Mark of the beast, Anti-Christ and False Prophet Discussion.

Douggg said:

You have that wrong.

The 42 months in Revelation 11:2 are the second half, the same 42 months as in Revelation 13:5.

The next verse, Revelation 11:3, are a different time expression because the 42 months and the 1260 days are not only in different half's, but they are not exact equals.

The seven years are found in Revelation 11 as

1260 days + 3 1/2 days + 42 months (1256.5 days) = 2520 days (7 years)

The seven years are also found in Revelation 12 as

1260 + for the war in second heaven time + the time, times, half time = the 7 years.

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Sorry, but I have it right - exactly as it is written. I think you did not understand what I wrote. OF COURSE the 42 months of trampling are in the second half - that is all but a few days which are in the first half. In 11:1 the man of sin has not entered the temple YET and declared he is God. In 11:1 He JUST ENTERED JERUSALEM so that he could enter the temple. Note: if he is in Syria he cannot enter the temple in Jerusalem; he must first arrive in Jerusalem.

So also is the 1260 days of testifying in the second half. Who showed up in Jerusalem first: the man of sin or the two witnesses? OF COURSE verse 1 & 2 happen before verse 3! Stop rearranging! The man of sin gets there first, and the two witnesses are sent then BECAUSE the man of sin got there then. If the 42 months are the second half, then OF COURSE the 1260 days of trampling are the second half, and the 1260 days of fleeing are the second half, and the 3.5 years are the second half, and the 42 months of authority are the second half.

EVERY Mention of the 3.5 year period of time is the second half.

Sorry, but only people that don't understand John's chronology would try to add times that run simultaneously.

Let's try this again: WHILE the Gentile armies of the man of sin are trampling the city, the two witnesses are testifying. And while the Gentile armies of the man of sin are trampling the city and the two witnesses are testifying, those in Judea are fleeing, and at the same time, are being fed and protected, and AT THE SAME TIME the Beast is using His 42 months of authority. While the man if sin is exercising his 42 months of authority, those who fled are being fed and protected, and at the same time they are still fleeing, and at the same time, the two witnesses are testifying, and at the same time, the city is being trampled. I said that enough different ways you will have to work hard NOT to get it. ANY OTHER THEORY is going to be wrong.

In other word, ALL FIVE mentions of the 3.5 year period of time is the last half of the week.

I will say it yet one more way; ANY theory that attempts to move one of these 5 periods of time into the first half of the week WILL BE WRONG.

Rev. 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. (TIME? The two witnesses show up in Jerusalem just 3.5 days before the man of sin will enter the temple, abominate, divide the week into two halves: that moment in time will be marked by the 7th trumpet sounding. Almost all of their testimony will be in the last half of the week. Their 1260 days will take them to just 3.5 days before the 7th vial that ends the week. They will be killed then and lay dead for those 3.5 days. Then God will resurrection them with all the rest of the Old Testament saints. Note, they WILL BE Old testament saints: the two men that never died.)
(4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. 11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.) (These verses are definitely inside a parenthesis. john takes us on a side journey out of his chronology to show us the life of the two witnesses down the last half of the week. There are problems here: you try to solve them by rearranging John's book. That is a no no. Your theory will be proven wrong.)

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Follow the red letters for John's chronology. It just won't work to rearrange things so the two witnesses testify in the first half. That theory will be proven wrong. ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology to fit, is instantly suspect and will be proven wrong. Therefore, leave the two witnesses exactly where John put them: showing up right after the man of sin shows up in verses 1 and 2.

Douggg said:

John didn't say anything about a parenthesis.

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Do people say "Period" at the end of their sentence? Don't be silly! NO one writes out any kind of punctuation.

"In actual Greek texts from the era when Koine Greek was used as a day-to-day language, Greek was usually written with no punctuation. The words ran together completely, with no spacing or markup."

In other words, they had NO punctuation marks of any kind. The punctuation you do see was added much later by translators. It is not my fault they missed John's parentheses.

ViaCrucis said:

I don't know what a "vaccine microchip" is, vaccines don't require microchipping. I also don't consider this to be a worry worth having, I see no reason to be worried that I would have to be microchipped or be forced to use crypto-currency. These are unfounded concerns.

