which includes all believers because all will eventually believe, even if they have to go through the LOF to do so. All things means just that - no conditions, no caveats, no exceptions! I guess you glossed over those parts which state "Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is LORD, to the glory of God the Father" (Phil 2:9-11).For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. It is written:“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.’” (Rom 14:11) Pretty comprehensive isn't it? It parallels perfectly with God's purpose statement.
Well it depends if you like surface reading or not. I like to dig a little deeper. I do agree though that context is everything but you have not provided it to the within chapter subject matter and your viewing the scriptures through your eyes of universalism. I believe you mistakingly misinterpret these scriptuere and read into them what they do not say or teach which is called eisegesis (reading into the scriptures what the scriptures do not say or teach).

For example you look at COLOSSIANS 1:18-20 [18], And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. [19], For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell;
[20], And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things to himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

You look at these scriptures in isolation to the chapters context and try to make an argument to say that all people will be saved right? Yet if you use the method of exegeses which lets the scriptures interpret themselves you get no such interpretation as the one you have provided dear friend. Let's look at the detail and I challenge you to prove what I am saying is not true. To help with the interpretation let's look at and ask ourselves these question and let the scriptures provide the answers ok? 1. Who is Paul's audience? 2. What is the main topic of conversation and subject matter to Pauls audience? 3. What does COLOSSIANS 1:18-20 say and how does it relate to what is written before and after? 4. What is the meaing of COLOSSIANS 1:18-20 in context to subject matter and application for interpretation? Ok let's start..

1. Who is Paul's audience?
COLOSSIANS 1:1-12 the scripture here clearly show that Pauls letter is to well establsihed BELIEVERS in the Gospel of JESUS Christ

............

2. What is the main topic of conversation and subject matter to Pauls audience?
Paul is encouraging these believers in the gospel of JESUS Christ by praying for them v3;9 encouraging them with the hope which is laid up for them in heaven revealed through the Gospel v5; Desires the believers to be filled with the knowledge and understanding of Gods' Word v9 and to be fruitful and walk worthy of JESUS v10 and be strengthened by His power v10; giving thanks to God v11; who has delivered us from the power of darkness and translated us to the kingdom of JESUS v12; WHO WE (notice here this is not in reference to UNBELIEVERS the WE is in reference to BELIEVERS correct?) HAVE REDEMPTION THROUGH HIS BLOOD EVEN THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS! v14 (note again v14 there is no reference to UNBELIEVERS. The application and context is only to BELIEVERS. UNBELIEVERS are still in darkness v11); JESUS is the image of of the invisible God and the firstborn of every creature v15 by who he created the heavens and the earth v16; he being before all thing and all thing consisting v17.

............

3. What does COLOSSIANS 1:18-20 say and how does it relate to what is written before and after? 4. What is the meaing of COLOSSIANS 1:18-20 in context to subject matter and application for interpretation?

Ok we have provided the CONTEXT above and have let the scriptures interpret themselves. this leads us to COLOSSIANS 1:18-20 lets post all of it...

COLOSSIANS 1:18-20
[18], And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Continues from previous scripture contexts and stating further that JESUS is the head of the Church. The BELIEVERS are being dicussed here not "UNBELIEVERS" there is no mention of UNBELIEVERS in the context provided except in v11 where it says UNBELIEVERS are in "DARKNESS" they do not know the gospel of our LORD JESUS Christ. Everthing and all promises in COLOSSIANS 1 are directed to those who are BELIEVERS and FOLLOWERS of Gods' Word.

[19], For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell;

All fullness is in JESUS who is the head of the Church (BELIEVERS)

[20], And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things to himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

