Questions about the Trinity

Kilk1 said:

Is there Scriptural support for calling God a "What"? How is this reconciled with the following statement of yours:

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You can forget about the What & Whos, if you want. It's just another way of saying the same thing. The 1 What = 1 Essence and the 3 Whos = 3 Persons. I know, it's confusing.

Kilk1 said:

It's hard for me to reconcile this with the above.

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Guess a bit off topic there, referencing that the word Who is part of God's name.

Kilk1 said:

This is something I'm going to need to look into further. Thanks!

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You're welcome. Also, checkout the 7 metaphorical I AM statements, that Jesus makes, in the book of John. Following are a couple links that I hope will be helpful to you:

What is the meaning of I AM WHO I AM in Exodus 3:14? | GotQuestions.org
What are the seven I AM statements in the Gospel of John? | GotQuestions.org

Kilk1 said:

Hello. While I don't deny the Trinity, I've struggled for a while to understand it. It's hard for me to see how to reconcile passages that say the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God while at the same time being faithful to the passages saying that God is one (e.g., Deut. 6:4; Isa. 43:10). I think the reason I struggle could be resolved if I better understood what "one God" meant. These are my questions:

1. What is the definition of God as used in the Bible?
2. Since the Trinity teaches one God but three divine persons, what would more than one God look like, if not more than one divine person?
3. While we're at it, is Jesus ever called Jehovah (Hebrew, "YHWH")?

Thanks in advance for the help!

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The key to understanding is being aware of the reality that all three have the same Essence of Deity. God is everywhere present, and God is always knowing all things. In other words? What can God do to be independent from those attributes? Knowing all things means they are always knowing the same thing. And, being everywhere present? How could they ever be separated? Its all one and the same God!


They key is?


Two of the three (the Son and Holy Spirit) have dual natures that are in union with God. Jesus for example, is both fully God and fully man. The Father has no dual nature. He is solely God without any other nature in union with Himself.

In a nut shell. Jesus is both God, and all the God that can ever be known by humanity.

In other words? All we can ever know about God in now contained in the Humanity of Christ. Every concept we know about God was given to us by means of the humanity (Soul) in union with the Father.

John 1:18 is translated typically as follows...

I used to have a very good correspondence friend who was a pastor. He was a full time student of the Greek and Hebrew the Bible was written in. He wrote me and showed me something very revealing to be found in the Greek text of verse 18.

He said that Jesus as humanity has the position of taking God (who transcends us and can not be understood by mere men) and takes what God has privileged His humanity to grasp by having a unique union of both natures, to perceive God fully as a man could, and then have the Soul of Jesus TRANSLATE AND INTERPRET God to us in a manner that we (being mere souls) can relate to and comprehend.

In other words? Jesus is our translator of God to us. Translating God to us in "human speak."

The Amplified Bible nails one aspect of what this pastor explained. That the Greek in John 1:18 uses the same word used for commanding pastors to 'exegete' the Word of God for their flocks. In other words.. Jesus exegetes God to men!

Here is what the Amplified Bible renders John 1:18. It begins that no man has seen God. We can not perceive God with understanding unless someone knowing God as He is teaches us about what is normally too far beyond our ability to comprehend by bringing God into a realm of the reality as we know it.

Amplified translation...John 1:18!


Without the Son? No one would be able to translate God as to understanding what He is.. He would be as a foreign language to us otherwise.

That is why God has two natures in union in the Son for us! One nature translates the other nature in a manner, that we having the same nature (as His second nature) will rejoice in being made to see and be knowing what we as men and women can now grasp and comprehend beautifully!


grace and peace...

Kilk1 said:

There's definitely a lot to consider. What do we mean when we say essence? Is that the same as nature?

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Here we go.. To define it is precisely?

Its why God has the Son, who is manifested as body and the Soul of Jehovah, as to bring what God is into the realm of our perceptive abilities. Be it physical, or spiritual.

Essence? God's essence?

God's essence is the material consisting of God which is both invisible and immaterial in relation to our realm of life.

Yet, this same essence of God is the source of all material things that He brought into being. Created things that we can see and touch.

If God were visible solid material? He could not pervade all creation and space. And, also pervade time, past, present, and future!

