Can we eat pork, shellfish and crustaceans? And what about blood in meat?

coffee4u · Jan 30, 2020

HARK! said:
BINGO!

New King James Version
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.

Mark 12:30-31
30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

HARK! · Jan 30, 2020

renniks said:
Like I said, cherry picking

That's what you do when you pick and choose which of YHWH's laws YOU feel you need to obey.

renniks said:
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

So why do you even bother to keep any of them?

HARK! · Jan 30, 2020

coffee4u said:
Mark 12:30-31
30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

John 14:15

New King James Version
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.

renniks · Jan 30, 2020

HARK! said:
So why do you even bother to keep any of them?

We are to live by the spirit, not the law.
Galatians 5
"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."
"But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,"

HARK! · Jan 30, 2020

renniks said:
We are to live by the spirit, not the law.
Galatians 5
"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."

Let's look at this carefully, in context.

(CLV) Ga 5:18
Now, if you are led by spirit, you are not still under law.

Not under the law...

(CLV) Ga 5:19
Now apparent are the works of the flesh, which are adultery, prostitution, uncleanness, wantonness,

If I'm led by the spirit that means no adultery, no prostitution, no uncleanness (dietary?) no wantoness?
That sounds very legalistic!

(CLV) Ga 5:20
idolatry, enchantment, enmities, strife, jealousies, furies, factions, dissensions, sects,

Wait there's MORE?!? No idolatry, enchantment, enmities, strife, jealousies, furies, factions, dissensions, sects? This is starting to sound like the Torah?

(CLV) Ga 5:21
envies, murders, drunkennesses, revelries, and the like of these, which, I am predicting to you, according as I predicted also, that those committing such things shall not be enjoying the allotment of the kingdom of God.

...and MORE?!?

Apparently this spirit led thing doesn't mean we can ignore the law. It looks like we have to sustain the law!

It's like living in the spirit, is like living in the spirit of the law; as though the father writes his law on our hearts. I guess it's like if you don't break the law; you are not under the force of the law.

Oh wait a minute. It looks like that is exactly what Paul was trying to tell us,

(CLV) Ro 3:31
Are we, then, nullifying law through faith? May it not be coming to that! Nay, we are sustaining law.

coffee4u · Jan 31, 2020

renniks said:
We are to live by the spirit, not the law.
Galatians 5
"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."
"But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,"

Thank you, your replies were better than mine. I've given up, he doesn't want to understand.

HARK! · Jan 31, 2020

renniks said:
Did Rahab keep all of the old testament laws? Truth is, even Abraham broke commandments, yet was justified by faith.

(CLV) Gn 26:5
inasmuch as your father Abraham hearkened to My voice and kept My charge, My instructions, My statutes and My laws.

(CLV) Lk 1:5
There came to be, in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zechariah, of the routine of Abiah, and his wife, of the daughters of Aaron, and her name is Elizabeth.

(CLV) Lk 1:6
Now they were both just in front of God, going in all the precepts and just statutes of the Lord, blameless.

(CLV) Isa 2:2
And it will come to pass in the latter days, The Mount of the House of Yahweh shall be established on the summit of the mountains, And it shall be lifted up above the hills, And all the nations will stream unto it.

(CLV) Isa 2:3
Many peoples will come and say: Come, and let us ascend to the Mount of Yahweh, To the house of the Elohim of Jacob; And He shall direct us out of His ways, So that we may indeed walk in His paths. For from Zion shall go forth the law, And the word of Yahweh from Jerusalem.

renniks · Jan 31, 2020

HARK! said:
Let's look at this carefully, in context.

(CLV) Ga 5:18
Now, if you are led by spirit, you are not still under law.

Not under the law...

(CLV) Ga 5:19
Now apparent are the works of the flesh, which are adultery, prostitution, uncleanness, wantonness,

If I'm led by the spirit that means no adultery, no prostitution, no uncleanness (dietary?) no wantoness?
That sounds very legalistic!