But, in a purely hypothetical scenario, no, I wouldn't be okay with the government making me, or anyone else, get a microchip anywhere on my body. But it has nothing to do with "the end times", it is purely a matter of individual liberty.

As far as the current resident of the White House goes, I am hopeful that come the November elections he'll be ousted and replaced by a much more competent person--and frankly, just about anyone would be more competent and a better fit for the job than Donald Trump. But no, I don't think Donald Trump is the Antichrist, not in the "end of the world big bad evil guy" sense. I think Donald Trump is certainly an antithesis to everything Jesus said and did and what Christianity stands for; but that's nothing new.



Vaccines don't use microchipping. So, again, I don't see any concern or reason for concern about this. I am in prayer that a vaccine will be developed sooner than later, and that it will be available to the public, especially the most vulnerable, as soon as possible.

COVID-19 is not the end of the world. We've experienced far worse in history than this, by many times over. A century ago the Spanish Flu infected over a quarter of the world's population, and killed 50 million people. This isn't anywhere near that. The Black Death wiped out 50% of Europe. European contact with the New World resulted in the death of as much as 90% of the Native Americans. The world has endured crises far worse, diseases far more virulent and deadly, and has come through on the other side.

This too will pass.

-CryptoLutheran

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I think the whole idea of implanting a microchip in everyone is crazy. The government can’t force people to do it and they would have to have an alternative way of doing business for those without it. I mean can you imagine 326 million people in the US alone having to undergo surgery to get this implanted? It really is quite ridiculous idea, especially since there’s nothing wrong with the way we’re doing business now.

iamlamad said:

It is not my fault they missed John's parentheses.

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The are many translations of the bible. All of the translators missed it?

iamlamad said:

So also is the 1260 days of testifying in the second half. Who showed up in Jerusalem first: the man of sin or the two witnesses? OF COURSE verse 1 & 2 happen before verse 3! Stop rearranging!

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How could I be the one rearranging, when I go by the direct order in Revelation 12:6, then Revelation 12:7-9; then Revelation 12:10-17 ?

1260 days + the war in the second heaven time + the time, times, half time = the seven years.

The 1260 days in Revelation 12 is the same 1260 days in Revelation 11. The difference is way the 7 years are totaled. Revelation 11...

1260 days + the 3 1/2 days + the 42 months (1256.5 days) = the seven years.

The 1260 days in Revelation 11:3 and the 42 months (1256.5 days) in Revelation 11:2 are not exact equivalents. Which is why two different time expressions are used, one verse following the other.
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Furthermore, if the total timeframe in Revelation 12 is the same as the total timeframe in Revelation 13 - then the status of the crowns on the heads and horns would be the same in both chapters - but they are not.

Revelation 12 with 7 years in the chapter -

heads - crowns
horns - no crowns
no mortally wounded/healed head

Revelation 13 with 42 months in the chapter -

heads - no crowns
horns - crowns
one mortally wounded/healed head

BNR32FAN said:

I think the whole idea of implanting a microchip in everyone is crazy. The government can’t force people to do it and they would have to have an alternative way of doing business for those without it. I mean can you imagine 326 million people in the US alone having to undergo surgery to get this implanted? It really is quite ridiculous idea, especially since there’s nothing wrong with the way we’re doing business now.

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You can look up the procedure of microchipping on youtube. The procedure takes little time. Many have already received the chips. They can use it to gain access to their workplace, vending machines, etc. Wonder what happens when they get fired or quit? The government can't force people to get it? Really? Me thinks you underestimate the government. At this point in time the government cannot force chip implantation. They can only make you stay home during a pandemic. I like to read articles on Google Scholar. Also, I find articles through the library on the campus of a major university and hospital.

Douggg said:

The are many translations of the bible. All of the translators missed it?