That includes inside of you! Can you feel Him? Smell Him? Hear Him? Yet He is inside of every cell of your body!

Now, do you want to take a shot at it? Define God's essence?

That is why we read Jesus saying... "To see Me is to see the Father!"

For, God made Himself able to be seen by humans, in terms that we are able to relate to, by means of His Son.


grace and peace

genez said:

The key to understanding is being aware of the reality that all three have the same Essence of Deity. God is everywhere present, and God is always knowing all things. In other words? What can God do to be independent from those attributes? Knowing all things means they are always knowing the same thing. And, being everywhere present? How could they ever be separated? Its all one and the same God!


They key is?


Two of the three (the Son and Holy Spirit) have dual natures that are in union with God. Jesus for example, is both fully God and fully man. The Father has no dual nature. He is solely God without any other nature in union with Himself.

In a nut shell. Jesus is both God, and all the God that can ever be known by humanity.

In other words? All we can ever know about God in now contained in the Humanity of Christ. Every concept we know about God was given to us by means of the humanity (Soul) in union with the Father.

John 1:18 is translated typically as follows...

No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son,
who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.​

I used to have a very good correspondence friend who was a pastor. He was a full time student of the Greek and Hebrew the Bible was written in. He wrote me and showed me something very revealing to be found in the Greek text of verse 18.

He said that Jesus as humanity has the position of taking God (who transcends us and can not be understood by mere men) and takes what God has privileged His humanity to grasp by having a unique union of both natures, to perceive God fully as a man could, and then have the Soul of Jesus TRANSLATE AND INTERPRET God to us in a manner that we (being mere souls) can relate to and comprehend.

In other words? Jesus is our translator of God to us. Translating God to us in "human speak."

The Amplified Bible nails one aspect of what this pastor explained. That the Greek in John 1:18 uses the same word used for commanding pastors to 'exegete' the Word of God for their flocks. In other words.. Jesus exegetes God to men!

Here is what the Amplified Bible renders John 1:18. It begins that no man has seen God. We can not perceive God with understanding unless someone knowing God as He is teaches us about what is normally too far beyond our ability to comprehend by bringing God into a realm of the reality as we know it.

Amplified translation...John 1:18!

No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the
only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence]
of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought
Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has
made Him known].​

Without the Son? No one would be able to translate God as to understanding what He is.. He would be as a foreign language to us otherwise.

That is why God has two natures in union in the Son for us! One nature translates the other nature in a manner, that we having the same nature (as His second nature) will rejoice in being made to see and be knowing what we as men and women can now grasp and comprehend beautifully!


grace and peace...

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Is this GeneZ from the Old Bible Discussion Forum?

frogface62 said:

Is this GeneZ from the Old Bible Discussion Forum?

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That be me. What name did you go by there? Was it, "Bubba?"

Kilk1 said:

There's definitely a lot to consider. What do we mean when we say essence? Is that the same as nature?

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Unlike us? Our physical essence is not our nature. For when you sneeze for the last time you (your soul) will be transferred to a new nature. And, the new body you will find yourself in will dramatically transform your soul's expression. Its going to be great to discover what it is that God has in store for us.

On the other hand.. God is immutable. He can not change. When not speaking of the second human nature found in Jesus Christ? His nature of Deity, and essence of Deity, can not be separated.

His Divine essence is also His Divine nature.

genez said:

That be me. What name did you go by there? Was it, "Bubba?"

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That be me. Good to see you are still posting

frogface62 said:

That be me. Good to see you are still posting

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I was born to. Born again to.

genez said:

I was born to. Born again to.

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Amen! Washed in the blood

frogface62 said:

Amen! Washed in the blood

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Actually, washed "by" the blood.

genez said:

Actually, washed "by" the blood.

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Yes! Thank you for that. Been working crazy hours. Not much free time.

frogface62 said:

Yes! Thank you for that. Been working crazy hours. Not much free time.

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Question: The Blood of Jesus.

Animals have no spiritual life. Their life therefore is only in their blood.

Now.. Jesus said that unbelievers are "dead." "Let the dead bury their own dead."

Human life? ..In order to be seen as being alive by God? Requires we be born again. Spiritually alive.

So, then.. If we were dead before regeneration? Dead in our transgressions?

