UNDER THE LAW!

HARK! · Mar 28, 2020

Saint Steven said:
So what is the point of all this?

Those who have eyes to see; let them see.

Saint Steven · Mar 28, 2020

Dkh587 said:
Yes

You do share the opinion of Paul about the Ten Commandments?
That surprises me. Although this was a set-up. You probably didn't anticipate what I am about to tell you. If we agree that the Ten Commandments were"engraved in letters on stone", then here is what the Apostle has to say about them. (the TCs)

The TCs are the transitory ministry of condemnation and death that has no glory now. The letter of the law kills. Other than that, he's fine with them.

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Saint Steven · Mar 28, 2020

HARK! said:
I didn't change horses Paul did. Those are his words.

No. His words are the same, yours are different.

HARK! · Mar 28, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Yes, that is correct. Don't listen to those other two. They will mislead you. I am here to challenge them. Claiming that the term "works of the law" is not found in the Torah is a meaningless rebuttal. Of course the term is not found in the Torah. So what?

Paul refers to the book of the law here. (Moses law) And says that all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse.

Galatians 3:10
For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

16 having perceived that a man is not being justified by works of law, except alone through the faith of Christ Jesus, we also believe in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by the faith of Christ and not by works of law, seeing that by works of law shall no flesh at all be justified."

What law is this? Let's look at what Paul said in Romans:

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

Now I don't believe that Paul had mental issues. Obviously "Works of Law" is something different than the Torah.

Paul kept the Torah:

(CLV) Ac 24:14
"Yet I am avowing this to you, that, according to the way which they are terming a sect, thus am I offering divine service to the hereditary God, believing all that is written, according to the law and in the prophets,

How do you justify your assertion?

not under law · Mar 28, 2020

There is a dividing line in Christianity, and it is according to the Holy Spirit. Many, especially on websites such as these spend huge amounts of time studying, by reading the Greek, concordances and dictionaries in order to learn of the Spiritual. Sadly, that is not the way to understand the spiritual message of the bible, for it is relying on the academic mind to learn. It is all over the NT that only the Holy Spirit can lead you into spiritual truth, for he is the Spirit of truth. And the person led of the academic mind cannot understand or comprehend righteousness apart from obeying the law. It is plainly obvious that not being under law refers to not being under righteousness of obeying the law. Romans2:12&13 plainly shows that, if you need to be shown. The christian is not under law, the bible does not say if you perfectly obey the law you are not under the law. And if you are not under righteousness of obeying the law, it is plainly obvious what works of the law refer to(as 1984 Edition of NIV states it is observing the law). It could not be clearer. But the natural mind of man is not in line with being led of the Holy Spirit into truth.
In order to be truly righteous under the law requires perfect obedience of it, something that is beyond man to achieve. Hence David’s words:
Do not bring your servant into judgement, for no one living is righteous before you Psalms143:2
There is considered righteousness and there is true righteousness, and man cannot attain to true righteousness, hence he needs a saviour from sin. And hence you are cursed if you rely on the law to be justified before God(Gal3:10&11), and hence law brings wrath(Rom14:4)No one who has to read law written in ink to be convicted they should obey that law, has that law written in their mind and placed on their heart, that should be obvious. For what is in your mind you in your mind must surely know, and law in your heart must bring heartfelt consciousness of sin if you ignore it, for sin is the transgression of the law: Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20
However, the natural mind of man can reason anything if he so wishes, and take scripture out of context if he chooses to do so, it is not so hard to do in order to cling to cherished beliefs..
Jesus said no one obeyed the law when he spoke to the crowds in John ch7. Those who are preaching righteousness of obeying the law do not obey it either, anywhere near the pristene level it is set at. You may obey what is termed legalistic law, you may avoid pork, and have Saturday as Sabbath days for example, but you will always fall short where the moral law is concerned, allways. No matter the fact you do not want to fall short, you always will.
The best thing some could do, is throw away concordances and dictionaries, stop relying on ancient manuscripts, the Greek wording, or the Aramaic and Hebrew, and humbly get down on their knees and ask the Holy Spirit may lead you into truth as you read the bible. That way is far more reliable, and profitable.
A well known evangelist once said: Some read their bibles in the Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew, I like to read mine through the Holy Spirit

HARK! · Mar 28, 2020

Saint Steven said:
No. His words are the same, yours are different.

