“Sanctify Them”

Phil W said:

Please remember that you qualified your "test 3" with "while he walked a prodigal life".
He was not saved in that condition.

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Let's look at the actual verses.
"For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry." (Luke 15:24).

"It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found." (Luke 15:32).

Again, you missed the point of what took place. The prodigal son was not just only dead spiritually when he was spending his money on prostitutes, but his father also said (after his son came home and sought forgiveness with him) that his son was "alive AGAIN." This is only possible if the son was saved prior to his falling into a prodigal life of sin beforehand. When he lived in a life of sin, he was dead spiritually. When he came back home from his life of sin, and sought forgiveness with his father, he became "alive AGAIN." The prodigal son became alive AGAIN spiritually. This means that a believer can fall away and die spiritually for a time, and then come back to the saving of their soul again.

James 5:19-20 teaches a similar truth.

"Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." (James 5:19-20).

Not sure if you caught what it said in this passage. We are told that if any of us errs (falls away) from the truth (that faithful path of truth in following Jesus), and another faithful believer converts us back to the faith (by getting us to seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ of our prodigal sinful ways), that faithful believer (who helped to save us) should know that they help to save a soul from spiritual death, and they helped hide a multitude of their past sins (while prodigal).

Bible Highlighter said:

Then why did God tell Abraham to be perfect?
"And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect." (Genesis 17:1).
Then why did God (by Moses's instruction) tell the Levite priests to be perfect?
"Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God." (Deuteronomy 18:13).
Why did God (by Solomon's instruction) tell the Israelites to be perfect in their heart?
"Let your heart therefore be perfect with the LORD our God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments, as at this day." (1 Kings 8:61).
Why was Asa's heart said to be perfect?
"But the high places were not removed: nevertheless Asa's heart was perfect with the LORD all his days." (1 Kings 15:14).
Why did God say that Job was perfect?
"And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?" (Job 1:8).
Surely Enoch was translated and did not see death because he lived a life that was pleasing to God.
"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God." (Hebrews 11:5).
"And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him" (Genesis 5:24).
Walking implies that Enoch obeyed God. For "walking in the light" (in 1 John 1:7) is related to loving one's brother in 1 John 2:9-11. Loving one's brother is a part of loving God according to Scripture (1 John 3:10).

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You have some good examples of men who DID obey God perfectly.
Even without rebirth.
But in places, the obedience was to the Law, which included atonements for sin.
It is the only way folks like John the Baptists' parents and Mary could be without sin...till the next sin, that is.
If I am wrong, then Jesus' conquest of sin was unnecessary, and men could be perfect without all that Jesus died to give us.

Phil W said:

Agreed.
But those abiding in Him are those born of God's seed.

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A person can be twice dead, plucked up by the roots.

"These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;" (Jude 1:12).

Meaning, they were once dead as a part of their old life before coming to Christ, and they became dead again by falling away from the faith.

You said:

Part of what?
You lost me.

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"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:
whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."
(1 John 3:6).
Meaning: This verse is implying that Christ has never known them by the fact if they sin. I provided two explanations (Backed up by Scripture) as to what this most likely is referring to.

Phil W said:

I define repentance as "turn from" or, "change".
If a man turns from sin, he doesn't sin anymore.

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I am not surprised. The majority of Christians today define it in this way. But is it biblical? I provided a long list of verses for you to check out so as to be a good Berean.

You said:

If they fall away they weren't "believers".

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I provided a lot of verses that indicate otherwise. Please do not sweep these verses under the rug and be honest when you read them. Please carefully consider what they plainly say. I know that the idea of a believer falling away is not appealing to you, but truth should never be something that appeals to what we prefer.

Bible Highlighter said:

Let's look at the actual verses.
"For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry." (Luke 15:24).

"It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found." (Luke 15:32).

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So the dead in sin are saved?
Not buying it.
Had the prodigal son died while away, he would have been lost before he came home.
It is a parable, by the way, so may be more picturesque that actual teachings.

Again, you missed the point of what took place. The prodigal son was not just only dead spiritually when he was spending his money on prostitutes, but his father also said (after his son came home and sought forgiveness with him) that his son was "alive AGAIN." This is only possible if the son was saved prior to his falling into a prodigal life of sin beforehand. When he lived in a life of sin, he was dead spiritually. When he came back home from his life of sin, and sought forgiveness with his father, he became "alive AGAIN." The prodigal son became alive AGAIN spiritually. This means that a believer can fall away and die spiritually for a time, and then come back to the saving of their soul again.

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Jesus was talking to OT folks who were under the Law, not to NT saint who have been reborn...raised with Christ.
What you refer to as rebirth was not really rebirth, as they would just go out and sin again and again.
We have been enabled to cast off the flesh, and walk in the Spirit instead.
They couldn't do that in the OT.

James 5:19-20 teaches a similar truth.
"Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." (James 5:19-20).
Not sure if you caught what it said in this passage. We are told that if any of us errs (falls away) from the truth (that faithful path of truth in following Jesus), and another faithful believer converts us back to the faith (by getting us to seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ of our prodigal sinful ways), that faithful believer (who helped to save us) should know that they help to save a soul from spiritual death, and they helped hide a multitude of their past sins (while prodigal).

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That "conversion" will be the first conversion.
Any prior conversion was false.[/QUOTE]

Phil W said:

So the dead in sin are saved?
Not buying it.
Had the prodigal son died while away, he would have been lost before he came home.
It is a parable, by the way, so may be more picturesque that actual teachings.