Then I ask? Where/what is the "blood" for the believer to be made alive?

Its not his soul that makes us alive before God. For, those Jesus called "dead" were soul and body.

Then, where is the "blood" that makes us to be alive to God?

"God is spirit."

What God sees as our life blood is found in our human spirit! Its the blood that makes us spiritually alive. God now calls us the "living."

Some think its the Holy Spirit.. Yet, the Holy Spirit given to the Church makes us not only spiritually alive, but now also with power. The OT saints that knew God were spiritually alive. But, they did not have the power (grace) that the Holy Spirit is ready to give all who believe today in the church age.

Jesus proclaimed that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were living. Yet, they were not given the indwelling Holy Spirit like we have been So its not the Holy Spirit that makes us alive to God. It makes us alive with power by grace. Jesus said that he is the God of the living. He did not say he was the God of Abraham Isaac, and Jacob. But that He IS the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob who remained spiritually alive after dying physically.


In Jesus human spirit? Was acquired and held, all the knowledge of the Word of God needed to overcome this world.

We too can be saved from evil in this world by walking in the same way. In the Spirit with a growing richness of knowledge from God's Word.

We are to become overcomers just as the Lord overcame the world, done in grace and Truth - in the filling of the Spirit.

We are told: Be imitators of God. Through Christ. How?

Jesus did not simply have knowledge of the Word. That knowledge was alive in His expression of his being!

For, he did not say.. "I know the Truth." He said,.. "I AM the Truth."

We are commanded to walk as He walked. How can we if we have no one to teach us the Word soundly, and with accuracy? English translations are misleading too often. They miss many revealing details meant to edify the believer.

We are warned that very few should ever want to be teachers! (James 3:1)... Yet? We find an abundance today of 'many teachers'. Those who instinctively sense what it is their listeners would want to hear rather than what God knows they need to hear. What God wants them to hear to be saved from both themselves and evil in the world. (2 Tim 4:3)

So be it.... grace and peace!

frogface62 said:

Yes! Thank you for that. Been working crazy hours. Not much free time.

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When the Jews offered lambs at the Temple?

What did the priest do with the blood when done? On the altar.

And, what did Jesus offer to the Father in Heaven when He knew He was done?

genez said:

Question: The Blood of Jesus.

Animals have no spiritual life. Their life therefore is only in their blood.

Now.. Jesus said that unbelievers are "dead." "Let the dead bury their own dead."

Human life? ..In order to be seen as being alive by God? Requires we be born again. Spiritually alive.

So, then.. If we were dead before regeneration? Dead in our transgressions?

Then I ask? Where/what is the "blood" for the believer to be made alive?

Its not his soul that makes us alive before God. For, those Jesus called "dead" were soul and body.

Then, where is the "blood" that makes us to be alive to God?

"God is spirit."

What God sees as our life blood is found in our human spirit! Its the blood that makes us spiritually alive. God now calls us the "living."

Some think its the Holy Spirit.. Yet, the Holy Spirit given to the Church makes us not only spiritually alive, but now also with power. The OT saints that knew God were spiritually alive. But, they did not have the power (grace) that the Holy Spirit is ready to give all who believe today in the church age.

Jesus proclaimed that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were living. Yet, they were not given the indwelling Holy Spirit like we have been So its not the Holy Spirit that makes us alive to God. It makes us alive with power by grace. Jesus said that he is the God of the living. He did not say he was the God of Abraham Isaac, and Jacob. But that He IS the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob who remained spiritually alive after dying physically.

I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'?
He is not the God of the dead but of the living." Mat 22:32​

In Jesus human spirit? Was acquired and held, all the knowledge of the Word of God needed to overcome this world.

We too can be saved from evil in this world by walking in the same way. In the Spirit with a growing richness of knowledge from God's Word.

We are to become overcomers just as the Lord overcame the world, done in grace and Truth - in the filling of the Spirit.

We are told: Be imitators of God. Through Christ. How?

Jesus did not simply have knowledge of the Word. That knowledge was alive in His expression of his being!

For, he did not say.. "I know the Truth." He said,.. "I AM the Truth."

We are commanded to walk as He walked. How can we if we have no one to teach us the Word soundly, and with accuracy? English translations are misleading too often. They miss many revealing details meant to edify the believer.