(CLV) Ga 5:20
idolatry, enchantment, enmities, strife, jealousies, furies, factions, dissensions, sects,

Wait there's MORE?!? No idolatry, enchantment, enmities, strife, jealousies, furies, factions, dissensions, sects? This is starting to sound like the Torah?

(CLV) Ga 5:21
envies, murders, drunkennesses, revelries, and the like of these, which, I am predicting to you, according as I predicted also, that those committing such things shall not be enjoying the allotment of the kingdom of God.

...and MORE?!?

Apparently this spirit led thing doesn't mean we can ignore the law. It looks like we have to sustain the law!

It's like living in the spirit, is like living in the spirit of the law; as though the father writes his law on our hearts. I guess it's like if you don't break the law; you are not under the force of the law.

Oh wait a minute. It looks like that is exactly what Paul was trying to tell us,

(CLV) Ro 3:31
Are we, then, nullifying law through faith? May it not be coming to that! Nay, we are sustaining law.

You're putting the cart before the horse. Yes, if you're truly being led by the Spirit there's a lot of things you are not going to participate in. But avoiding those things doesn't save you. And in fact, God saves people who didn't keep these perfectly, because no one ever kept them all!
Why is Paul able to predict that people that live this lifestyle won't be in heaven? Because their fruits show who they are, not because the fruits save or damn them.
Galatians 3:
" those who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."

Clearly, you are not going to be justified by keeping the cursed law.

"But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”
Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith....
For if the inheritance could be received by keeping the law, then it would not be the result of accepting God’s promise. But God graciously gave it to Abraham as a promise.
Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people.

The law is over and done. Christ has come, the cursed law is no longer in effect, thank God!
We would all be doomed if we had to live by the law. It's impossible. And it makes Christ's sacrifice useless to go back to the cursed law.

HARK! · Jan 31, 2020

renniks said:
no one ever kept them all!

Proof?

renniks said:
Galatians 3:
" those who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."

Why are you directing this verse at me? When did I say that I rely on observing the law for justification?
You make some pretty bold assumptions.

renniks said:
Clearly, you are not going to be justified by keeping the cursed law.

"But it shall come about, if you do not obey the LORD your God, to observe to do all His commandments and His statutes with which I charge you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:

(CLV) Ja 2:17
Thus, also, is faith, if it should not have works: it is dead by itself.

(CLV) Ja 2:18
But someone will be declaring, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from the works and I shall be showing you my faith by my works.

(CLV) Ja 2:19
You are believing that God is one. Ideally are you doing. The demons also are believing and are shuddering.

(CLV) Ja 2:20
Now are you wanting to know, O empty man, that faith apart from works is dead?

(CLV) Ja 2:21
Abraham, our father, was he not justified by works when offering up his son Isaac on the altar?

(CLV) Ja 2:22
You are observing that faith worked together with his works, and by works was faith perfected.

renniks said:
Clearly, you are not going to be justified by keeping the cursed law.

(CLV) Ja 2:21
Abraham, our father, was he not justified by works when offering up his son Isaac on the altar?

renniks said:
the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised

Peter comments on Paul's writings:

(CLV) 2Pt 3:16
as also in all the epistles, speaking in them concerning these things, in which are some things hard to apprehend, which the unlearned and unstable are twisting, as the rest of the scriptures also, to their own destruction.

Now if Paul says something, that in your mind, contradicts what Yahshua said; who are you going to go with?

Yahshua said:

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring~.

renniks said:
And it makes Christ's sacrifice useless to go back to the cursed law.

The Moedim were kept by the Apostles and disciples of the early ecclesia (church) LONG after Yahsua ascended.

The Moedim will kept in the Millennial Kingdom.

Isa 56:7 “Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on My altar; for My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations."

Zech 14:16-18 “And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.”

renniks · Jan 31, 2020

HARK! said:
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring~.

Till all shall be fulfilled, and it is all fulfilled!
The “all things” are the great facts of Jesus' life, death, resurrection, and the establishment of the kingdom of God. The words do not assert, as at first they seem to do, the perpetual obligation even of the details of the Law, but the limit up to which the obligation was to last; so they are not inconsistent with the words which speak of the system of the Law as a whole as “decaying and waxing old, and ready to vanish away” (Hebrews 8:13)

It is finished. The old covenant is fulfilled. The ceremonial laws are no longer in effect.