NOTE: Having made peace through THE BLOOD OF HIS CROSS by Him to reconcile all things to HIMSELF by him whether things in earth or heaven. Are you following closely? JESUS has made peace through the BLOOD of His Cross for all sin and for all sinners the BLOOD of JESUS is all sufficient. It does not say all men will accept or receive Gods' free gift of GRACE because Gods GRACE we are told in EPHESIANS 2:8 is THROUGH FAITH. Becoming an believer and follower of JESUS. Now let's look at all the scriptures and let it intepret itself without us reading into it. JESUS makes peace through the BLOOD OF HIS CROSS this is the avenue and why the GOSPEL of salvation for all mankind can be freely offered! Now (because of the BLOOD of JESUS who has paid the penalty of mans sin with his own life, BY HIM meaning he can now reconcile ALL THINGS in heaven and in earth through His BLOOD! The good new of the Gospel of JESUS Christ is now freely given to all mankind. Now notice dear friend it does not say anywhere in these scriptures that all UNBELIEVERS will accept the give of God's dear son. Nowhere do these scriptures say this anywhere! Your reading into the scriptures what they do not say or teach. In fact it is clearly written that those who reject God's WORD and continue in known unrepentant sin reject the gift of God's dear son and count the BLOOD OF THE COVENANT an unholy thing and do dispite to the Spirit of Grace. There end is a fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries *HEBREWS 10:26-31. Context matters dear friend and you have provided none.

LoveGodsWord said:Yep and this changes the contextual meanings of the WIDE and narrow Gate how? - Yep it doesn't. Everyone reading today is in the present tense participle. Is God's Word for the dead or the living? The living are always present tense participle.
Your response...
Your ignorance of Koine Greek is telling. I suggest you start studying it lest you continue to draw uninformed conclusions. Few are finding the narrow way when Jesus spoke those words. It can even be concluded that few are finding it in this present church age, however this fact does not preclude the possibility that all will find it in the ages to come which includes the LOF as the present tense participle make no reference whatsoever to the future. You have committed a logical fallacy simply known as overgeneralizing.
On the contrary my dear friend. It is you who have demonstrated you do not understand the koine Greek or the scriptures shared with you earlier. The application is indeed to present tense. The point I was trying to make with you is that these scriptures are present tense for us today. Perhaps you did not pick up on this. Or you believe that these scriptures are not written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world have come and they were only written for those who JESUS was talking to in that time period. For me I believe the scritpures are present tense today not yesterday. You have committed the fallacy of thinking the scriptures application is in the past and does not apply to anyone today. This is not biblical as the scriptures teach all scripture are written for our (the living) admonition.

Hope this help dear friend.
 
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Roy Taylor

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Wow you guys are really trying hard to pound LOVE GOD'S WORD but he or she is holding their own pretty good. Praise God!
Everyone needs to look at those hard scriptures in the Bible and ask themselves, "could God possibly be talking to me?" Don't dismiss them.
What if you are wrong?
Your choice today will have eternal consequences.
God made man in His image for His pleasure. He didn't make us to be gods. He didn't make us to live in our pleasure.
We are to put on the full armor of God and take thoughts captive. We are to resist the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life.

Anyway, go here because I put all these hard scriptures together years ago in one place.
Bible Scriptures Your Pastor Won't Preach!!!
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Hi all,
I believe that God will save all and I don't act like a devil! But let me tell you who acted worse than devil's and that was people who believed in eternal torment, the inquisitors of the Spanish inquisition, those who persecuted Jews, and Queen Mary of England, who said that as God was going to eternally torment heretics, she would get in there first!!
The truth is "For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ shall all be made alive. Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ, thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence; thereafter the consummation. That God may be All in all. 1 Corinthians 15:23-28.
We rely on the living God who is the saviour of all mankind, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:9-11.
Eternal torment is the hypocrisy of false expressions in where we say that Jesus tells us to love our enemies but He doesn't forgive His!! If you believe now, thank God, not yourself (your works) because He gives you faith as there is no one who is righteous, not one, who seeks after God.
Nancy2

I do not believe in eternal torment that is a Catholic Church teaching that is not biblical. Neither do I believe in the teachings of all men will be saved which is also unbiblical and makes a mockery of the death of God' dear son. You may not not live like the devil but this teaching will lead many to do so and to lose eternal life thinking they can live like the devil today and have a second chance tomorrow. There is no second chances according to the scriptures after the 2nd coming of JESUS. God's rewards are with him. Many will find out only too late that they lost everything by following the doctrines of devils *MATTHEW 7:13-27.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Wow you guys are really trying hard to pound LOVE GOD'S WORD but he or she is holding their own pretty good. Praise God!
Everyone needs to look at those hard scriptures in the Bible and ask themselves, "could God possibly be talking to me?" Don't dismiss them.
What if you are wrong?
Your choice today will have eternal consequences.
God made man in His image for His pleasure. He didn't make us to be gods. He didn't make us to live in our pleasure.
We are to put on the full armor of God and take thoughts captive. We are to resist the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life.