We are warned that very few should ever want to be teachers! (James 3:1)... Yet? We find an abundance today of 'many teachers'. Those who instinctively sense what it is their listeners would want to hear rather than what God knows they need to hear. What God wants them to hear to be saved from both themselves and evil in the world. (2 Tim 4:3)

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great
number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."
​

So be it.... grace and peace!

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Excellent post! This would make a great thread

genez said:

When the Jews offered lambs at the Temple?

What did the priest do with the blood when done? On the altar.

And, what did Jesus offer to the Father in Heaven when He knew He was done?

Click to expand...

[Moses] got up early the next morning and built an altar at the foot of the mountain and set up twelve stone pillars representing the twelve tribes of Israel. Then he sent young Israelite men, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls as fellowship offerings to the Lord. Moses took half of the blood and put it in bowls, and the other half he splashed against the altar. Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it to the people. They responded, “We will do everything the Lord has said; we will obey.”

Moses then took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, “This is the blood of the covenant that the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.” (verses 4–8)

The twelve stone pillars represented the twelve tribes of Israel. Animal sacrifices were made to the Lord, with half the blood thrown on the altar and half kept in bowls. Moses then read the Book of the Covenant to the people, and the people pledged their obedience.

frogface62 said:

[Moses] got up early the next morning and built an altar at the foot of the mountain and set up twelve stone pillars representing the twelve tribes of Israel. Then he sent young Israelite men, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls as fellowship offerings to the Lord. Moses took half of the blood and put it in bowls, and the other half he splashed against the altar. Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it to the people. They responded, “We will do everything the Lord has said; we will obey.”

Moses then took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, “This is the blood of the covenant that the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.” (verses 4–8)

The twelve stone pillars represented the twelve tribes of Israel. Animal sacrifices were made to the Lord, with half the blood thrown on the altar and half kept in bowls. Moses then read the Book of the Covenant to the people, and the people pledged their obedience.

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Interesting to note in response to your post...




Could it be? In our case? It says that our sprinkling (blood of the sacrifice) speaks a better word. Word? Truth!

And...



It says we have been sprinkled with his blood.

Well then? What were we sprinkled with to be saved? The Gospel truth! TRUTH! Truth that was in Jesus as he was sacrificed! What was contained in his human spirit!

The Blood that was presented to the Father for the altar, after the sacrifice was complete.



Jesus' human spirit was presented to Father in heaven. The Blood of Jesus!

That was the spiritual blood that Jesus lived as the perfect man! His human spirit. Its our human spirit that makes us alive to God!

Add to that? Jesus did not bleed to death physically. The death that saved us took place before he willingly breathed his last! Also, Pontius Pilate was surprised to hear Jesus was already physically dead. Men did not die physically that quickly during Roman crucifixion. They could last for days. And, Jesus was a perfect human specimen.

We are told.. We now have been given the mind (thinking) of Christ! All thought contained in His human spirit.. always before us! He was the Word made flesh! We are to to grow in grace and knowledge. The more Word we comprehend and believe? The More we share in the Mind of Christ!

Its not meant for those who demand to remain simple. We need good teachers today!

Grace and peace.

genez said:

Interesting to note in response to your post...

But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the
heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of
angels in joyful assembly,to the church of the firstborn, whose names
are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the
spirits of the righteous made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new
covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word
than the blood of Abel. Heb 12:22-24​

Could it be? In our case? It says that our sprinkling (blood of the sacrifice) speaks a better word. Word? Truth!

And...

Who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God
the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient
to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be
yours in abundance. 1 Pet 1:2
​

It says we have been sprinkled with his blood.

Well then? What were we sprinkled with to be saved? The Gospel truth! TRUTH! Truth that was in Jesus as he was sacrificed! What was contained in his human spirit!

The Blood that was presented to the Father for the altar, after the sacrifice was complete.

Jesus called out with a loud voice,
“Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.”
When he had said this, he breathed his last." Luke 23:46​

Jesus' human spirit was presented to Father in heaven. The Blood of Jesus!

That was the spiritual blood that Jesus lived as the perfect man! His human spirit. Its our human spirit that makes us alive to God!

