UNDER THE LAW!

[HARK!]

Their righteousness is faith in Christ

Their righteousness comes from faith in Messiah. If they truly believe in Messiah; they will follow his example of righteousness.

if I told my child, "don't jump in that tree shredder; you'll die," and he believed me; he wouldn't jump into the tree shredder.

The message was the same since the Garden. YHWH said to Adam, "don't...you'll die;" but Adam listened to Ha'Satan, and didn't believe YHWH.


Adam died.

 

[Saint Steven]

Adam died.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

 

[not under law]

(CLV) Gn 15:6
Now Abram believed ion Elohim, and He reckoned it to him for righteousness

(CLV) Gn 26:5
inasmuch as your father Abraham hearkened to My voice and kept My charge, My instructions, My statutes and My laws.

(CLV) Ja 2:22
You are observing that faith worked together with his works, and by works was faith perfected.

(CLV) Ja 2:23
And fulfilled was the scripture which is saying, Now "Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified~, and not by faith only.

In your view, did Abraham lose his justification/righteousness when he took Sarah to Egypt and lied to Pharoah, telling him she was just his sister? Then he said nothing while Pharoah took Sarah into his palace to be his wife and lavished gifts on Abraham

 

[Dkh587]

Thank you @Dkh587 I have learnt something new today

You’re welcome. The information is available for all to see. You can see who is open to truth and who is interested in defending their error.

It is a wonderful trait to want to learn, and expand your knowledge of the scriptures.

 

[not under law]

Their righteousness comes from faith in Messiah. If they truly believe in Messiah; they will follow his example of righteousness.

if I told my child, "don't jump in that tree shredder; you'll die," and he believed me; he wouldn't jump into the tree shredder.

The message was the same since the Garden. YHWH said to Adam, "don't...you'll die;" but Adam listened to Ha'Satan, and didn't believe YHWH.


Adam died.

Yes, the believers righteousness is faith in Christ. The law is in their heart and mind, it is no longer an external law engraved in stone, but a law written on tablets of human hearts. What is in your heart, you in your heart want to follow. Note the order things come in the new covenant. Firstly it is written the law will be placed in your heart and mind, then it is added your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more. You only get the second because the first has taken place

 

[Dkh587]

You do share the opinion of Paul about the Ten Commandments?
That surprises me. Although this was a set-up. You probably didn't anticipate what I am about to tell you. If we agree that the Ten Commandments were"engraved in letters on stone", then here is what the Apostle has to say about them. (the TCs)

The TCs are the transitory ministry of condemnation and death that has no glory now. The letter of the law kills. Other than that, he's fine with them.

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Yet Paul taught obedience to the 10 commandments:

Ephesians 6:1-3

Children, obey your parents in Yahweh: for this is right.

Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise that it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

Your misunderstanding of Paul strikes again.

 

[not under law]

Paul writing to believers concerning the ten commandments/law engraved in stone:

for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.


7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!
2Cor3:6-9

 

[Dkh587]

Im not confusing myself at all:
and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous

Anyone living under the law is obviously righteous by obeying the law
Followers of the messiah are not under the law because they obey the law? Paul, rom ch7?

The whole world is under the law in Romans 3:19. I’m confident that you do think the whole world is obeying God’s law, as you already admitted they don’t earlier.

 

[Saint Steven]

Hebrews 8:7, 13
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. ...
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

 

[HARK!]

Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

Stale mate. You'll have to come up with a new schtick to promote your message of disregard for the Torah.

(CLV) Hb 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

(CLV) Hb 10:27
but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, about to be eating the hostile.

(CLV) Hb 10:28
Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

(CLV) Hb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?

This isn't to be taken lightly.

 

[not under law]

The whole world is under the law in Romans 3:19. I’m confident that you do think the whole world is obeying God’s law, as you already admitted they don’t earlier.

The whole world apart from Christians are under the law. Though the unsaved do not have the law for they are not believers, they are still under the law for judgement/righteousness for they do not have a saviour from sin:

The worlds sin is unbelief in me John16:9

 

[Saint Steven]

Yet Paul taught obedience to the 10 commandments

That's why he called it the transitory ministry of condemnation and death that has no glory now? (2 Corinthians 3:6-11) Something doesn't add up here.

 

[Dkh587]

something doesn't add up here.

Yeah, your doctrine.

 

[HARK!]

Hebrews 8:7, 13
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. ...
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

What is the author speaking of here? Did you read this in context?

Hint: It's not the law, that Yahshua said would stand until the end of the earth.

 

[Saint Steven]

This isn't to be taken lightly.

Neither is this.

Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

 

[Saint Steven]

Yeah, your doctrine.

2 Corinthians 3:6
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

 

[Saint Steven]

Hint: It's not the law, that Yahshua said would stand until the end of the earth.

You mean "the Law or the Prophets"? (not the law)

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Luke 24:44
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

 

[HARK!]

Neither is this.

Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Neither is this:


(CLV) Mt 13:41
The Son of Mankind shall be dispatching His messengers, and they shall be culling out of His kingdom all the snares and those doing lawlessness

 

[HARK!]

You mean "the Law or the Prophets"? (not the law)

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Luke 24:44
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

It all hasn't been fulfilled. The best is yet to come. Read your Bible!

 

[Saint Steven]

Neither is this:


(CLV) Mt 13:41
The Son of Mankind shall be dispatching His messengers, and they shall be culling out of His kingdom all the snares and those doing lawlessness

You still haven't owned up to your point in all this.
Are those the only two options you offer? Under the law, or lawlessness?