What is God's Role in the Current Pandemic?

[Clizby WampusCat]

Does god have a role in this? Is he just letting it happen or something else?

 

[durangodawood]

(I want to know too)

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Does god have a role in this? Is he just letting it happen or something else?

I'm not sure anyone could know an answer to those questions, Clizby. You'll have to decide that for yourself.

 

[durangodawood]

I'm not sure anyone could know an answer to those questions, Clizby. You'll have to decide that for yourself.

I thought theology had a faith-based answer to that, as opposed to "knowing" in the normal sense.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I thought theology had a faith-based answer to that, as opposed to "knowing" in the normal sense.

I'm sure there are some of my brethren who might say they have an 'answer,' but such answers are couched in whichever one of a dozen Eschatological positions a person could choose.

Personally, I don't believe that there is a system of conclusive thought which can be put forward and by which we can then explain 'all the difficult experiential phenomena' that we human beings have to face in this world.

What I do think, however, is that we can all learn to think about how we interpret the biblical Apocalyptic passages and make our best estimations about the kinds of phenomena we're all experiencing right now around the world ...

 

[Silmarien]

I thought theology had a faith-based answer to that, as opposed to "knowing" in the normal sense.

Yeah, there are a bunch of different answers, depending on how exactly you address the Problem of Evil in general. By which I mean, whether you think catastrophe in general is punishment, a sort of harsh teaching moment, something that God can't eliminate without damaging free will, or whatever other theories are floating around.

 

[durangodawood]

Yeah, there are a bunch of different answers, depending on how exactly you address the Problem of Evil in general. By which I mean, whether you think catastrophe in general is punishment, a sort of harsh teaching moment, something that God can't eliminate without damaging free will, or whatever other theories are floating around.

Sometime in frustration I'm like: I know why nobody knows and there's 20 different conjectures.... because we're making it up as we go!

 

[Silmarien]

Sometime in frustration I'm like: I know why nobody knows and there's 20 different conjectures.... because we're making it up as we go!

Eh, I wouldn't really consider the interpretation of empirical data to be making it up as we go in any field. People just expect a higher degree of certainty and consensus in theology than they do anywhere else, for reasons that I don't quite understand.

 

[durangodawood]

Eh, I wouldn't really consider the interpretation of empirical data to be making it up as we go in any field. People just expect a higher degree of certainty and consensus in theology than they do anywhere else, for reasons that I don't quite understand.

I think in every other field that interprets empirical data there's demonstrable progress in understanding.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I think in every other field that interprets empirical data there's demonstrable progress in understanding.

Belief in God is not based on empirical data. Belief in God is based on faith.....Can we know the how and why of everything that God does?....nope.....a person would drive them self crazy trying to figure that out.....

 

[durangodawood]

Belief in God is not based on empirical data. Belief in God is based on faith.....Can we know the how and why of everything that God does?....nope.....a person would drive them self crazy trying to figure that out.....

I totally agree.

But did you see that I was responding to the implication that theology has a basis in empirical data?

 

[Silmarien]

I think in every other field that interprets empirical data there's demonstrable progress in understanding.

Eh, there are postmodernists out there who would deny that science is anything more than an anthropocentric attempt to place our categories of logic upon an unknowable external world. And even without going to that extreme, Kuhnian paradigms are a thing, so demonstrable progress is sometimes an illusion. Of course, with softer fields, things get much trickier. "Progress" in history sometimes doesn't amount to much more than everyone jumping on a shiny new trend.

"Progress" is also a strange sort of idea to apply to Christian theology, since it doesn't really operate under the assumption that we're going to know more tomorrow than we did yesterday. The major point of data is historical in nature.

 

[Silmarien]

I totally agree.

But did you see that I was responding to the implication that theology has a basis in empirical data?

The "empirical data" I was talking about was the pandemic. A theological discussion of a pandemic would be an interpretation of empirical data.

 

[durangodawood]

Eh, there are postmodernists out there who would deny that science is anything more than an anthropocentric attempt to place our categories of logic upon an unknowable external world. And even without going to that extreme, Kuhnian paradigms are a thing, so demonstrable progress is sometimes an illusion. Of course, with softer fields, things get much trickier. "Progress" in history sometimes doesn't amount to much more than everyone jumping on a shiny new trend.....

Yes "out there" is quite appropriate. And paradigms are somewhat overrated. When they flip its not like all knowledge prior is useless and thrown out. Some is. Most stays perfectly valid. One real measure of real progress is the accumulation of that sort of durable knowledge.

..."Progress" is also a strange sort of idea to apply to Christian theology, since it doesn't really operate under the assumption that we're going to know more tomorrow than we did yesterday. The major point of data is historical in nature.

I do think progress is a valid idea to apply to any empirically based endeavor, per my comment above. I think the reason its weird to apply "progress" to theology is because theology isnt really that kind of endeavor.

 

[civilwarbuff]

.

 

[Silmarien]

Yes "out there" is quite appropriate. And paradigms are somewhat overrated. When they flip its not like all knowledge prior is useless and thrown out. Some is. Most stays perfectly valid. One real measure of real progress is the accumulation of that sort of durable knowledge.

But this is your interpretation of the situation. A bunch of different people have other views, depending on underlying beliefs. You can't really say, "People believe different things, so we're just making it up as we go," because that applies to virtually everything, and your view on science isn't necessarily more valid than a postmodernist's.

I do think progress is a valid idea to apply to any empirically based endeavor, per my comment above. I think the reason its weird to apply "progress" to theology is because theology isnt really that kind of endeavor.

Even if that were true, "there's no progress, therefore we're making things up as we go" doesn't really make sense if you don't think it's the type of endeavor where progress applies at all.

I do think that theology is to a certain extent an empirical endeavor, though, insofar as it's not detached from what actually goes on in the world. For example, I don't think that the medieval explanation for plagues, in which they're punishments sent by God, is particularly convincing in a world where we know how pathogens actually work. It's still a popular answer, of course, but that doesn't make me want to throw my hands up and say we're making stuff up any more than the postmodernists make me want to do that.

 

[eleos1954]

Does god have a role in this? Is he just letting it happen or something else?

What is God's Role in the Current Pandemic?

To help us all through it.

Joshua 1:9 "Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be frightened, and do not be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go."

 

[durangodawood]

But this is your interpretation of the situation. A bunch of different people have other views, depending on underlying beliefs. You can't really say, "People believe different things, so we're just making it up as we go," because that applies to virtually everything, and your view on science isn't necessarily more valid than a postmodernist's.

When we transitioned out of the Newtonian physics paradigm we didnt lose every thing we'd gained in optics, thermodynamics, classical mechanics. I dont think thats just my interpretation. And I dont see that accumulation of sturdy knowledge taking place in theology.

What I do see in theology is an evolution of a story's main character: God. I see this over the course of the books of the Bible. I guess thats progress. So I'm going to retract my earlier no-progress assertion. The problem is: the Bible as an exclusive canon has acted as a giant boat anchor holding back further evolution of the story. I realize theologians have pushed the envelope here and there, but my sense is the main church(es) remain quite conservative.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

What is God's Role in the Current Pandemic?

To help us all through it.

Joshua 1:9 "Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be frightened, and do not be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go."

Could he stop it if he wanted to?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I'm not sure anyone could know an answer to those questions, Clizby. You'll have to decide that for yourself.

I agree becasue as far as I can tell God won't tell anyone.