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Your not buying it?
I am referring to what the Bible plainly says here.
There is no point in continuing this discussion or debate, my friend (if you do not accept what I pointed out in Scripture plainly).

I have shown you clear Scripture that the prodigal son was said to be: "alive AGAIN."
The parable is speaking in spiritual terms. He became "alive again" spiritually.

What does "alive AGAIN" mean to you?

Besides, James 5:19-20 teaches a similar truth. The burden is on you to prove that I am wrong according to what these verses are saying (using the context), etc.

Phil W said:

So the dead in sin are saved?
Not buying it

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No. Those who are prodigal are dead spiritually. If a person is living in sin, they are dead spiritually. But if they confess of their sins to the Lord, they can have forgiveness again and be saved again.

Phil W said:

So the dead in sin are saved?
Not buying it.
Had the prodigal son died while away, he would have been lost before he came home.
It is a parable, by the way, so may be more picturesque that actual teachings.


Jesus was talking to OT folks who were under the Law, not to NT saint who have been reborn...raised with Christ.
What you refer to as rebirth was not really rebirth, as they would just go out and sin again and again.
We have been enabled to cast off the flesh, and walk in the Spirit instead.
They couldn't do that in the OT.


That "conversion" will be the first conversion.
Any prior conversion was false.

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Think of it like this. King Hezekiah was going to die. He prayed and God extended his life.

Note: This is not a perfect analogy. But the point here is that our standing with GOD is conditional and not unconditional by making a one time decision in accepting the LORD one time.

Bible Highlighter said:

Your not buying it?
I am referring to what the Bible plainly says here.
There is no point in continuing this discussion or debate, my friend (if you do not accept what I pointed out in Scripture plainly).

I have shown you clear Scripture that the prodigal son was said to be: "alive AGAIN."
The parable is speaking in spiritual terms. He became "alive again" spiritually.

What does "alive AGAIN" mean to you?

Besides, James 5:19-20 teaches a similar truth. The burden is on you to prove that I am wrong according to what these verses are saying (using the context), etc.

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The prodigal son was dead while he was dead...not saved.

Bible Highlighter said:

No. Those who are prodigal are dead spiritually. If a person is living in sin, they are dead spiritually. But if they confess of their sins to the Lord, they can have forgiveness again and be saved again.

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I look at that as see-saw Christianity.
I feel that if a man commits sin, it is because he is still a sinner...not a reborn son of God.

Bible Highlighter said:

Think of it like this. King Hezekiah was going to die. He prayed and God extended his life.

Note: This is not a perfect analogy. But the point here is that our standing with GOD is conditional and not unconditional by making a one time decision in accepting the LORD one time.

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If one seems to stray from the Lord, he hasn't accepted the Lord.

Phil W said:

The prodigal son was dead while he was dead...not saved.

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There seems to be a breakdown in communications here.
Your not getting it, my friend.
Let me restate this for clarity.

Prodigal Son Spiritual Status Timeline:

A. Prodigal Son's Spiritual Life Status Sometime Before He Went Prodigal:


B. Prodigal Son's Spiritual Life Status While Prodigal:


C. Prodigal Son Spiritual Life Status When He Came Back Home and Sought Forgiveness With His Father:



Side Note:

James 5:19-20 expresses a similar truth that you can:


Hopefully this helps you to see what I mean when I say that the prodigal son is "alive AGAIN" according to Scripture. He was once saved by having a right relationship with his father, then died spiritually for a time due to his justifying sin, and then when he came back home and sought forgiveness with his father, he was saved again.

He was once saved, then when to a temporary state of not being saved, and then he later time in his life became saved again.

Phil W said:

If one seems to stray from the Lord, he hasn't accepted the Lord.

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Yeah, but that line of thinking does not jive with the parable of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-32), and James 5:19-20.

Phil W said:

I look at that as see-saw Christianity.

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It doesn't matter what you think or I think. We cannot place our thoughts above what the Bible plainly teaches. The Bible plainly teaches that you can be saved, then become unsaved, and then saved again in Luke 15:11-32, and James 5:19-20. For how do you explain these portions of Scripture to say so otherwise? You really cannot explain them beyond what they plainly say here. We have to accept the whole counsel of God's Word, my friend.

You said:

I feel that if a man commits sin, it is because he is still a sinner...not a reborn son of God.

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There are 400 approximate explicit commands in the New Testament.

Please take note that I do not want you to answer the following questions on the forums here. They are personal questions that are only between you and God to work out. I do not need to know and neither does anyone else here. But I am going to ask these questions so as to show you that you may not be as perfect as you think.

Do you watch or listen to worldly entertainment? Do you hang out with unbelievers? Have you never lusted briefly after a woman since coming to the faith? Have you never said something anger that you later regretted? Did you ever make an oath or promise? Note: Jesus commands us not to make oaths. Do you love your enemies? Do you pick up your cross, deny yourself, and follow Jesus every day? Do you spread the gospel in some way? Do you help the poor in some way? Do you love the brethren in some way? Do you pray in vain repetition? Do you pray so as to be seen by others? Do you give so as to be seen by others? Do you place your treasure here upon this Earth or only in Heaven? Have you ever had a moment of fear that was not the fear of God? Do you honor your father and mother? Have you ever said a curse word unintentionally? Do you hold to any kind of unforgiveness? Are you content with your wages or pay? When you give a dinner or a supper or feast, do you call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind?
Do you love the brethren in the same way or manner that Jesus has done? This is a new commandment that He has given us (See: John 13:34). Have you ever spoken evil or wrong words against your political leader? Do you weep with them that weep? Do you take vengeance or justice into your own hands?