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No translator is concerned with parentheses. They are concerned with translating. They SHOULD be maybe, but then are not.
I stand corrected:

Rev. 20:5
CJB
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.) This is the first resurrection.
ERV
(The rest of the dead did not live again until the 1000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
EHV
(The rest of the dead did not live until the thousand years came to an end.) This is the first resurrection.
EXB
(The others that were dead did not live again until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first ·raising of the dead [resurrection].
GNT
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.) This is the first raising of the dead.
ICB
(The others that were dead did not live again until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first raising of the dead.
PHILLIPS
And I saw thrones, with appointed judges seated upon them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been executed for their witness to Jesus and for proclaiming the Word of God—those who never worshipped the animal or its statue, and had not accepted its mark upon their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.) This is the first resurrection. Happy and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! The second death cannot touch such men; they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him for the thousand years.
LEB
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.) This is the first resurrection.
TLB
This is the First Resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.)
MOUNCE
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were finished). This is the first resurrection. ·
NCV
(The others that were dead did not live again until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first raising of the dead.
NET
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection.
NIV
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
NRSV
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

This is perhaps the easiest parenthesis in Revelation to spot. I will have to research and see if any of these have found the parenthesis in chapter 11.

iamlamad said:

This is perhaps the easiest parenthesis in Revelation to spot. I will have to research and see if any of these have found the parenthesis in chapter 11.

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lamad, if you are having to research for a parenthesis in Revelation 11 - there never was any written basis for you saying there was to start with.

Please go back to my post #185. The 7 years are in Revelation 11. And also in Revelation 12. The difference is that they are tallied differently. The commonality though is the 1260 days as the first half.

Douggg said:

lamad, if you are having to research for a parenthesis in Revelation 11 - there never was any written basis for you saying there was to start with.

Please go back to my post #185. The 7 years are in Revelation 11. And also in Revelation 12. The difference is that they are tallied differently. The commonality though is the 1260 days as the first half.

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No Basis? Then why do you rearrange the two witnesses and put them in the first half of the week - when in reality they are in the second half?

No, you are mistaken: there is only 3.5 years in either chapter. You don't understand John's chronology - you only think you do. Look, God will have 144,000 witnesses in the first half of the week: why on earth would He need two more? Not a lot of difference between 144,000 and 144,002. This is just an added reason.

The main reason is that God showed them to John just days before the midpoint of the week. They show up in chapter 11: a midpoint chapter. If they were really to testify in the first half of the week, God would have shown them to John before the first trumpet. He didn't: He showed them to John right after the 42 months of trampling; which God told me was the man of sin arriving in Jerusalem with Gentile armies. They came then because HE came then. Throw your theory away: it is error.

iamlamad said:

No Basis? Then why do you rearrange the two witnesses and put them in the first half of the week - when in reality they are in the second half?

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I wrote.... lamad, if you are having to research for a parenthesis in Revelation 11 - there never was any written basis for you saying there was to start with.

I am not going to keep writing the same post (#185) to you over and over. Revelation 12:6-17 is in sequence, of the seven years. Revelation 11, the same seven years are there as well.

You are the one taking Revelation 12:6-17 out of sequence.

Douggg said:

I wrote.... lamad, if you are having to research for a parenthesis in Revelation 11 - there never was any written basis for you saying there was to start with.

I am not going to keep writing the same post (#185) to you over and over. Revelation 12:6-17 is in sequence, of the seven years. Revelation 11, the same seven years are there as well.

You are the one taking Revelation 12:6-17 out of sequence.

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And again I say there IS written basis: I know that John takes the readers down a SIDE JOURNEY outside His Chronology to tell us what happens to the Two witnesses down their path during the last half of the week.

There is nothing magical about post 185: you are in error there too. Why? Because you don't recognize that John used a parenthesis. The truth is, their death comes just before the END of the week, not just before the midpoint as you imagine. You don't as yet know that John used a parenthesis. You solve the problem by rearranging: putting their testimony in the first half, when they only show up days before the midpoint.

Douggg: parentheses are not just my idea:

"Just as there was a “parenthesis” in chapter 7 between the sixth and seventh seals, so there is now one that consists of 10:1–11:14 (between the sixth and seventh trumpets)." (Bible Study: The Book of the Revelation – LESSON 9 « Calvary Bible Church)

"Looking ahead, the second parenthesis, coming between the sixth and the seventh trumpet judgments, reveals what else is happening during the period of time of these trumpet judgments. (1) The "small scroll" (Revelation 10:1-11) (2) The Two Witnesses (Revelation 11:1-14)" (Bible Study: The Book of the Revelation – LESSON 9 « Calvary Bible Church)

Another: "
Parenthesis 2

Revelation 10 v 1 – 11 v 13: Focus on Places" (BibleTimeline)

iamlamad said:

Douggg: parentheses are not just my idea:

