Prophets, predictions and wonders

JacksBratt · Dec 12, 2019

mindlight said:
Of course I agree with this post.

But in the case of Muhammad how would you explain his enduring appeal to more than a billion people.

People are impressionable. Sports figures, musicians, artists, people of beauty and those who are eloquent in speaking and motivation have had enduring appeal to the masses of their time.... It has nothing to do with any truth or actual omniscient power. They are all still just mere mortal humans.

mindlight said:
The most powerful lies must carry an element of truth with them.

Yep.... a little dash of truth will carry the massive lie a long way.... It's still a lie.

mindlight said:
In the case of Muhammad the challenge to idolatry and the call to put God first, to behave righteously in fear of Gods judgment were all reasonable requests.

And that's were it stopped... This was the noose that hung you on the rest of the lie.

Aussie Pete · Dec 12, 2019

mindlight said:
If the job of the prophets was to prepare the way for Jesus, to anticipate him and his Kingdom then John can be forgiven for not predicting things that were already happening right in front of him. Apart from him most if not all the other prophets made predictions of some sort or at least indicated that they were a party to Gods plans in motion.

Yes a prophet shares truthes that disturb, overthrow and reform. He warns of punishments impending if urgent actions are not taken. He exposes our souls and tells us God sees all. He makes people angry but not for his own glory but rather because the absurdity of a world that is so distant from God compels him to challenge it. He is an affront to worldliness and yet few know his name. Today people are really hot on climate activism and people like Greta Thunberg are regarded as prophets of impending doom challenging a comfortable apathetic consensus with warnings of danger. But there is no mention of God on her lips. There are similar figures campaigning for gay rights, womens rights to abortion as if they were voices of freedom and of a coming reality that will overthrow the corrupt existing world order. But these people who take on the mantle of prophets do not speak for God.

What is the key difference between a Teacher and a prophet?

Some of his early "revelations" were quite edifying warnings of impending doom should people not turn back to God from idols. They had the prophetic quality of challenging an idolatrous existing order in Mecca. He made a lot of people angry there. But he never understood who Jesus was or the significance of the Virgin Birth. As you say he married Aisha who was only 6 consummating that relationship after her first period at aged 9-10. He waged war to spread his kingdom and it has proven oppressive to those he conquered even though they often welcomed him at first as less oppressive than the Greek theocratic Byzantines or the idolatrous Persians. Today the Muslim world is deeply oppressive and intolerant of free thought. Like the evil empire of communism a great many people in the Islamic world pay lip service to something they do not truly believe.

The key difference between a prophet and a teacher is in presentation. The prophet pretty much tells it like it is, directly from the heart of God, by revelation. The man who helped me so much knew his Bible inside out, yet he rarely quoted Bible verses. When I first met him, I checked almost everything he said because I wanted to be sure that I was hearing the truth. I could never fault him. Maybe twice I disagreed because I had a preconceived notion. He set me straight immediately - from the Bible.

The teacher expounds the revelation. I run a short term Bible School. I have at least one verse to cover everything I teach. An example is the curriculum. Curriculum - Christian Life Bible School Frankston

I am an explainer, which drives some people close to me nuts. I never use one word if 10 will do. I also repeat myself and use a lot of examples. This is not learned. I've never studied teaching techniques.

tturt · Dec 12, 2019

Most folks emphasis false prophets for now. To have the false, then there' are the true prophets of God.

"Despise not prophesyings." "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." I Thess 5:20-21 It's what they say that's to be tested

Not one believer is perfect in their service to Him

A Realist · Dec 12, 2019

Paulus59 said:
Yep, I have come across them on this forum.

...and they're easy to spot. They're the ones who will vehemently disagree with you when referred to as "so-called" prophets.

S.O.J.I.A. · Dec 12, 2019

Douggg said:
In Daniel 11:40, near the end of the 7 years, the beast will be attacked by the king of the south. imo, the king of the south will be leader of united African nations - which your flag indicates that you support that movement. So some uniting of the African nations will probably happen. Someone like Julius Malema could end up being that leader,

cool story bro,

mistakenly posted in the wrong thread...oops....in the eschatology forum...double oops.

Maria Billingsley · Dec 12, 2019

keras said:
Most Bible Prophets have prophecies that have not happened.

Can you give me a few examples? It is hard to understand your comment, most prophecies are about The Messiah. Thanks.