Now look at what Jesus does next. He redefines the law. He says: "you have heard it said... But I say." He deliberately lays out the law of love and redefines what it means to follow God. He even says to give no thought to what you eat or drink. Under the law, you have to give all these details much thought.

HARK! · Jan 31, 2020

renniks said:
The ceremonial laws are no longer in effect.

Why do you keep ignoring this?

The Moedim were kept by the Apostles and disciples of the early ecclesia (church) LONG after Yahsua ascended.

The Moedim will kept in the Millennial Kingdom.

Isa 56:7 “Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on My altar; for My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations."

Zech 14:16-18 “And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.”

PASSOVER

“And this day shall be unto youfor a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD {Yahweh} throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance FOREVER.” (Exodus 12:14)

UNLEAVENED BREAD

“And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance FOREVER.” (Exodus 12:17)

SHAVUOT (Feast of Weeks)

“And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute FOREVER in all your dwellings throughout your generations.” (Leviticus 23:21)

YOM KIPPUR

Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute FOREVER throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

FEAST OF TABERNACLES (Booths / Sukkot)

And ye shall keep it a feast unto YHWH seven days in the year. It shall be a statute FOREVER in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month.(Leviticus 23:41)

guevaraj · Jan 31, 2020

HARK! said:
Why do you keep ignoring this?

Happy Sabbath brothers and sisters!

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. (2 Timothy 4:3 NIV)

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

HARK! · Jan 31, 2020

guevaraj said:
Happy Sabbath brothers and sisters!

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. (2 Timothy 4:3 NIV)

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Shabbat shalom, Jorge.

LiquidCat · Jan 31, 2020

123flower said:
I've been reading about the food laws. Some christians believes you may eat all meat and some believes you may only eat clean meat.

I don't know what is right. The christians I know eat all meat. Some arguments are that we are not under the law anymore and Peter's vision (but Peters visions was about the gentiles to my opinion).

But in the Old Testament God warns us about eating unclean meat, especially the shellfish and crustaceans where he repeats multiple times that it is an abomination. Now science also says pork, shellfish and crustaceans are full of toxins and bad for your health. So thats makes it more sense to keep the commandment and not eat pork, shellfish and crustaceans anymore.

And what about blood in meat? God has warned us about that a couple times in the Old Testament and also in the New Testament.

So what's right? I don't know it anymore. I am actually more convinced to obey the food laws. But circumstances makes it difficult to obey the food laws. It's not a problem for me to not eat pork, shellfish and crustaceans anymore. The problem is that there are not really shops in my country that sells kosher meat to buy chicken and beef. There is actually only one kosher butcher in my country and the prices are expensive too. My husband would never agree with that. We are not rich. So that's not an option.

Does God mind that I still eat chicken and beef with blood in it, because I have no other choice?

You can eat meat , there is prophecy about end times of people preventing others from eating meat ( vegans) , also people who don't are called "weak in faith" by Paul.
You should not eat blood cause it will make you sick but you can , same as you should not shot yourself with a gun cause you would die but you can.

There are no laws for us today everything is permitted for consumption including alcohol.

After Jesus risen and cleaned meat , he had to tell Peter himself to eat it cause he didnt want to because he "never ate anything unclean" untill then, same like you because you ask this question.

Also never listen to what "people " or "other christians" do , read Bible for yourself and find out. People are often using some sort of stupid tradition rather than following what word of God says , example from my country:
We are not allowed to eat "meat" but fish is fine, like it's 2020 do people actually still think that fish is not meat it really bothers me how stupid some people can be.
So you would see various dishes prepared for Christmas eve without meat but they would include fish and like nobody see a problem with it lol.