Add to that? Jesus did not bleed to death physically. The death that saved us took place before he willingly breathed his last! Also, Pontius Pilate was surprised to hear Jesus was already physically dead. Men did not die physically that quickly during Roman crucifixion. They could last for days. And, Jesus was a perfect human specimen.

We are told.. We now have been given the mind (thinking) of Christ! All thought contained in His human spirit.. always before us! He was the Word made flesh! We are to to grow in grace and knowledge. The more Word we comprehend and believe? The More we share in the Mind of Christ!

Its not meant for those who demand to remain simple. We need good teachers today!

Grace and peace.

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I believe that there are many moving parts in the beginning of our walk with Christ.

We are washed
There is the beginning of the renewing of the mind.
We begin to see the world contrary to that of those who do not walk with Christ
We cannot understand Christ with out the leading of the Holy Spirit.
The scriptures alone are not enough.
With out the mind of Christ they do not make sense.

Amen Brother!

By the way, the Lord blessed our Church Plant and we were apart of many changed lives. Marriages healed, lives changed by the Light of Christ. It was a difficult but rewarding ride. I am to old now to take on that type of work. I will just discuss Greek and share the little knowledge that I have.

By the way, "what ever happened with Yehu"?

frogface62 said:

By the way, "what ever happened with Yehu"?

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I do not remember Yehu at this time. Was he "for" or "against?"

We are sanctified by His blood. For, its THINKING in agreement with His Word causes sanctification.

His Life being known and "digested" by a believer? We become what we eat, and drink! Spiritually it takes on a new dimension and dynamic that those who live in false doctrine and ritual legalism remain as malnourished souls. Junk food Christians avoid whole Word teaching. The want "refined" to their taste with denatured teachings... and overly sweetened as we see lining the shelves in a nation plagued with type 2 diabetes and heart condition. All representative of our spiritual well being as a nation that shuns knowledge. God gives us "supplemental" teachings to help us overcome our deficiencies developed while in ignorance.

The Holy Spirit is not a babbler who is incoherent. A drunk is. Even at Pentecost, when some were speaking in tongues, what was being proclaimed was being clearly understood, but not understanding why it was happening.

We need a revival of sound doctrinal teachings to stabilize our nation. Take the abuse from the arrogant and keep on advancing till God breaks down the walls with what makes them look stupid by them trying to refute it.



And The Word was made flesh. Taking every thought captive is to secure an accurate understanding of God's Word. Exegesis is vital and the G2 intelligence ministry in God's Army. For, God's army has both civilian soldiers, and His special forces as well.

His civilian Army has the right to bear "Sound Doctrine."

grace and peace.......

genez said:

I do not remember Yehu at this time. Was he "for" or "against?"

We are sanctified by His blood. For, its THINKING in agreement with His Word causes sanctification.

His Life being known and "digested" by a believer? We become what we eat, and drink! Spiritually it takes on a new dimension and dynamic that those who live in false doctrine and ritual legalism remain as malnourished souls. Junk food Christians avoid whole Word teaching. The want "refined" to their taste with denatured teachings... and overly sweetened as we see lining the shelves in a nation plagued with type 2 diabetes and heart condition. All representative of our spiritual well being as a nation that shuns knowledge. God gives us "supplemental" teachings to help us overcome our deficiencies developed while in ignorance.

Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery.
Instead, be filled with the Spirit." Eph 5:18

​

The Holy Spirit is not a babbler who is incoherent. A drunk is. Even at Pentecost, when some were speaking in tongues, what was being proclaimed was being clearly understood, but not understanding why it was happening.

We need a revival of sound doctrinal teachings to stabilize our nation. Take the abuse from the arrogant and keep on advancing till God breaks down the walls with what makes them look stupid by them trying to refute it.

For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does.
The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the
contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish
arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ."
2 Cor 10:3-5​

And The Word was made flesh. Taking every thought captive is to secure an accurate understanding of God's Word. Exegesis is vital and the G2 intelligence ministry in God's Army. For, God's army has both civilian soldiers, and His special forces as well.

His civilian Army has the right to bear "Sound Doctrine."

grace and peace.......

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He was anti Trinitarian Christ. I remember you and Yehu going at it. Several times.