"Just as there was a “parenthesis” in chapter 7 between the sixth and seventh seals, so there is now one that consists of 10:1–11:14 (between the sixth and seventh trumpets)." (Bible Study: The Book of the Revelation – LESSON 9 « Calvary Bible Church)

"Looking ahead, the second parenthesis, coming between the sixth and the seventh trumpet judgments, reveals what else is happening during the period of time of these trumpet judgments. (1) The "small scroll" (Revelation 10:1-11) (2) The Two Witnesses (Revelation 11:1-14)" (Bible Study: The Book of the Revelation – LESSON 9 « Calvary Bible Church)

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There is no parenthesis in the text. Saying there are parenthesis's is "commentary" to convey someone's methodology in producing a timeline.

Differently, Revelation 12:6-17 is a straight-through timeline of the seven years. It is not arranged by "commentary". But by the text itself.

Which the first segment is the 1260 days.
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In Revelation 11:3, it does not say... "THEN" I will give power to my two witnesses....as if to follow the 42 months in Revelation 11:2 on a timeline. But "AND" I will give power to my two witnesses.... as additional prophecy.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

The 1260 days in Revelation 11 is the same 1260 days in Revelation 12.

first half
1260 days - Revelation 11:3, Revelation 12:6

in the second half
3 1/2 days - Revelation 11:11
42 months - Revelation 11:2, Revelation 13:5
time, times, half times - Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, Revelation 12:7

Douggg said:

There is no parenthesis in the text. Saying there are parenthesis's is "commentary" to convey someone's methodology in producing a timeline.

Differently, Revelation 12:6-17 is a straight-through timeline of the seven years. It is not arranged by "commentary". But by the text itself.

Which the first segment is the 1260 days.
_________________________________________
In Revelation 11:3, it does not say... "THEN" I will give power to my two witnesses....as if to follow the 42 months in Revelation 11:2 on a timeline. But "AND" I will give power to my two witnesses.... as additional prophecy.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

The 1260 days in Revelation 11 is the same 1260 days in Revelation 12.

first half
1260 days - Revelation 11:3, Revelation 12:6

in the second half
3 1/2 days - Revelation 11:11
42 months - Revelation 11:2, Revelation 13:5
time, times, half times - Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, Revelation 12:7

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OF COURSE there was no parenthesis in the original Greek text: they had not invented any kind of punctuation at that time. Over time, some punctuation has been added by others.

Differently, Revelation 12:6-17 is a straight-through timeline of the seven years.
Let's look:
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Jesus told those in Judea to flee the moment they see the abomination: this verse is showing the moment they begin to flee. Daniel 9:27 tells us that some event would divide the week into two halves. John's shows us 5 mentions of this 3.5 year period of time, two in days, two in months and one in times or years - showing us that these chapters are midpoint chapters. This fleeing will be seconds from the abomination event - so MIDPOINT in the week. (Daniel also showed this 3.5 year period of time twice also, for the last half of the week.) Notice here: where ... that they should feed her ...

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, War in heaven: Still midpoint and after

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. Satan lost the war and is kicked down to earth: Still midpoint and after.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Satan lost the war and is kicked down to earth: Still midpoint and after.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. The brethren overcome Satan by the Blood and by the words of their mouth. They were willing to lose their head rather than take the mark. Still midpoint and after.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Satan is kicked down: Still midpoint and after.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. Still midpoint and after.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. Notice verse 6 "Where they should feed her" and here "where she is nourished." This is speaking of the VERY SAME 3.5 year period of time. These phrases are saying the same thing and tying these verses to the same thought and same period of time. It is STILL midpoint and after.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. It is STILL midpoint and after.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. It is STILL midpoint and after.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. It is STILL midpoint and after.

There is not one hint here that ANY verse jumped backwards in time to cover the first half of the week. Indeed, John does not do that. You really need to learn to trust John's chronology. In short, your theory is bogus.

Douggg said:

_________________________________________
In Revelation 11:3, it does not say... "THEN" I will give power to my two witnesses....as if to follow the 42 months in Revelation 11:2 on a timeline. But "AND" I will give power to my two witnesses.... as additional prophecy.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

The 1260 days in Revelation 11 is the same 1260 days in Revelation 12.

