How Could God allow this?

ZNP said:

The point that has been made since the opening post is that God is omnipotent, He is omniscient. Nothing happens without His command. Satan is not allowed to attack Job without God's command. The plagues that struck Egypt, the flood at the time of Noah, even the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

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He can command until man finally gets the message.
Man still has the right to obey or not His commands does he not?

I think you are taking the omnipotent and omniscient definitions to mean somehow God has complete control of man or men when He does not. He can look into our lives and know we will eventually soften our hearts to eventually turn to Him---- for example.

I think your are mixing up God commanded with God allows

1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

ZNP said:

No I get that God is not tempting man with sin, but how is that relevant to the context of the pandemic that frames this discussion?

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You said it yourself with this post in this very thread:

And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be humbled; and whosoever shall humble himself shall be exalted. Matt 23:12


Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God 1Pet 5:6----ZNP

And instead of trying to figure out why God does this and why God does that and how this calamity fits in---we should take care of our obligations and humble ourselves.

Guojing said:

How about infants who died, before they could knowingly commit any sin?

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They did not die having committed a sin against any law, for they knew no law. So they are innocent.

Luke 18:15-17 (WEB)
15 They were also bringing their babies to him, that he might touch them. But when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. 16 Jesus summoned them, saying, “Allow the little children to come to me, and don’t hinder them, for God’s Kingdom belongs to such as these. 17 Most certainly, I tell you, whoever doesn’t receive God’s Kingdom like a little child, he will in no way enter into it.”

Blessings

Dave L said:

It says all were constituted, sinners. Adam flunked the test and proved we are a corrupt species.

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Correct, all have sinned. We are not punished for the sins of Adam but for our own sins.

However, if after learning the Gospel we should repent, putting to death the old nature, and then, by faith, live to follow Jesus, then we are saved, and begin a new life in Christ Jesus.

Romans 6:1-4 (NIV)
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

When we commit to do this, the Spirit of Christ indwells us (Acts 2:38; Acts 5:32; Galatians 3:2; Ephesians 1:13-14; John 7:37-39; John 14:15-17; John 14:23).

The indwelling Spirit lead those who commit to follow Christ by faith into a life of love and righteousness. We walk by His Spirit by following Christ Jesus.

Galatians 5:13-24 (NIV)
13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

This is the new creation.

2 Corinthians 5:15-17 (NIV)
15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.
16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore (for this reason) if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

Blessings.

ZNP said:

Thank you for this post. The purpose for starting a thread like this is to get this insight. This is the way to respond. The very question "How could God" denies our own sin. If we follow in the Lord's footsteps, the cross includes humbling ourselves, and serving others. It also involves forgiveness, these racial attacks against Chinese are heinous and need to be repudiated. So thank you for giving this thread a proper response.

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We are all Pilgrims trying to learn. That is why I like Pilgrim's Progress or the book the Edge of Eternity by Randy Alcorn.

setst777 said:

Correct, all have sinned. We are not punished for the sins of Adam but for our own sins.

However, if after learning the Gospel we should repent, putting to death the old nature, and then, by faith, live to follow Jesus, then we are saved, and begin a new life in Christ Jesus.

Romans 6:1-4 (NIV)
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

When we commit to do this, the Spirit of Christ indwells us (Acts 2:38; Acts 5:32; Galatians 3:2; Ephesians 1:13-14; John 7:37-39; John 14:15-17; John 14:23).

The indwelling Spirit lead those who commit to follow Christ by faith into a life of love and righteousness. We walk by His Spirit by following Christ Jesus.

Galatians 5:13-24 (NIV)
13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

This is the new creation.

2 Corinthians 5:15-17 (NIV)
15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.
16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore (for this reason) if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

Blessings.

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Babies die in the womb for Adam's sin. The wages of sin is death.

setst777 said:

They did not die having committed a sin against any law, for they knew no law. So they are innocent.

Luke 18:15-17 (WEB)
15 They were also bringing their babies to him, that he might touch them. But when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. 16 Jesus summoned them, saying, “Allow the little children to come to me, and don’t hinder them, for God’s Kingdom belongs to such as these. 17 Most certainly, I tell you, whoever doesn’t receive God’s Kingdom like a little child, he will in no way enter into it.”

Blessings

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You never came across a statistic, infant mortality?

how do they die physically then, if they could not commit any sin?

Dave L said:

Babies die in the womb for Adam's sin. The wages of sin is death.

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That are welcome to believe what you like. I will stick with God's Word.

Blessings,
Steven

ZNP said:

There have been many different threads which have asked this question about Corona virus. Many of the posters assert that God is the creator of all things (agreed) that He is omnipotent and omniscient (agreed) and that given these criteria coronavirus could not have taken place without His allowing it (agreed). He foresaw it would happen (omniscient), He created it (creator of all things) and He had the power to prevent it (omnipotent). I agree with all of this.