HARK! · Jan 31, 2020

LiquidCat said:
there is prophecy about end times of people preventing others from eating meat

Book, Chapter, Verse?

seeking.IAM · Feb 1, 2020

I ate a ham and cheese sandwich this week. I rather fancy shrimp. I know all the texts and sentiments saying we are not under the law but a new covenant. But help me with this. In various topical discussions about relativism on CF, adherents are quick to argue that God does not change His mind. So help me understand: if God called this thing an "abomination" (i.e. something detestable) in the Old Testament, is it any less detestable to Him today? Or in the New Covenant did He just give in and give us permission to eat these things he hates? :scratch:

Dkh587 · Feb 1, 2020

seeking.IAM said:
I ate a ham and cheese sandwich this week. I rather fancy shrimp. I know all the texts and sentiments saying we are not under the law but a new covenant. But help me with this. In various topical discussions about relativism on CF, adherents are quick to argue that God does not change His mind. So help me understand: if God called this thing an "abomination" (i.e. something detestable) in the Old Testament, is it any less detestable to Him today? Or in the New Covenant did He just give in and give us permission to eat these things he hates?

eating unclean animals is just as abominable as any other abomination - homosexuality is an abomination, too. Really, in general, sin is abominable to God. Also, eating unclean animals defiles a person by eating it - read Leviticus 11 and see what God himself said.

leviticus 11:43-45

Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby.

For I am YHWH your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

For I am YHWH that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.

Did you know that the first time we see “be holy, for I am holy” is in Leviticus 11 after God spoke about clean and unclean animals?

BobRyan · Feb 1, 2020

Wayne Gabler said:
These verse would apply to your question I believe.
Col:2:16:
Let no man therefore judge you in meat,
or in drink,
or in respect of an holyday,
or of the new moon,
or of the sabbath days:

does not say "ignore the Bible" rather it says to beware of the judging of others ... which means it is still just fine to drink... but don't drink poison still applies.
just find to eat... but don't eat rats, cats, bats -- still applies
etc.

Wayne Gabler said:
Ac:10:9-16:
On the morrow,
as they went on their journey,
and drew nigh unto the city,
Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
And he became very hungry,
and would have eaten:
but while they made ready,
he fell into a trance,
And saw heaven opened,
and a certain vessel descending unto him,
as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners,
and let down to the earth:
Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth,
and wild beasts,
and creeping things,
and fowls of the air.
And there came a voice to him,
Rise,
Peter;
kill,
and eat.
But Peter said,
Not so,
Lord;
for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
And the voice spake unto him again the second time,
What God hath cleansed,
that call not thou common.
This was done thrice:
and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

Does not say that Peter started eating rats in Acts 10. Rather it says that he started evangelizing gentiles that day for God had showed him "call no MAN unclean" -- not "please eat rat sandwiches".

Peter gives that same explanation 3 times.

Wayne Gabler said:
Ac:15:20:
But that we write unto them,
that they abstain from pollutions of idols,
and from fornication,
and from things strangled,
and from blood.

Does not mention "Love God with all your heart" and does not mention "honor your father and mother" -- but that does not mean it is ok to break those commandments.

Al Touthentop · Feb 1, 2020

seeking.IAM said:
I ate a ham and cheese sandwich this week. I rather fancy shrimp. I know all the texts and sentiments saying we are not under the law but a new covenant. But help me with this. In various topical discussions about relativism on CF, adherents are quick to argue that God does not change His mind. So help me understand: if God called this thing an "abomination" (i.e. something detestable) in the Old Testament, is it any less detestable to Him today? Or in the New Covenant did He just give in and give us permission to eat these things he hates?

Read the Noah story again. Prior to the flood there were unclean and clean animals. After the flood everything was clean. Then when the law of Moses was delivered, unclean and clean animals were again introduced.

Dkh587 · Feb 2, 2020

Al Touthentop said:
Read the Noah story again. Prior to the flood there were unclean and clean animals. After the flood everything was clean. Then when the law of Moses was delivered, unclean and clean animals were again introduced.

That makes no sense and is very inaccurate.

Can we eat pork, shellfish and crustaceans? And what about blood in meat?

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