False gospels do not require you to overcome sin

A_Thinker said:

Part of the issue, I think, ... is that you are picking up on a discussion between myself and another poster. In so doing, some degree of confusion has ensued.

Click to expand...

Fine, but we were talking about you accusing someone of stating we need to be perfect. Why make a big deal out of the false accusation? Because of the bigger picture, as in, it happens all too often. FWIW, I'd like both sides to take note of the things we do to defend our end of this, because it tells an interesting story.

Be truthful always, and if we can't do that, maybe there's a problem.

Kenny'sID said:

And you don't think David was in a bad place sin wise when he was planning and following through? I guess I didn't understand you because what I said seemed so obvious to me.

Click to expand...

I didn't say that David was not in a bad place ... he very truly was.

What saves David, in this instance, is his established relationship with God. It is God who sends Nathan to David ... to bring him to his senses, and to repentance. Which is what occurs.

Now, undoubtably, David was not the only sinful man in Israel at the time. But God sent Nathan to David ... because of His relationship with David which had already been established.

That's the way it works with those of us who have relationships to God. The relationship doesn't mean that we cannot sin, though we certainly know better than to sin. But, because we have relationship with God, when we sin, God responds to us as one in relationship to Him. He convicts us, ... He may chasten us, ... He orders events in our lives so as to move us to repentance. So long as we remain in our sin ... He will work in our lives to bring us to repentance. Sometimes that process is short, ... sometimes it takes awhile (think upon the Prodigal Son), ... but God knows what to do to bring us back to conformance with His will.

And when we repent, ... He forgives us.

Saul ... the prior king ... was the opposite example. Though his sins may not have been nearly so grievous as David's, ... Saul refused to repent.

What I see from their example is not a difference between one king who sinned, ... and another who did not. The difference was in how they responded to God's conviction and call for repentance of their sin.

The difference lies within how we relate to God.

Kenny'sID said:

Fine, but we were talking about you accusing someone of stating we need to be perfect.

Click to expand...

I think that we may need to define our terms.

In this thread, we have been discussing sinlessness. Do you agree ?

Do you equate that to (moral) perfection ?

A_Thinker said:

What saves David, in this instance, is his established relationship with God. It is God who sends Nathan to David ... to bring him to his senses, and to repentance. Which is what occurs.

Click to expand...

Right, he repented and started acting right again instead of continuing to live in sin. Or do you believe he would have been saved if he had continued to do evil?

Seems to me, for the most part, you are just making our point.

A_Thinker said:

I think that we may need to define our terms.

In this thread, we have been discussing sinlessness. Do you agree ?

Do you not equate that to (moral) perfection ?

Click to expand...

Whatever, I'm done with that. You now know what happened, and that's all I was trying to get across..

Kenny'sID said:

Right, he repented and started acting right again instead of continuing to live in sin. Or do you believe he would have been saved if he had continued to do evil?

Click to expand...

You do realize that David sinned again after the Bathsheba episode, correct ?

The life of David, the "man after God's own heart", was filled with moral successes ... and failures. What saves David is not the absence of sin from his life. What saves David is his willingness to preserve his relationship God through repentance, ... and forgiveness.

Kenny'sID said:

Whatever, I'm done with that. You now know what happened, and that's all I was trying to get across..

Click to expand...

Do you equate sinlessness with (moral) perfection ?

Or would you prefer not to answer ?

A_Thinker said:

Do you equate sinlessness with (moral) perfection ?

Or would you prefer not to answer ?

Click to expand...

Go back and pick up all the questions I asked you but you didn't answer, and answer them, then we can talk.

Kenny'sID said:

Go back and pick up all the questions I asked you but you didn't answer, and answer them, then we can talk.

Click to expand...

Which questions were those ?

A_Thinker said:

You do realize that David sinned again after the Bathsheba episode, correct ?

Click to expand...

We will all "sin again"...what is your point?

You simply don't want to see the difference in living in sin and sinning on occasion and then seeking forgiveness, at which point God is just and faithful to forgive us. I guess that's is because once you admit there is a difference, it would walk all over your beliefs..

Serious question, do you have some particular bad sin or sins that you are doing regularly?

A_Thinker said:

Which questions were those ?

Click to expand...

The ones you didn't answer. It's not fair for you to skip them, and then have me go back and search them out for you, but they're easy enough to find if you want to spend the time.

Kenny'sID said:

We will all "sin again"...what is your point?

Click to expand...

That reality does not describe sinlessness, which was the topic being discussed.

Kenny'sID said:

You simply don't want to see the difference in living in sin and sinning on occasion and then seeking forgiveness, at which point God is just and faithful to forgive us.

Click to expand...

Look, I believe in being Biblical. The Bible makes no difference between types of sin ... or frequencies at which sins may be committed.

Biblically, ALL sin is a violation of God's law ... and deserving of spiritual death.

OTOH, God has determined to forgive ALL sin ... upon our confession and repentance. Jesus died on the cross to atone for ALL sin. There is only one sin that Jesus taught is unforgivable.

