What is God's Role in the Current Pandemic?

2PhiloVoid said:

Well, that is one HUGE difference between you and me. I NEVER assume that just because someone else discontinues a discussion with me that they're conceding anything. Silence isn't Golden, and neither is it ever really a concession to anything, ever.

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Here's the difference between [you] and I. You did not opt to simply no longer respond at all. You responded, but opted to evade, avoid, go-around presented points. And to only address the last, which was 'prayer.'

In all honesty, I ask you... Do you now concede the dichotomy, as presented, or not? Remember, this is a debate forum. Nothing more. I trust I do not need to re-attach the purpose of this arena. See below.

2PhiloVoid said:

I'm done today with your goading. Remember back when you first started on CF? I referenced a book, one that I think I've in fact referenced to you more than once. If you can't 'count' THAT as my answer, and if you simply don't do so because you don't want to engage in it, then THAT is on you, not me.

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If you wish to mistake 'goading' with mere observation; followed by explanation and example, then that's on you.

I honestly cannot recall conversation, from 1,000's of posts ago, per se. But I will tell you this... I did not sign up for a 'book club.' If this is what you perceive the apologetics forum arena to be, then maybe I do need to provide the purpose of this forum?

If you have specific points, make them; and back them up. If you instead wish to bow out, change the subject, go off tangent, expect that the engaged person engage you in entire books, 'line-by-line', all I can say is... 'Good luck with that'

(i.e.)
Person 1: 'I don't believe Muhammad ascended to heaven, because of the lack in evidence to support the claim, along side the fact that the book seems to make some claims which conflict with my perceived reality, rendering this book of claims less than fully accurate for me. Hence, it's doubtful it is word from such a claimed god"

Person 2: "Well, that's because you have not read this entire book, and discussed it with me line by line. Maybe if you start by re-reading the Qur'an, over and over again, it will finally make sense, and you will believe.'

How about instead... Deliver your strongest point(s), and await rebuttal, or lack there-of? In the end, you either agree to disagree and move on, or, concede the point and move on accordingly.

2PhiloVoid said:

You've been given multiple answers from me multiple times, most of which you never engage because of your own amateurish philosophical predilections that you think you can hide behind, predilections that typically revolve around your own hobby of collecting and distributing what you think are various contradictions, dilemmas, inconsistencies and other epistemic paraphernalia which you think you've found in either the Bible or in various Christian's assertions, paraphernalia that Sarcastic Skeptics love to then use as ammo in just about any pseudo-argument they contrive from within the confines of their spiritually fractured minds.

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Demonstrate. Let's simply start with prayer.

You seem to suggest that you sometimes implement petitionary/intercessory prayer. Whether it be for this, that, or the other. If this is the case [for you], then this means you are expecting that God might act upon your request. Which is to say, at some point, God would have to change His prior will, to instead fulfill your alternative/differing request.

2PhiloVoid said:

So, until you're ready to engage ENTIRE books of material with me and discuss them, in detail, line by line, sentence by sentence, concept by concept, then back off, and just don't ask me any more questions.

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Please see above

2PhiloVoid said:

Last thing: when I said "I'm preparing my mind for what might be a less than favorable outcome," I wasn't talking about what may happen or not happen to anyone else. I was referring to the fact that, in the specific context of the viral crisis, I don't expect any special treatment for myself from the Lord....which basically falls in line what my own understanding about the 'purpose' of prayer, one which I've been stating to you ever since you first signed up on CF almost two years ago, but which you've refused to engage, let alone heed.

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None of this addresses my prior responses. Further, if you are expecting full memory, from every exchange, please then recall, when I called you an 'enigma.'

Again, does God ever fulfill petitionary/intercessory prayer? Yes or no? I trust you will find either answer brings heartburn, for the claimant And maybe this is why I see 'navigation'?

God's role in this pandemic is in our stepping up and helping each other.

dlamberth said:

God's role in this pandemic is in our stepping up and helping each other.

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Is this what He told you, or is this just an assumption?

cvanwey said:

Is this what He told you, or is this just an assumption?

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God works through the Human Heart through Love, Empathy and Compassion. So for this Lover of God when working through the Heart while serving those in need is how God is made a reality in ones life. That's how God works, which is through people.

dlamberth said:

God works through the Human Heart through Love, Empathy and Compassion. So for this Lover of God when working through the Heart while serving those in need is how God is made a reality in ones life. That's how God works, which is through people.

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I'm afraid this does not really answer the question posed to you. In regards to the current pandemic, did God actually inform you of the reason, or, are you merely applying a rationalization, assumption, hope, wish, or other? Because I don't recall any holy text stating "God allows viral epidemics to run rampant to bring together communities?"

And in response to your response, if one of your closest loved ones should contract this virus, at it's worst, will you still be preaching the following above?

cvanwey said:

I'm afraid this does not really answer the question posed to you. In regards to the current pandemic, did God actually inform you of the reason, or, are you merely applying a rationalization, assumption, hope, wish, or other? Because I don't recall any holy text stating "God allows viral epidemics to run rampant to bring together communities?"