Hawkins · Dec 12, 2019

It boils down to the question that if an invisible entity visited you, how can you tell that He's God?

There are basically two things humans cannot do, 1) break our physics laws, and 2) tell a future.

God showed up to His chosen witnesses, while His witnesses are called prophets for a reason.

They have to experience either miracles or future telling or both for them to identify themselves as well as God.

However, it's not necessary for God to perform miracles or future-telling through the prophets. God perform miracles and prophecies through the prophets for a reason. It's to allow other humans, besides the prophets themselves, to witness with their own eyes that God is with His prophets. Such that the prophets' testimonies will convey among humans. This is a necessary step for a book of testimonies to be included in the Bible.

Acts 14:3 (NIV2011)
So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to perform signs and wonders.

When a miracle is performed through God's witnesses, or a prophecy from God comes to pass through the mouth of the witnesses, it is thus confirmed that the message the prophets have at hand is from God but no one else. That's the way how an important message is confirmed by God Himself.

That's how a prophet knows himself as well as an important message from God. All prophets acquire information from God directly in a pattern. Mohammad is a joke because he got his info from a self claimed "angel" instead.

Maria Billingsley · Dec 12, 2019

mindlight said:
There is nothing truly predictive here, he simply knows Jesus and dedicates and sacrifices his life to prepare a way for him.

You are missing one very important prediction. The Holy Spirit that will dwell in all believers.

"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

DamianWarS · Dec 12, 2019

mindlight said:
There are great many biblical prophets who said things before they happened and performed wonders also. Elijah and Elisha for instance. Agabus in the New Testament predicted a famine and the two witnesses who will stand in Jerusalem will bring down judgments on the angry nations and proclaim the coming King who will arrive shortly after they are resurrected.

But when I suggested that Muhammad was not a true prophet because he made no predictions and performed no wonders a number of Christian commentators suggested this did not matter for his recognition as a prophet.

So simple question: Are wonders and predictions essential features of a Christian prophet or is it enough to be an affirming oracle of Gods Kingdom testifying to Jesus?

All prophets in Islam are found in the bible (except Muhammad), but not necessarily called a prophet in the bible. Some we would think are odd, like Adam, Lot or David (all prophets in Islam). so it is clear their criteria are perhaps different and it may stem from adopting values like saints but just using a different word from opposition to heretical Christian idolatry practices in the AP.

My Son's name is Jesse and where I currently live there is a lot of Muslims but the name Jesse is spelt "Jesi" and is a girl's name so people don't quite identify with this western name I called my firstborn son. I used to say its the same name of King's David's Father and it was kind of understood but it meant very little. So I changed my language and said it's the same name of the Father of "Nabi Daud" (prophet Daivd) and the response to this was completely different. There was no identity to David's Father and there was also no identify to King David as those are both Christians identifications. But there was an identity with the prophet David and although no one probably knew Jesse (it would be spelt Yesai) I was able to draw a connection by using the right language.

So is Muhammad a prophet? He isn't for Christians (or Jews) but with Muslims, he is the greatest and if you start debating about the semantics of what a prophet is it will only create conflict and I wouldn't recommend it as an evangelistic strategy. I wait for people to ask me what I think 'x' is before I offer my unsolicited and unwanted opinion of how they got it wrong.

Remember the conversation with Jesus and Peter? it ended with Jesus saying "for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven" so when we are challenging deeply ingrained systems we need to recognize our role and that no matter how perfect your argument is there are somethings flesh and blood can not defeat and we need to wait upon revelation from the Father in order for there to be shifts.

Lazarus Short · Dec 12, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
"We should test those who claim to be prophets. It’s in the Bible, 1 John 4:1, NKJV. "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world."

Beware of prophets who do not keep the laws of God, even if they perform miracles. It’s in the Bible, Matthew 7:22-23, NKJV. “Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’”

Don’t listen to prophets that speak against the Bible. It’s in the Bible, Isaiah 8:20, NKJV. “To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”"

The above points out that Mohammad was a false prophet. He was a robber, pedophile and mass murderer. Further, his teachings are not compatible with the teachings of the Bible.

keras · Dec 12, 2019

Maria Billingsley said:
Can you give me a few examples? It is hard to understand your comment, most prophecies are about The Messiah. Thanks.