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I agree: AND is there in the Greek texts. It ties verse 3 with the timing of verse 2.

What is the timing of verse 1 and 2. I have said it over and over: the 6 trumpet judgments took up MOST of the first half of the week. It is now (at 11:1) only DAYS before the midpoint when the man of sin will enter the temple. The 42 month countdown will begin right in verse 2, PROVING that the timing of verse two is MIDPOINT. "AND" then continues that midpoint timing right into verse 3 as proven by the 1260 days: they will run PARALLEL to the 42 months. John did not flip backwards 3.5 years here. Verses 1-3 are parallel in timing as of just days before the midpoint.

The 1260 days in Revelation 11 is the same 1260 days in Revelation 12. Agreed: Both follow the timing of verses 1 & 2: just before the midpoint to just after the midpoint (by a second or two) in chapter 12.

Therefore to imagine that ANY verse here jumps back to the start of the first half is error.

iamlamad said:

OF COURSE there was no parenthesis in the original Greek text: they had not invented any kind of punctuation at that time. Over time, some punctuation has been added by others.

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What you should be doing is saying - that as part of your methodology to develop a timeline your are reading the text "as if" there were parenthesis as certain points. And acknowledge that there are no actual parenthesis in the text.

Actually, you shouldn't be mentioning parenthesis at all - because it is building a timeline on a false premise, not actually being in the text - which result in a flawed timeline.

iamlamad said:

Jesus told those in Judea to flee the moment they see the abomination: this verse is showing the moment they begin to flee. Daniel 9:27 tells us that some event would divide the week into two halves.

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No, it doesn't. Daniel 9:27 says in the midst of the week. Not at the midpoint of the week.

Daniel 12:11-12 indicates the Abomination of Desolation will be setup 1335 days before Jesus returns. Setup on day 1185 of the timeline, in the midst of the week, still in 1260 days of two witnesses, at the end of their prophesying time, when the beast make war on them and kills them.
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6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Druing the last 75 days of the two witnesses prophesying, the Jews will be fleeing into the wilderness. As the two witnesses will be battling with the beast - it will likely all be globally televised as it happens.

Who do you think the "they" are? And what will they be feeding the woman?

The they are the two witnesses. Feeding them the Word of God. They do that for their 1260 days, before the beast in his war on them, overcomes them and kills them.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.


Which in Revelation 13, it says (paraphrased) who can make war with the beast (rhetorically)....

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

The beast then rules 42 months, as the nations occupy Jerusalem for 42 months, under the beast's rule.

iamlamad said:

There is not one hint here that ANY verse jumped backwards in time to cover the first half of the week. Indeed, John does not do that. You really need to learn to trust John's chronology. In short, your theory is bogus.

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The 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 does not leapfrog (as you are claiming) the war in the second heaven and Satan cast down to earth, leaving him with a time, times, half time.

It is 1260 days, then the war in the second heaven, then the time, times, half time. You cannot change the order which the text is written. You can misunderstand it, and misrepresent it. But you can't change the timeline order.

Douggg said:

What you should be doing is saying - that as part of your methodology to develop a timeline your are reading the text "as if" there were parenthesis as certain points. And acknowledge that there are no actual parenthesis in the text.

Actually, you shouldn't be mentioning parenthesis at all - because it is building a timeline on a false premise, not actually being in the text - which result in a flawed timeline.


No, it doesn't. Daniel 9:27 says in the midst of the week. Not at the midpoint of the week.

Daniel 12:11-12 indicates the Abomination of Desolation will be setup 1335 days before Jesus returns. Setup on day 1185 of the timeline, in the midst of the week, still in 1260 days of two witnesses, at the end of their prophesying time, when the beast make war on them and kills them.
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6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Druing the last 75 days of the two witnesses prophesying, the Jews will be fleeing into the wilderness. As the two witnesses will be battling with the beast - it will likely all be globally televised as it happens.

Who do you think the "they" are? And what will they be feeding the woman?

The they are the two witnesses. Feeding them the Word of God. They do that for their 1260 days, before the beast in his war on them, overcomes them and kills them.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.


Which in Revelation 13, it says (paraphrased) who can make war with the beast (rhetorically)....

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

The beast then rules 42 months, as the nations occupy Jerusalem for 42 months, under the beast's rule.

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Crazy, the server posted it before I could write anything.