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I'm just responding to the "or something else?" part of the OP. But also, I'm unable to separate viruses from the spark of Life that you, me and all of us are all a part of. So I think the wrong question is being asked. I don't believe it has anything to do with God "allowing" viruses to run amuck. I think it has everything to do with the earth being out of balance with so many people running around on it.

At the same time, people are suffering. And it's in the suffering that Love, empathy and compassion touches the Human Heart. I know I've cried more than a few tears when seeing war casualties of the innocent. For a Lover of God though, their able to direct all of that into Love for God where God becomes a reality as they reach out in their Service to those in need. That's where I see God's place in this. It's an observation.

And in response to your response, if one of your closest loved ones should contract this virus, at it's worst, will you still be preaching the following above?

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Absolutely. We become more human as Human Beings when we help those in need with Love and Empathy and Compassion. And when it's a person's own family, that Love is even more prevalent and active with in oneself. For example, when you look at Love, there's a lot in it, including all of the emotions, feelings and thoughts that run through a person when a family member is struck by something like this virus.

Clizby WampusCat said:

So as usual God stands by and lets scientists, doctors, nurses, everyday people do the work.

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I think God is in there fully and Lovingly engaging the Hearts and Souls of those "scientists, doctors, nurses, everyday people" who are doing the physical work.

If you could stop people from dying from this virus would you?

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In a Heart Beat!!!

2PhiloVoid said:

I'm not sure anyone could know an answer to those questions, Clizby. You'll have to decide that for yourself.

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Perhaps those with a personal relationship with Jesus (God) can tell us?

BigV said:

Perhaps those with a personal relationship with Jesus (God) can tell us?

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Nope. They won't be able to give you a final word on that either, sorry to say. But you can keep thinking they 'should' if you want to, since it's a 'free' country.

Clizby WampusCat said:

How can you tell? If God was not there would scientists, doctors nurses etc. not be able to work on this problem?

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Oh...they could still work. It's just that in their helping those in need is how God is made a reality. That's just how it works.

Why? This is in opposition to what God wants. If God wanted to eliminate this virus he could in a moment, the fact that he does not indicates that he wants this virus to keep killing people.

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I don't think God is a Greek Pagan God controlling things like puppets. That's your stick.

Clizby WampusCat said:

How do I tell the difference between a God that acts like this and no God at all?

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When people are acting with Love, Empathy and Compassion with service to those in need, that's God being made a reality.

I don't think this. I am just asking what's Gods role in this pandemic.

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Which I gave an answer to in post# 82.

And why would you stop the pandemic if you could but God not stopping it is OK with you?

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I see God stopping the pandemic through us Human Beings when we make God a reality through our Love, our Empathy and our Compassion as we are in service to those stricken by this virus.

Clizby WampusCat said:

Why do you believe this?

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How else would God become a reality for a person other than in their service to others with a Heart filled with things like Love, Empathy and Compassion.

I will ask again, how do I tell the difference between a God that acts like this and a God that does not exist?

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I think I did answer.
I'll try again. Rather than looking at how God "acts", look instead at how people act. Look for the Love, Empathy and Compassion in people who are in service to those in need. That's God being made a reality in those people.

Clizby WampusCat said:

Do you believe God is real?

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Of course, and an absolute reality in my life.

Again, how do I tell this God and a God that does not exist?

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If the question is directed at yourself and how "you" can know, sorry if I missed that part of the question.

I can only speak for myself because each of us have different experiences of the Divine. For me, it's when I began to study the mystics of the various spiritual traditions and seeing how they saw things that my own inner spiritual sight changed. Now days as I look around, every Soul is an activity of God. That's what worked for me. So now when I see Love bubbling up from a persons Heart, I'm aware of a different flavor to it. That's when I can tell it's coming from God rather than a person's ego.

For you, I don't know the answer. Each of us are on our own journey. And really, as long as your a Loving person, I don't think it matters one way or another.

People love, have compassion and empathy without god.

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People do not need to believe in God for the Divine to still bubble up in them.

Why do you believe God exists?

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Because I see the Divine everywhere I turn.

What is your belief about a God?

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I "experience" God as the foundation of the spark of life.

Clizby WampusCat said:

No, looking back I did not word the question very well. My question is how can we tell the difference between a God that does not show himself (guides surgeons hands and all) and a God that does not exist?

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I don't know about God guiding the hands of surgeons. That sounds more like a puppeteer. It's more of a Heart thing that makes God a reality for a person.

Why do you have this belief? Why do you think this is true?

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By what I see and experience.
At the same time in the Wisdom traditions there's a lot of knowledge about these types of things. Not so much with in the Fundamentalist trajectory though.

Well most Christians on this site would disagree and since there is no reliable way to know, I guess I will just stay unconvinced.

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It's a spiritual thing. And without going there I completely understand your being unconvinced. But that's the way it should be I guess.