Salvation is a process of co-operation between man and God

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Steven Beck

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Well I don’t rip off my ot off my bible even though most of it after abram starting from genesis 12, are written to the Jews.

I love reading the 4 gospels to read about Jesus lessons to the Jews, but I know they are not directed to me

I am sorry GuoJing but ALL the bible is directed to YOU. From your name you are Chinese and China does not have a history of Christianity. There is a lack of good bible teachers and can understand your thinking. My wife is Chinese and she gets a headache reading the Chinese bible. :)

Try and find some good bible teachers.
 
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Guojing

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I am sorry GuoJing but ALL the bible is directed to YOU. From your name you are Chinese and China does not have a history of Christianity. There is a lack of good bible teachers and can understand your thinking. My wife is Chinese and she gets a headache reading the Chinese bible. :)

Try and find some good bible teachers.

You mean you still circumcise your male kids since Genesis 17:14 is warning YOU that you will be cut off if you don't do that?

Do you build an ark too, to prepare for the coming flood?
 
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Steven Beck

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You mean you still circumcise your male kids since Genesis 17:14 is warning YOU that you will be cut off if you don't do that?

Do you build an ark too, to prepare for the coming flood?

Mate they are lessons. Jesus is the ark so yes when you are in Jesus you are prepared for the flood and circumcision represents cutting the evil from your heart.

As I said, get a good bible teacher.
 
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Guojing

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Mate they are lessons. Jesus is the ark so yes when you are in Jesus you are prepared for the flood and circumcision represents cutting the evil from your heart.

As I said, get a good bible teacher.

I see, so you don't really believe that "ALL the bible is directed to YOU". Thanks for clarifying.
 
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Dave L

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Believers are accountable to the Lord God who saved them!
Dozens of NT verses teach that their salvation is conditional.
After the Holy Spirit indwells them, they are sanctified (set apart)
for further sanctification unto holiness. During this process, believers
are required to co-operate with the Holy Spirit’s efforts to sanctify them,
and to overcome sin, Satan, persecution, etc. (see Revelation 3:21).

There is only space below for some of the topics and “proof text” verses …

Believers are in a saved condition IF they are obedient
This is about obedience to Jesus’ teachings and commands. Continuing obedience is
what “being faithful” means. True believers love Jesus, and want to follow and obey Him!

● “If you love Me, obey My commandments …
Those who accept My commandments and obey them are the ones who love Me …
If anyone loves Me, he will obey My word” (John 14:15-23)

Truly, does anyone get into heaven who does not love Jesus?

Believers are obedient IF they are NOT habitual sinners
● “Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to death,
or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?
… so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.” (Romans 6:16-19)
● “Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness,
lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish
ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like;
of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past,
that those who practice such things will NOT inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21)


Believers are righteous IF they practice righteousnesss
● “… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous just as He is righteous.
He who sins is of the devil … Whoever has been born of God does NOT sin (habitually) …
In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: whoever does
NOT practice righteousness is NOT of God, NOR is he who does NOT love his brother.” (1 John 3:7-10)

Believers who are “faithful” will be obedient to Jesus’ commandments, and will practice righteousness!
● “… you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.” (1 John 2:29)
● “… who fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him”
(Acts 10:35)

Believers are in a saved condition IF they are repenting
“Repent (metanoeo) and believe (pisteou) may be understood as being opposite sides of the same coin.
… John used believe since this term included all of these ideas.” (The Holman Christian Standard Bible)

When they were first saved, believers were ONLY forgiven of their PAST sins …
● “… forgetting that they have been cleansed from their old sins.” (2 Peter 1:9)
“former sins”
(NASB, ESV) --- “past sins” (NIV, HCSB) --- “old sins” (NKJV, NLT, RSV)
● “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9)

Confession needs to be followed by repentance!
“This is an extremely important verse … all men need to be repeatedly purified from all unrighteousness,
from all their sins … We must confess our sins and turn from them” (The Applied New Testament Commentary)


Believers were chosen and called to live holy lives
● “God’s will is for you to be holy … live in holiness and honor … God has called us to live holy lives, not impure lives … anyone who refuses to live by these rules is rejecting God.”
(1 Thessalonians 4:3-8)
● “God has given us everything we need to live a godly life … Work hard to prove that you really are among those God has called and chosen … It would be better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it, and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life”
(2 Peter 1:3, 1:10, 2:21)
● “God’s discipline is always good for us, so that we might share in his holiness.
… work at living a holy life, for those who are NOT holy will NOT see the Lord.
… Be careful that you do not refuse to listen to the One who is speaking.” (Hebrews 12:10-25)


Believers faith must endure until the end of their lives
In the NT, the Greek indicates that “believe” is a present tense imperative verb!
Yes, a continuing belief-faith is necessary for continuing salvation-eternal life!

● “… whoever believes [present tense: continues to believe] in Him
may have
[present tense: may continue to have] eternal life. For God so loved the world,
that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes
[present tense: continues to believe] in Him
should not perish but have
[present tense: continue to have] eternal life.” (John 3:16)
● “… to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight — IF indeed you
continue in the faith … and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel” (Colossians 1:22-23)
● “It is this Good News (the gospel) that saves you,
IF you continue to believe the message I told you” (1 Corinthians 15:1-2)

“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” Philippians 2:13 (KJV 1900)

= God gets the glory.

