Salvation Cannot be Lost

FreeGrace2 · Nov 14, 2019

S.ilvio said:
So you can shoot churches up with no repentance and be assured of your Salvation?

Sums up your strange Theology right there...

You can call Jesus' theology strange all you want. I don't care what you think about His theology. But I BELIEVE what He says about recipients of eternal life.

Your problem seems to be one of ignorance of grace. You seem to have no idea what it is even about.

Even the most moral person in history STILL can't earn God's favor and receive salvation. They STILL need the work of Jesus Christ on the cross for them just as much as for the VERY WORST sinner in history. There is NO DIFFERENCE.

But you seem to think how one lives their life has an eternal effect. And all without ANY evidence from Scripture.

The strange theology is yours, not the Bible's.

S.ilvio · Nov 14, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
You can call Jesus' theology strange all you want. I don't care what you think about His theology. But I BELIEVE what He says about recipients of eternal life.

Your problem seems to be one of ignorance of grace. You seem to have no idea what it is even about.

Even the most moral person in history STILL can't earn God's favor and receive salvation. They STILL need the work of Jesus Christ on the cross for them just as much as for the VERY WORST sinner in history. There is NO DIFFERENCE.

But you seem to think how one lives their life has an eternal effect. And all without ANY evidence from Scripture.

The strange theology is yours, not the Bible's.

Your corrupt understanding of Biblical Salvation is clear for all to see.

To suggest belief alone is enough is a fiction. Yet you hold on to this fiction with all your might as if being proved wrong is worse than actually working toward salvation...

FreeGrace2 · Nov 14, 2019

S.ilvio said:
Your corrupt understanding of Biblical Salvation is clear for all to see.

What a nonsense opinion.

To suggest belief alone is enough is a fiction.

"suggest"???!!! Far from it. I PRONOUNCE TO THE WORLD that ONLY belief in Christ for salvation results in salvation. And I've proven it, unlike yourself with your corrupt opinions.

Eph 2;8,9 refutes your opinions.

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast,

Those who see works in these verses regarding salvation, are just "seeing things".

You are looking for, and finding, what isn't even there.

You don't understand grace. You don't understand faith, and you don't understand works..

Yet you hold on to this fiction with all your might as if being proved wrong is worse than actually working toward salvation...

If you think you can work for salvation, you aren't even close to it.

That's just what the Pharisees thought too. Like yourself. And we know how that worked out.

This is what Jesus told them:

John 5:39,40
39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,
40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

To "come to Me" refers to faith alone in Him alone.

I think you may just find yourself in that same crowd that Jesus referenced in Matt 7:21-23. You and they will be slack-jawed. :swoon:

Phil W · Nov 14, 2019

S.ilvio said:
First of all apologies. I quoted the wrong post.

I kinda thought it was. Thanks.

However to suggest any believer cannot commit sin is a folly and patently untrue

It isn't really a question of can and can't, but of can and won't.
Those with the seed of God in them won't commit sin, as the seed of God within them dictates the kind of fruit we can bear.
Apple trees cannot bear onions and God's seed cannot bear liars, thieves, and adulterers.

We all sin. Every day. Twice on a Sunday too.

Then "we" are not reborn of God, seeing as "we" have not cast off the flesh with the affections and lusts.

The miracle of Salvation is the eternal Grace God offers us sinners that if we confess and show true repentance we can be with Him on Judgement Day...

True repentance form sin is...never sinning again.
Anything else is a partial repentance from sin, a false repentance, a lie to God.
If you truly turn from sin, you are an ex-sinner.

Phil W · Nov 14, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
The Bible refutes your notions quite clearly.
Rom 6-
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.
13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness.
2 Cor 12:21 - I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.
Eph 4:26 - “In your anger do not sin” : Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry,
1 John 1:8 - If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
1 John 2:1 - My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
These are verses TO believers ABOUT believers. Told to "not sin". The command PROVES not only the ability to sin, but that believers DO sin.

There is a stop sign on every corner. Does that mean you will never stop at the corner without a sign being posted there?
To imply folks are the children of the devil because they are told not to sin is ludicrous.

Please quote or at least cite any Scripture that says this.

1 John 3:8-10..."He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

Ever heard of a "policy statement". It's what people are SUPPOSED TO DO. Not at all what every person does.