Anyway, go here because I put all these hard scriptures together years ago in one place.
Bible Scriptures Your Pastor Won't Preach!!!

Thanks for sharing Roy, Great compilation of the scriptures. Great to see someone that wants to read God's Word for themselves instead of relying on the teachings of others for which there is no safety. BABYLON has fallen God is calling his people back to the pure Word of God. Winner rating was for all the scriptures you provided in your compilation link. Well put together.

God bless.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Good bye ta pante!

God IS the Author & Finisher of the all.

Unfortunately, He is the Source, He is the Guide, but alas He is not the Goal?

Theos IS the Source, Guide & Goal of ta pante.

God is indeed the author and finisher of our faith dear Fine but only to those who believe and follow Gods' Word. How can God be the author and finisher of the faith of "UNBELIEVERS" when "UNBELIEVERS" have no faith? You have dug yourself quite the hole there dear friend. Can you see it?
 
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Nancy2

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LoveGodsWord,
How can you say that believing that God is total love a doctrine of demons? What teaching gives glory to God? That He wills all to be saved and come into a realization of the truth. ( Notice that all are saved first, then come into a realization of the truth). We believe because we are saved, we are not saved because we believe. No one can believe unless the Father draws him, so there is no cause to boast.
I believe that saying God will lose the 99 and worry about the one is the doctrine of demons.
Nancy2
 
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LoveGodsWord

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LoveGodsWord,
How can you say that believing that God is total love a doctrine of demons? What teaching gives glory to God? That He wills all to be saved and come into a realization of the truth. ( Notice that all are saved first, then come into a realization of the truth). We believe because we are saved, we are not saved because we believe. No one can believe unless the Father draws him, so there is no cause to boast.
I believe that saying God will lose the 99 and worry about the one is the doctrine of demons.
Nancy2

Hi Nancy God is indeed Love and Mercy especially to those who are his. God is also a God of justice and judgement and this is the reason why he sent JESUS to die on the cross for our sins and is where we see God's great love for us both personally and collectively. If God was not a God of judgenment and Justice JESUS would have have had to come to pay man's penalty for sin so that we can receive Gods' Gift of eternal life and reconciliation. I see God's love in all of this, don't you Nancy?

God bless
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I barely know who Brennan Manning is. As for the rest, the wages of sin are death, not ECT, and YHWH's plan is to save us from that, not from fictional "Hellfire." I have tracked the word and the concept back to their pagan roots, and no longer subscribe to belief in a place called "Hell." Please be aware that most of the support for "hell" is bad translation ("Hell" is a word not found in the Greek, the Hebrew or the Aramaic languages.), fiction (Dante, Milton, etc.) and pop culture references. Rubbish.

I do not believe in eternal burning hell of the Catholic church dear friend. Neither the second chances of Universalism which I believe are both doctrines of devils. designed to lead people away from God and his Word.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Jesus did come so that All will be saved. Not one will be lost. Every knee shall bow the knee and declare that Jesus is Lord.
There is no scripture that says all people including unbelievers and those who continue in known unreprentant sin are going to heaven Nancy. Those are the lost the end up being destroyed because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing and do dispite to the Spirit of God's grace *HEBREWS 10:26-31; MATTHEW 7:12-23.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Catholic doctrine relies on two source scripture and tradition.
In Catholic teaching on baptism. there is a section on the possibility of those unbaptised being saved, in that there is the normal baptism with water and baptism by by desire: where one wishes to be baptised but through circumstances is not able to be baptised and I think if someone unbaptised dies for the faith. Some priests taught that someone who would have been baptised had he had more time to be informed in the faith would also be included as baptised.
Does this come outside your definition.

in love
Jay

Hi Jay nice to meet you and thanks for sharing your thoughts. Sorry for the slow reply as I have had some catching up to do. Not sure of your question dear friend (it may be because I just woke up) Do you mind letting me know more about what you mean? Definition in relation to? Thanks Jay,

Blessings.
 
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FineLinen

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God is indeed the author and finisher of our faith dear Fine but only to those who believe and follow Gods' Word. How can God be the author and finisher of the faith of "UNBELIEVERS" when "UNBELIEVERS" have no faith? You have dug yourself quite the hole there dear friend. Can you see it?