To access God's forgiveness of our sin, we must be in relationship with Him. This is an opportunity which is available to all people. When we accept His gospel and believe in His power to save us, God rebirths our spiritual lives and begins the work of growing us up into the character of Christ. That involves leading and guiding us to avoid sin, and, yet, to forgive us for the sins that we might yet commit. Depending upon the person, those sins might be more or less grievous (in our eyes) ... or more or less frequent (in our eyes). However, God is willing to forgive them all when we ask.

Committed sin should become less and less a part of our lives as we progress in our relationship with God. Such is God's desire for His children.

Kenny'sID said:

Serious question, do you have some particular bad sin or sins that you are doing regularly?

Click to expand...

No, ... though, admittedly, I am not perfect ... nor sinless ...

Kenny'sID said:

The ones you didn't answer. It's not fair for you to skip them, and then have me go back and search them out for you, but they're easy enough to find if you want to spend the time.

Click to expand...

You must realize that that's a subjective assessment. In my view, I have answered every question which has been presented to me in this discussion.

If you have questions you believe were not answered, it is up to you to make those questions known ...

NBB said:

Your fellowship with God gets hurt if you start sinning, and i was talking about the filling of the HS, which i don't know if you believe as i do about it, the spirit does not totally abandon you but you can't expect to sin a lot and be close to God, or stay filled with the HS. In my experience at least.

Click to expand...

I pretty much agree with you here.

NBB said:

God does not abandon us, and he has a lot of patience and love us, but we just can't expect sinning a lot and that our 'fellowship' with him is not going to suffer, something is going to happen to your relationship with God, and fellowship in the spirit. Yes God still is going to treat us as his childs, and we can later overcome the sins and be restored perfectly, etc. But there are some consequences to sinning, like i said.

Click to expand...

And I agree with you here ...

BCsenior said:

False gospels do not require you to overcome sin, but they sure are popular!

Will a full page of 10 proof verses be enough, or do you require 5 pages of 50 verses?

“If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed,
rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched” (Mark 9:43)
Do you think Jesus is deadly serious about getting rid of sin?

“… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey,
whether (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death,
or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness …
For when you were slaves of sin … the end of those things is (eternal) death.
… For the wages of sin is (eternal) death …” (Romans 6:16-23)

“For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things
of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.” (Romans 8:5-6)

“For if you live by its dictates, you will die (spiritually). But if through the power of the Spirit
you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live (eternally).
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.” (Romans 8:13-14)

“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?
Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,
nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners
will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

“Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness,
lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outburst of wrath, selfish
ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like;
of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those
who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21)

“Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.
For he who sows to his flesh (sins) will of the flesh reap corruption,
but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.” (Galatians 6:7-8)

“But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you,
as is fitting for saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting …
For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater,
has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words,
for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.” (Ephesians 5:3-6)

“Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved,
he will receive the crown of (eternal) life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him
… But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown,
brings forth (eternal) death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.” (James 1:12-16)

“God’s will is for you to be holy … live in holiness and honor …
God has called us to live holy lives, not impure lives.
So, anyone who refuses to live by these rules is rejecting God.” (1 Thessalonians 4:3-8)

Click to expand...

True gospels fully yield and submit to God to overcome sin for you.

In the end, etc.

Or when man comes to end of himself and his own works/efforts/exertion and/or the law, etc...

Which was or is the true purpose of the law, etc.

And if you haven't fully realized or done that yet, then your not in or under the NC yet, but are still in and under the Old, and are still cursed and are still enemies of God and still under a curse, and are going (fighting) against His will (still), etc.

God Bless!

BCsenior said:

From what I hear, only about 95% of American churches!
But, everyone's excuse is, "Have you been to all of the churches?"
IOW, they're in denial of the super-popular "easy-believism" gospel prevalent today!

Meanwhile, you're going to tell me that your church preaches against sin?

Click to expand...

Not very often, but hear me out. While they may not preach it very often, I have been through more conviction/sanctification in my church than any other church I have ever been too (and that involves different denominations across the board). I guess we just believe that God does work on us believers who are following him. But I agree in the sense that sin in general isn’t preached very much anywhere from what I’ve experienced.

A_Thinker said:

If you have questions you believe were not answered, it is up to you to make those questions known ...

Click to expand...

I made them known when I asked them, you skipped them because you couldn't answer without incriminating yourself and now you are avoiding them again using nonsense that I should, what? Ask them again? Go look them up for you?

A_Thinker said:

Look, I believe in being Biblical. The Bible makes no difference between types of sin ... or frequencies at which sins may be committed.

Click to expand...

The type sin is not really the issue, and like I said, you simply don't want to understand the difference in living in sin and not living in sin. Even right there you switch the subject to different types of sin, and although the following will show you there are some really bad sins that we best not "practice" the point is also that we should not "practice" them, as in living in sin.

On the term "practice", let's take a doctor who practices medicine, we've all heard the term, that means the doctor does that regularly, and it's just that simple. We sin regularly, especially with some of the sin that follows, we blow it when it comes to getting to heaven.

You want "biblical"? then here it is, and the following cannot be more clear, please don't complicate it:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 ESV / 84 helpful votes
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

1 John 3:4-9 ESV / 72 helpful votes
Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. ...