If it something men are "supposed to do", it is a commandment.
Jesus' sheep fallow His commandments...and will be saved.

Or do you want to argue that God doesn't have any policy statements about behavior?

Lots of them, as by them we can determine who is and who is not "of God".

Again, Scripture refutes your claim.
Jesus taught that eternal life is currently possessed WHEN a person believes. John 5;24, 6:47.
Then Jesus taught that those given eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

By the tactics you have fallen for, the sins of many will determine their destruction.

S.ilvio · Nov 14, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
What a nonsense opinion.

"suggest"???!!! Far from it. I PRONOUNCE TO THE WORLD that ONLY belief in Christ for salvation results in salvation. And I've proven it, unlike yourself with your corrupt opinions.

Eph 2;8,9 refutes your opinions.

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast,

Those who see works in these verses regarding salvation, are just "seeing things".

You are looking for, and finding, what isn't even there.

You don't understand grace. You don't understand faith, and you don't understand works..

If you think you can work for salvation, you aren't even close to it.

That's just what the Pharisees thought too. Like yourself. And we know how that worked out.

This is what Jesus told them:

John 5:39,40
39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,
40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

To "come to Me" refers to faith alone in Him alone.

I think you may just find yourself in that same crowd that Jesus referenced in Matt 7:21-23. You and they will be slack-jawed.

So because you believe Christ is The Saviour, that gives you license to murder and desecrate a church, unrepentantly.

Weird Theology...

S.ilvio · Nov 14, 2019

Phil W said:
I kinda thought it was. Thanks.

It isn't really a question of can and can't, but of can and won't.
Those with the seed of God in them won't commit sin, as the seed of God within them dictates the kind of fruit we can bear.
Apple trees cannot bear onions and God's seed cannot bear liars, thieves, and adulterers.

Then "we" are not reborn of God, seeing as "we" have not cast off the flesh with the affections and lusts.

True repentance form sin is...never sinning again.
Anything else is a partial repentance from sin, a false repentance, a lie to God.
If you truly turn from sin, you are an ex-sinner.

No my friend. We are all unworthy sinners until the day we die...

Phil W · Nov 14, 2019

S.ilvio said:
No my friend. We are all unworthy sinners until the day we die...

You, by the grace of God, can remedy that by turning permanently from sin, and being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins...thereby killing the old man and being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
As you put it, "the day we die".
Having killed the flesh, or being circumcised by the circumcision of Christ without hands, we can walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.
We don't have to commit sin, and can't "in Christ".

S.ilvio · Nov 16, 2019

Phil W said:
You, by the grace of God, can remedy that by turning permanently from sin, and being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins...thereby killing the old man and being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
As you put it, "the day we die".
Having killed the flesh, or being circumcised by the circumcision of Christ without hands, we can walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.
We don't have to commit sin, and can't "in Christ".

Our free Will is God given. Therefore it never stops us from sinning and unrepentantly turning from God if we decide to do so...

JLB777 · Nov 16, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
You can call Jesus' theology strange all you want. I don't care what you think about His theology. But I BELIEVE what He says about recipients of eternal life.

People receive eternal life by being in Christ.

Those who are “in Christ” but do not remain “in Christ” no longer have the eternal life they once had when they were “in Christ”.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Here is how the scriptures teach us to remain “in Christ”.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

he who keeps His commandments abides in Him

Obeying Him, Hearing His voice, that results in following Him is we will receive eternal life.

The New Testament is filled with this principle of obeying Him, and receiving His promise of eternal life.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

Here is what Jesus said for His sheep to do -

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

Here is the result of obeying Him, in hearing and following Him -

And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;

again

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9

again

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God.

again

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

JLB

Phil W · Nov 16, 2019

S.ilvio said:
Our free Will is God given. Therefore it never stops us from sinning and unrepentantly turning from God if we decide to do so...

Our "free will" will stop us from committing sin...if that is our will.
It just depends on who we want to serve most.
God, or sin.

S.ilvio · Nov 17, 2019

Phil W said:
Our "free will" will stop us from committing sin...if that is our will.
It just depends on who we want to serve most.
God, or sin.

So you are perfect now..?

Phil W · Nov 17, 2019

S.ilvio said:
So you are perfect now..?

Yes, as it is my will to love and obey Him above all other things.