Others, also quoting scriptures point out that God is love (agreed), He is a merciful and good God (agreed), in Him is no darkness (agreed), His thoughts for us are good and not evil (agreed). How do you reconcile these two?

This is commonly known as the problem of evil and is a logical argument used by atheists to deny that God exists. Their argument is that the definition of God is that He is the creator of all things (agreed). Evil exists (agreed). Therefore God created evil (disagree and will explain). There are many ways that Christians try to squirm out of this and they are not scriptural. They make Satan (Lucifer was also created by God) into some kind of powerful being who has the ability to create evil and sin even though he is a created being by God (this does not change the fact that if evil exists, it was part of the creation that God created). For example the Bible says God cannot lie. How then could he create a universe in which there are lies and liars?

Therefore I wanted to open this thread up to Christians so that we could examine the scriptures and understand "How could God allow this to happen?"

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In Scripture, what we are experiencing is referred to as "Pestilence". Again, IN SCRIPTURE, it is written that God DOES NOT ALLOW pestilence. GOD BRINGS PESTILENCE;

-on transgressors.

Exodus 9
14 For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth.

15 For now I will stretch out my hand, that I may smite thee and thy people with pestilence; and thou shalt be cut off from the earth.

16 And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.

Jeremiah 21
5 And I myself will fight against you with an outstretched hand and with a strong arm, even in anger, and in fury, and in great wrath.

6 And I will smite the inhabitants of this city, both man and beast: they shall die of a great pestilence.

Matthew 24
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.


Hosea 4
Hear the word of the Lord, ye children of Israel: for the Lord hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.

2 By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood.

Isaiah 1
2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the Lord hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.

3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.

4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.


1 Samuel
24 Only fear the Lord, and serve him in truth with all your heart: for consider how great things he hath done for you.

25 But if ye shall still do wickedly, ye shall be consumed, both ye and your king.


2 Chronicles
13 If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people;

14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

PESTILENCE IS A WAKE UP CALL to HIS PEOPLE to RETURN TO GOD,

or die.

May God move in our hearts to return to Him,
Lee

setst777 said:

That are welcome to believe what you like. I will stick with God's Word.

Blessings,
Steven

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You need to study Romans 5 and stick with that.

Guojing said:

You never came across a statistic, infant mortality?

how do they die physically then, if they could not commit any sin?

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This is earth, not Paradise. We all live in corrupted flesh, and we will all die. God promises suffering and death to all people on this earth, including those who are innocent. All living things on earth eventually die.

In the Heavenly Kingdom that will all change for those who remain faithful now in times of turmoil, temptations and sufferings.

Some die earlier of a number of causes - diseases, accidents, crime, drugs, abuse, and some die much later, but that is not God's fault. What matters is, whatever time we do have, we are responsible to be ready when He comes for us.

Luke 21:34-36 (WEB)
34 “So be careful, or your hearts will be loaded down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day will come on you suddenly. 35 For it will come like a snare on all those who dwell on the surface of all the earth. 36 Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Babies are innocent, but like all people, they will die. Some babies never get the opportunity to live a full life on earth, but they also escape the struggles of this life, and are guaranteed a place in God's Heavenly Kingdom, because they are innocent.

Blessings

Dave L said:

You need to study Romans 5 and stick with that.

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I quoted Romans 5 in my post to you. You quoted nothing.

What you want to do is pit Scripture against itself by taking quotes out of context, never mind how the Scriptures explain it, and then you supply your own biased meaning as if you were far more intelligent then God, and are far more knowledgeable, then what God plainly teaches in His Word.

Blessings.

setst777 said:

I quoted Romans 5 in my post to you. You quoted nothing.

What you want to do is pit Scripture against itself by taking quotes out of context, never mind how the Scriptures explain it, and then you supply your own biased meaning as if you were far more intelligent then God, and are far more knowledgeable, then what God plainly teaches in His Word.

Blessings.

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You need to dig into it. You're missing Paul's meaning of imputation.

Dave L said:

You need to dig into it. You're missing Paul's meaning of imputation.

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Nothing was missed. I quoted the Scripture, and quoted other parts of that very same letter that Paul wrote to the Romans to show what is actually meant.

While our Bibles put chapters into Epistle (letter) to the Romans, the whole letter was meant to be read as one letter explaining everything in context.

What you want to do is separate a verse from its context and supply your own meaning that is foreign to what Paul actually taught in that letter.

Blessings,
Steven

setst777 said:

Nothing was missed. I quoted the Scripture, and quoted other parts of that very same letter that Paul wrote to the Romans to show what is actually meant.

While our Bibles put chapters into Epistle (letter) to the Romans, the whole letter was meant to be read as one letter explaining everything in context.

What you want to do is separate a verse from its context and supply your own meaning that is foreign to what Paul actually taught in that letter.

Blessings,
Steven

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You missed Paul's entire purpose for writing Romans 5.

Dave L said:

You missed Paul's entire purpose for writing Romans 5.

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So you say. You are welcome to remain in your bias, but you only harm yourself by doing so.

Blessings