The prime example is how the Lord will reset our civilization; which is now once again, as in the days of Noah. Jesus said He would correct this situation, Matthew 24:3-44
This event; by fire sent from the heavens, 2 Peter 3:7, is what is often called the Day the Lord comes as a thief, unexpected and shocking everyone.
Millions will be killed on that terrible Day of extreme heat, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis. Isaiah 66:15-17, Jeremiah 25:33, Isaiah 63:1-6, Ezekiel 21:1-8, Zephaniah 1:2-18, Revelation 6:12-17

This forthcoming Day, will set the scene for all the rest that must happen until Jesus Returns in glory, seen by everyone. He destroys the attacking armies in the holy Land by the Sword of His Word and chains up Satan. Revelation 19:11-21

keras · Dec 12, 2019

Lazarus Short said:
The above points out that Mohammad was a false prophet. He was a robber, pedophile and mass murderer. Further, his teachings are not compatible with the teachings of the Bible.

Islam is Satans counterfeit religion. There is plenty of other false religions as well, but his major success is Islam.
It will be an Islamic confederation that will soon attempt to wipe out the Jewish State of Israel. That will be their downfall, as the Lord will destroy them all. Amos 5:9, Isaiah 34:2
INCLUDING the ungodly people in Israel; only a Christian Jewish remnant will survive. Romans 9:27

Maria Billingsley · Dec 12, 2019

keras said:
The prime example is how the Lord will reset our civilization; which is now once again, as in the days of Noah. Jesus said He would correct this situation, Matthew 24:3-44
This event; by fire sent from the heavens, 2 Peter 3:7, is what is often called the Day the Lord comes as a thief, unexpected and shocking everyone.
Millions will be killed on that terrible Day of extreme heat, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis. Isaiah 66:15-17, Jeremiah 25:33, Isaiah 63:1-6, Ezekiel 21:1-8, Zephaniah 1:2-18, Revelation 6:12-17

This forthcoming Day, will set the scene for all the rest that must happen until Jesus Returns in glory, seen by everyone. He destroys the attacking armies in the holy Land by the Sword of His Word and chains up Satan. Revelation 19:11-21

We can all agree that there will be a last day.

keras · Dec 12, 2019

Maria Billingsley said:
We can all agree that there will be a last day.

But the soon to happen: Great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and fiery wrath, Joel 2:30-31, Revelation 6:12-17, +, isn't the Last Day. It will be the first day of all the prophesied end time events.
Over 100 Bible prophesies tell us, with great detail what the Lord will use, [He used water in Noah's time] and its worldwide effects. Isaiah 24:1-13, 2 Peter 3:7,+

Paulus59 · Dec 13, 2019

A Realist said:
...and they're easy to spot. They're the ones who will vehemently disagree with you when referred to as "so-called" prophets.

Could be.

section9+1 · Dec 13, 2019

Rev. 19:10
The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

lsume · Dec 13, 2019

mindlight said:
There are great many biblical prophets who said things before they happened and performed wonders also. Elijah and Elisha for instance. Agabus in the New Testament predicted a famine and the two witnesses who will stand in Jerusalem will bring down judgments on the angry nations and proclaim the coming King who will arrive shortly after they are resurrected.

But when I suggested that Muhammad was not a true prophet because he made no predictions and performed no wonders a number of Christian commentators suggested this did not matter for his recognition as a prophet.

So simple question: Are wonders and predictions essential features of a Christian prophet or is it enough to be an affirming oracle of Gods Kingdom testifying to Jesus?

I suggest that you seek Christ with all that you have. He can give you answers directly. It’s important that we don’t get sidelined by matters of dogma that only Christ can resolve within you.

tturt · Dec 13, 2019

"But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort" I Cor 14:3

This is prophesy in general.

DavidPT · Dec 13, 2019

tturt said:
Most folks emphasis false prophets for now. To have the false, then there' are the true prophets of God.

It all depends on how one might look at it. For example.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

In order for there to be false christs there has to be a true Christ. And there indeed is, except the true Christ, meaning Jesus of course, is not currently dwelling among us physically. The same can be true about true prophets vs. false prophets. It's not required there have to be true prophets currently physically living among us in order for there to be false prophets currently physically living among us. That's not to say that there are no true prophets living among us then, because there indeed may be some living among us, but it is to say that it's not required that true prophets have to be living among us in order for false prophets to be living among us. I would think what I brought up about false christs vs the true Christ, at least somewhat proves my point.

tturt · Dec 13, 2019

God promises to

"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:" Acts 2:17

"Also, "For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted" I Cor 14:31

Prophets, predictions and wonders

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