Proof?

I'm going to have to insist that if you're going to purport that I've said something, that you quote me verbatim. You've already demonstrated, time and again, flaws in your reading comprehension.

Saint Steven · Mar 28, 2020

not under law said:
A well known evangelist once said: Some read their bibles in the Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew, I like to read mine through the Holy Spirit

That's some good advice.

Saint Steven · Mar 28, 2020

HARK! said:
Proof?

It's not a trick. Same words means same words. Identical.

Saint Steven said: ↑
No. His words are the same, yours are different.

Saint Steven · Mar 28, 2020

HARK! said:
Proof?

I'm going to have to insist that if you're going to purport that I've said something, that you quote me verbatim. You've already demonstrated, time and again, flaws in your reading comprehension.

Perhaps it is your posts that are incomprehensible. Quoting them wouldn't clear anything up.

Saint Steven · Mar 28, 2020

HARK! said:
Those who have eyes to see; let them see.

Pointless then. Just as I suspected.

Galatians 3:10
For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

HARK! · Mar 28, 2020

Saint Steven said:
It's not a trick. Same words means same words. Identical.

Saint Steven said: ↑
No. His words are the same, yours are different.

I didn't say it was a trick. Why would you bring that up?

Now, I ask again for proof of your assertion about what I said. I insist that you quote me verbatim.

When you disagree with someone's position, you should post evidence and supporting statements for your position. This policy, sometimes referred to as "X means Y because of Z", must be followed especially when posting claims that are widely considered to be controversial.

Statement of Purpose - Controversial Christian Theology Statement of Purpose

Saint Steven · Mar 28, 2020

HARK! said:
I didn't say it was a trick. Why would you bring that up?

Now, I ask again for proof of your assertion about what I said. I insist that you quote me verbatim.

When you disagree with someone's position, you should post evidence and supporting statements for your position. This policy, sometimes referred to as "X means Y because of Z", must be followed especially when posting claims that are widely considered to be controversial.

Statement of Purpose - Controversial Christian Theology Statement of Purpose

I disagree. Period.

HARK! · Mar 28, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Pointless then. Just as I suspected.

Galatians 3:10
For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

YooHoo!

16 having perceived that a man is not being justified by works of law, except alone through the faith of Christ Jesus, we also believe in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by the faith of Christ and not by works of law, seeing that by works of law shall no flesh at all be justified."

What law is this? Let's look at what Paul said in Romans:

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

Now I don't believe that Paul had mental issues. Obviously "Works of Law" is something different than the Torah.

Paul kept the Torah:

(CLV) Ac 24:14
"Yet I am avowing this to you, that, according to the way which they are terming a sect, thus am I offering divine service to the hereditary God, believing all that is written, according to the law and in the prophets,

not under law · Mar 28, 2020

Saint Steven said:
I disagree. Period.

Taking scripture out of context and not considering the verses around it leads to error doesn't it?
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Rom2:12&13
Obviously, if you live under the law you would be righteous by obeying it. However, Paul soon makes clear in his letter no one will be righteous by obeying the law, and the believer is not under law
BTW
The Holy Spirit obviously leads you, you accept the message
God bless

HARK! · Mar 28, 2020

Saint Steven said:
I disagree. Period.

You can disagree all you want; but you're still accountable to CF rules as you are with the Torah. I won't discuss with you, your unsupported, suspected libelous, comments regarding what I've allegedly said, again.

Thank you for your response.

Saint Steven · Mar 28, 2020

HARK! said:
What law is this? Let's look at what Paul said in Romans:

Typical diversionary tactic.

HARK! · Mar 28, 2020

not under law said:
Taking scripture out of context and not considering the verses around it leads to error doesn't it?

Indeed!

not under law said:
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Rom2:12&13

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Rom2:12&13

You skipped over what was before, and what was after, that which you highlighted. Did you not consider the verses around that which you highlighted?

Saint Steven · Mar 28, 2020

Galatians 2:21
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

Saint Steven · Mar 28, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Galatians 2:21
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

Context? Good idea.

Galatians 3:1-3
You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

HARK! · Mar 28, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Galatians 2:21
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

UNDER THE LAW!

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You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

שמע

You can call me Steve

שמע

Well-Known Member

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You can call me Steve

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You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

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