S.ilvio · Nov 17, 2019

Phil W said:
Yes, as it is my will to love and obey Him above all other things.

Wow. Your arrogance is quite astounding...

Phil W · Nov 17, 2019

S.ilvio said:
Wow. Your arrogance is quite astounding...

Arrogance?
Hardly, as it is all by the grace and mercy of God that I was led to a real repentance from sin.
Your minimizing of the reborn man's ability is what is astounding.
You have been posting about how salvation can be lost, well here is a post about saving, maintaining, that salvation.
Love God above all else and your neighbor as yourself.
Jesus died so we could be free from sin. (John 8:32-34)
I pray His death wasn't wasted on you.

S.ilvio · Nov 18, 2019

Phil W said:
Arrogance?
Hardly, as it is all by the grace and mercy of God that I was led to a real repentance from sin.
Your minimizing of the reborn man's ability is what is astounding.
You have been posting about how salvation can be lost, well here is a post about saving, maintaining, that salvation.
Love God above all else and your neighbor as yourself.
Jesus died so we could be free from sin. (John 8:32-34)
I pray His death wasn't wasted on you.

Of course Salvation can be lost as even people who accept Christ as our Saviour, we continue to sin and have our human imperfections.

Your claim to being perfect is a folly. A dangerous one too...

Phil W · Nov 24, 2019

S.ilvio said:
Of course Salvation can be lost as even people who accept Christ as our Saviour, we continue to sin and have our human imperfections.

Your claim to being perfect is a folly. A dangerous one too...

I don't know why you think that.
Jesus commanded our perfection in Matt 5:48.
Peter writes of it in 1Peter 4:1 and 2Peter 1:10.
As does Paul in 1Cor 15:34 and 2Tim 2:19.
John writes of it in 1John 3:9 and 1John 5:18.
Can you find one verse that says we will be slaves to sin for all our NT lives?

S.ilvio · Nov 25, 2019

"For in the case of those who have once been enlightened [and] have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame..." (Hebrews 6:4-6)

We need to be forgiven as we continue to commit new sins, and then , and only then,we can be assured of God’s forgiveness because he will be faithful to his promise to forgive if we confess our sins...

Phil W · Nov 25, 2019

S.ilvio said:
"For in the case of those who have once been enlightened [and] have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame..." (Hebrews 6:4-6)

We need to be forgiven as we continue to commit new sins, and then , and only then,we can be assured of God’s forgiveness because he will be faithful to his promise to forgive if we confess our sins...

Did you not read the Hebrews verse you posted?
If you (have partaken in enlightenment, the Holy Ghost, the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,) and have fallen away, you CAN'T be renewed by repentance.

GaveMeJoy · Nov 28, 2019

Neostarwcc said:
It wasn't just that one verse though. If it was just that one statement by Jesus I might say you have a point. But, it's taught THROUGHOUT the Bible. An example is John 6:37-40 that's listed as the one trump all argument. If a believers salvation can be lost than why did Jesus say that not a single believer given to him by God the Father will be lost? That he came here to do the Father's will and the Father's will is that EVERYONE who looks to the son and believes in him will have eternal life? There are many statements by both Jesus and throughout the Bible that state that God keeps his children eternally. Christ also said that the Holy Spirit will live inside of a believer for forever in literally every English translation of the Bible. If salvation can be lost than why does the HS live inside of a believer for forever? In other words, why would the Holy Spirit live inside of somebody that's in hell or continue to live inside of a lost person? He left Saul and it was threatened that the HS would be taken from David if he didn't change but in the New Covenant it's different. It just defies logic. Christ did NOT say that the HS lives in us temporarily.

It isn't just the one verse that protestants keep quoting it's MANY verses. If God doesn't keep and completely forgive his children than Jesus, Isaiah, Paul, Peter, John, Micah, David, Daniel, the writer of Hebrews ...etc all lied and the Bible isn't the word of God. Is that what you're claiming? Because by saying that salvation can be lost you're essentially calling all of them a liar and are claiming that.

my wife and I were missionaries and we started an organization to raise money for Christian missions and toured the world in a Christian band. After ten years of marriage she abandoned me and walked completely away from God. She now claims to not believe in God. Was she faking being a Christian for 25 years? We’re the missions trips all over the world pretend? Was she lying then or is she lying now? I used to believe in once saved always saved and then my wife lost her salvation before my eyes.

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