I disclosed to my precious wife of over 1/2 century that everybody hates me.

Her response =

"Everybody does not hate you David, everybody has not met you yet."

As my search for a new wife continues, hopefully the hole will begin to be filled (lol).
 
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FineLinen

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Paul, an Apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God—and Timothy our brother: To the people of God and the believing brethren at Colossae who are in Christ. May grace and peace be granted to you from God our Father.

We give thanks to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, constantly praying for you as we do, because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love which you cherish towards all God's people, on account of the hope treasured up for you in Heaven.

Of this hope you have already heard in the message of the truth of the Good News. For it has reached you, and remains with you, just as it has also spread through the whole world, yielding fruit there and increasing, as it has done among you from the day when first you heard it and came really to know the grace of God, as you learned it from Epaphras our dearly-loved fellow servant. He is to you a faithful minister of Christ in our stead, and moreover he has informed us of your love, which is inspired by the Spirit.

For this reason we also, from the day we first received these tidings, have never ceased to pray for you and to entreat that you may be filled with a clear knowledge of His will accompanied by thorough wisdom and discernment in spiritual things; so that your lives may be worthy of the Lord and perfectly pleasing to Him, while you exhibit the results of right action of every sort and grow into a fuller knowledge of God.

Since His power is so glorious, may you be strengthened with strength of every kind, and be prepared for cheerfully enduring all things with patience and long-suffering; and give thanks to the Father who has made us fit to receive our share of the inheritance of God's people in Light.

It is God who has delivered us out of the dominion of darkness, and has transferred us into the Kingdom of His dearly-loved Son, in whom we have our redemption—the forgiveness of our sins.

Christ is the visible representation of the invisible God, the Firstborn and Lord of all creation. For in Him was created the universe of things in heaven and on earth, things seen and things unseen, thrones, dominions, princedoms, powers—all were created, and exist through and for Him.And HE IS before all things and in and through Him the universe is a harmonious whole.Moreover He is the Head of His Body, the Church. He is the Beginning, the Firstborn from among the dead, in order that He Himself may in all things occupy the foremost place. For it was the Father's gracious will that the whole of the divine perfections should dwell in Him. And God purposed through Him to reconcile the universe to Himself, making peace through His blood, which was shed upon the Cross—to reconcile to Himself through Him, I say, things on earth and things in Heaven.

And you, estranged as you once were and even hostile in your minds, amidst your evil deeds, He has now, in His human body, reconciled to God by His death, to bring you, holy and faultless and irreproachable, into His presence; if, indeed, you are still firmly holding to faith as your foundation, without ever shifting from your hope that rests on the Good News that you have heard, which has been proclaimed in the whole creation under Heaven, and in which I Paul have been appointed to serve.


Now I can find joy amid my sufferings for you, and I fill up in my own person whatever is lacking in Christ's afflictions on behalf of His Body, the Church. I have been appointed to serve the Church in the position of responsibility entrusted to me by God for your benefit, so that I may fully deliver God's Message— the truth which has been kept secret from all ages and generations, but has now been revealed to His people, to whom it was His will to make known how vast a wealth of glory for the Gentile world is implied in this truth—the truth that 'Christ is in you, the hope of glory.' Him we preach, admonishing every one and instructing every one, with all possible wisdom, so that we may bring every one into God's presence, made perfect through Christ.To this end, like an earnest wrestler, I exert all my strength in reliance upon the power of Him who is mightily at work within me.
 
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Scott Husted

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WILL ANYONE WHO IS NOT BORN AGAIN ENTER INTO GOD'S KINGDOM?

JOHN 3:3-7 [3], JESUS ANSWERED AND SAID TO HIM, TRULY, TRULY, I SAY TO YOU, EXCEPT A MAN BE BORN AGAIN, HE CANNOT SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD. [4], Nicodemus said to him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? [5], JESUS ANSWERED, TRULY, TRULY, I SAY TO YOU, EXCEPT A MAN BE BORN OF WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT, HE CANNOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD. [6], That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [7], MARVEL NOT THAT I SAID TO YOU, YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN.

To be born again only affords you to see, not to enter ...
 
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