Douggg said:

The 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 does not leapfrog (as you are claiming) the war in the second heaven and Satan cast down to earth, leaving him with a time, times, half time.

It is 1260 days, then the war in the second heaven, then the time, times, half time. You cannot change the order which the text is written. You can misunderstand it, and misrepresent it. But you can't change the timeline order.

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The war will start right after those in Judea begin fleeing. The 7th trumpet sounding will be Michael's signal that its time for war. It may take a few seconds or minutes for all the waring angels to prepare.

Chapter 12: Jesus Himself TOLD me:
"This chapter was me introducing John to the dragon and in particular what the dragon would be doing during the last half of the week. Count how many times the Dragon is mentioned, including pronouns. (a time of waiting while I counted). I CHOSE to show John what the dragon did when I was a young boy. those first five verses were a 'history lesson' for John."
Jesus did not say the word parenthesis but He did say "history lesson" and reading the text we understand that was when Satan tried to kill Jesus as a boy using King Herod. Indeed, it was "history" to John in 95 AD. Jesus was older than John. His birth was before John's birth. Without a doubt, those first five verses are a parenthesis to separate them from John's chronology.

Note His words: "during the last half of the week." This entire chapter except the first five verses are about the MIDPOINT of the week and the second half of the week. Again, there is NOTHING in this chapter that is for the first half of the week. John does not SKIP around with timing.

However, we don't need Jesus' words to me: we can just read the text and KNOW John is at the midpoint of the week.

Other words Jesus spoke to me: "Every time I mentioned and event that would start at the midpoint, I always included a 3 1/2 year period of time: when you find the mentions of the 3 1/2 years, you will be very close to the exact midpoint.

Note carefully His words: "Exact midpoint." There IS an exact midpoint. But you will probably not find out the truth until we get to heaven. Again, we don't NEED His current words: we can know there is an exact midpoint by John twice mentioning a 1260 days period - which is exactly half of the week - proving an exact midpoint.

John's chronology:
Chapter 11 - 7th trumpet marks the midpoint.
Chapter 12: Seconds later those in Judea begin to flee : 12:6
Seconds later the war in heaven begins.

Verse 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9: we don't know the timing of verse 9 because we don't know how long the war will be. But in verse 8 the war is over.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

So the war is over. It will still be just shortly after the midpoint of the week. The next three verses COULD be a parenthesis:

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

These are a quick look towards the people and how the war will affect them. It is going to be a time of WOE.

Now, the emphasis is back to the Dragon:

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

The Dragon immediately goes after the Jews. Now the emphasis flips back to those who fled: They are STILL fleeing, but John gives us more information:

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

She is being supernaturally protected, while out in the wilderness. Remember, NO TIME to get food together, NO TIME to get a coat: only time to RUN. So God will feed them AS they are fleeing. Emphasis goes back to the dragon:

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

God is supernaturally protecting them as they flee.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The chapter ends. All - that means every verse - is in prefect chronology (outside the first 5 verses parenthesis): NO flashbacks, not backpedaling, only straight through chronology starting seconds after the man will enter the temple and declare he is God: the midpoint.
The 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 does not leapfrog (as you are claiming) No, as YOU claim. I claim very linear chronology. Outside of the first 5 verses, John's timing is a few seconds after the midpoint abomination. And His chronology then stays at the second half of the week and stays there to the end of the chapter.

the war in the second heaven and Satan cast down to earth, leaving him with a time, times, half time. No, Satan does not have 3.5 years. The WEEK will have 3.5 years left, proving chapter 12 as a midpoint chapter.

It is 1260 days, then the war in the second heaven, then the time, times, half time. You cannot change the order which the text is written. I have no desire to change it; Changing is what you do. Note carefully, it is NOT "1260 days, then the war: it is the STARTING point of a 1260 day countdown to the end of the week. Those 1260 days do not "happen" in that one verse: the countdown BEGINS there. Verse 7 is not 1260 days later.

Verse 6: seconds after the midpoint the START of a 1260 day countdown to the end of the week.
Verse 7 War in heaven starts at the same time as verse 6 or maybe a few seconds later.
Verse 9 the war is over
Verse 14: those who began their flight in verse 6 are being supernaturally fed and protected.

ALL events are timed for the last half of the week.