Here's an illustration to help understand that we are never saved by obedience.

Salvation is as though Jesus loaded me on to his truck and is chauffeuring me to heaven. But I spend lots of time walking and running on the treadmill in the back of the truck. Many times just focussing on how well I can perform and maintain my health.

Of course this is all symbolic. The truck = the New Birth. The treadmill = exercising holiness in daily life. Because the New Birth makes me hunger and thirst after righteousness.

So my works do not save, but they form the likeness of Christ in me as I workout every day motivated by love.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Once you know God's love EVERYTHING changes. His love compels and draw us closer to Him. It is part of becoming His child.
“Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely: And they shall be my people, and I will be their God: And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them: And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me. Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul. For thus saith the Lord; Like as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭32:37-42‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Jeremiah 32:37-42 Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwe | King James Version (KJV) | Download The Bible App Now
Yes, but most people around us, just as always, most people on earth, just as it has been and is and will be, never find out. They choose to reject Jesus instead.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I see, so you don't really believe that "ALL the bible is directed to YOU". Thanks for clarifying.
That's a common error throughout the last 2000 years - people / religious leaders/ "thinking the Bible is directed" to them/ that they are blessed, that God's Blessings of Israel is for them too.... and it is part of the deception used, and on the wide path to destruction even those types of lessons are taught to prevent people from finding out the truth, to prevent them from finding the Kingdom of God.
 
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Guojing

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That's a common error throughout the last 2000 years - people / religious leaders/ "thinking the Bible is directed" to them/ that they are blessed, that God's Blessings of Israel is for them too.... and it is part of the deception used, and on the wide path to destruction even those types of lessons are taught to prevent people from finding out the truth, to prevent them from finding the Kingdom of God.

From my experience, when people say that all the Bible is directed to them, they are mainly only talking about the words of Jesus in the 4 gospels.

None so far really care about the verses in say haggai for example.
 
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BryanJohnMaloney

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The problem with this variation on the theme called "works righteousness," the process of working ones way to salvation by performing well in this life on Earth, thus winning God's approval...

...is that it sounds great in theory but no one knows how many or which deeds are sufficient. Not even the churches which teach this doctrine can tell you.

And nothing that we can do really merits such a payoff as eternal life (!) anyway.

If anyone tries to quantify or list the necessary good deeds, it looks patently ridiculous to say that 15 times of helping old ladies across the street, plus $5,000 contributed to the Red Cross, plus something else is adequate to insure one's salvation...but if you happen to fall short in any category, you miss out. It's absurd.

It is not a matter of "earning" salvation, it is a matter of active cooperation with God in His salvation of you or refusing to cooperate. We cannot initiate salvation, God must throw the life preserver to us, but it is up to us, after He has reached to us, to cling to salvation or wriggle out of it. We cannot earn it, but we can throw away this gift we cannot earn.

In Eastern Christianity, it is known as "synergy".
 
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BryanJohnMaloney

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From my experience, when people say that all the Bible is directed to them, they are mainly only talking about the words of Jesus in the 4 gospels.

None so far really care about the verses in say haggai for example.

Or Ecclesiastes.
 
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joshua 1 9

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The problem with this variation on the theme called "works righteousness," the process of working ones way to salvation by performing well in this life on Earth, thus winning God's approval...
We have a covenant relationship with God. All the promises of God are conditional. For example: "Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart". First our part is to Delight our-self in the Lord. If we do our part of the covenant then we can be sure that He will do His part.
 
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BryanJohnMaloney

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A metaphor, only a metaphor.

Our state: Drifting in a sea, drowsing, slowly drowning.
God: Throws out life preservers, of His own volition, that we did not earn nor ask for. Aims to bonk us on the head so we will wake up enough to grab them.
Our state: Bonked on the head, awakened by God, not our own ability, to this life preserver. We grab it or not. We did not earn and cannot earn the life preserver. We could not have ever been aware of it unless it had been aimed by God to awaken us to it, but the choice to cooperate or not is still freely given to us by God.

Like I said, a metaphor.
 
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BryanJohnMaloney

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You mean you still circumcise your male kids since Genesis 17:14 is warning YOU that you will be cut off if you don't do that?

Do you build an ark too, to prepare for the coming flood?

So, you have never read the Epistles or Acts.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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It’s obviously not clear to your reader, that is why I am asking you to clarify. Your post 59 in page 3 also mentioned nothing about this.
In other words re-read the Ephesians 2:8-11 citation which is in my first post as well as some of the successive posts...reflect on it...in the end it says it all.
 
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Guojing

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In other words re-read the Ephesians 2:8-11 citation which is in my first post as well as some of the successive posts...reflect on it...in the end it says it all.

the scripture you quoted was not saying works are required.

if you don’t want to clarify, I am fine too
 
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sea5763

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I think that God judges the heart not outward appearances. We should be doing our best to follow Christ but ultimately salvation Depends upon the mercifulness of God not ourselves, because no one is good enough except for Christ.

Romans 9:10-16

proverbs 21:2
 
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