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We were talking about BACs.Correct because the spiritually dead can't help themselves.
C'mon.
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We were talking about BACs.Correct because the spiritually dead can't help themselves.
Yes of course. However, those who are saved through Christ Jesus, who are in Christ Jesus and will be co-inheritors with Christ Jesus, proclaim Him not only as their Savior but Lord. The Lord part I think is what you are getting at. He cannot just be Savior because the Apostle Paul says those who proclaim Christ as Lord are saved. Christ being Lord is the significant part of those verses you quoted. Christ as Lord means we are subjects. The word I think Paul uses is doulos or slave when he refers to himself. It means we do what He says. We do so gladly because of the 'through Him, in Him and with Him.We were talking about BACs.
C'mon.
Believers are accountable to the Lord God who saved them!
Dozens of NT verses teach that their salvation is conditional.
After the Holy Spirit indwells them, they are sanctified (set apart)
for further sanctification unto holiness. During this process, believers
are required to co-operate with the Holy Spirit’s efforts to sanctify them,
and to overcome sin, Satan, persecution, etc. (see Revelation 3:21).
There is only space below for some of the topics and “proof text” verses …
Believers are in a saved condition IF they are obedient
This is about obedience to Jesus’ teachings and commands. Continuing obedience is
what “being faithful” means. True believers love Jesus, and want to follow and obey Him!
● “If you love Me, obey My commandments …
Those who accept My commandments and obey them are the ones who love Me …
If anyone loves Me, he will obey My word” (John 14:15-23)
Truly, does anyone get into heaven who does not love Jesus?
Believers are obedient IF they are NOT habitual sinners
● “Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to death,
or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?
… so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.” (Romans 6:16-19)
● “Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness,
lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish
ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like;
of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past,
that those who practice such things will NOT inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21)
Believers are righteous IF they practice righteousnesss
● “… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous just as He is righteous.
He who sins is of the devil … Whoever has been born of God does NOT sin (habitually) …
In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: whoever does
NOT practice righteousness is NOT of God, NOR is he who does NOT love his brother.” (1 John 3:7-10)
Believers who are “faithful” will be obedient to Jesus’ commandments, and will practice righteousness!
● “… you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.” (1 John 2:29)
● “… who fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him” (Acts 10:35)
Believers are in a saved condition IF they are repenting
“Repent (metanoeo) and believe (pisteou) may be understood as being opposite sides of the same coin.
… John used believe since this term included all of these ideas.” (The Holman Christian Standard Bible)
When they were first saved, believers were ONLY forgiven of their PAST sins …
● “… forgetting that they have been cleansed from their old sins.” (2 Peter 1:9)
“former sins” (NASB, ESV) --- “past sins” (NIV, HCSB) --- “old sins” (NKJV, NLT, RSV)
● “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9)
Confession needs to be followed by repentance!
“This is an extremely important verse … all men need to be repeatedly purified from all unrighteousness,
from all their sins … We must confess our sins and turn from them” (The Applied New Testament Commentary)
Believers were chosen and called to live holy lives
● “God’s will is for you to be holy … live in holiness and honor … God has called us to live holy lives, not impure lives … anyone who refuses to live by these rules is rejecting God.”
(1 Thessalonians 4:3-8)
● “God has given us everything we need to live a godly life … Work hard to prove that you really are among those God has called and chosen … It would be better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it, and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life”
(2 Peter 1:3, 1:10, 2:21)
● “God’s discipline is always good for us, so that we might share in his holiness.
… work at living a holy life, for those who are NOT holy will NOT see the Lord.
… Be careful that you do not refuse to listen to the One who is speaking.” (Hebrews 12:10-25)
Believers faith must endure until the end of their lives
In the NT, the Greek indicates that “believe” is a present tense imperative verb!
Yes, a continuing belief-faith is necessary for continuing salvation-eternal life!
● “… whoever believes [present tense: continues to believe] in Him
may have [present tense: may continue to have] eternal life. For God so loved the world,
that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes [present tense: continues to believe] in Him
should not perish but have [present tense: continue to have] eternal life.” (John 3:16)
● “… to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight — IF indeed you
continue in the faith … and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel” (Colossians 1:22-23)
● “It is this Good News (the gospel) that saves you,
IF you continue to believe the message I told you” (1 Corinthians 15:1-2)
Brother, this is all very nice and pretty and popular ...In the end God wants to get all the glory of your salvation. Surely in heaven you don’t want to keep hearing fellow believers saying “Guess what I have done to secure my place here?”
When we are in heaven we will throw all our crowns down at the feet of Jesus and telling him it’s all you.
I don’t want to be secretly thinking to myself “well I have x% role in this too”
to put it in another way, if God wants to get all the glory, let him do all the work
IMO, as with Ephesians 2:7-8, this refers to our initial receiving of the Holy SpiritTit 3 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
I think his point was by mentioning The Trinity in Salvation is the entire verse addresses our salvation. All of what was quoted needs to be in 'blue.'IMO, as with Ephesians 2:7-8, this refers to our initial receiving of the Holy Spirit
when we were born-again from above! ... I.E. This refers to God's initial grace.
We were initially saved re: the blue ... NOT by any works we have done!
But, then our co-operation needs to begin (ref: dozens of NT verses).
BTW, if you read the OP, did you notice the verse
that says we were ONLY forgiven of our sins PRIOR to salvation.
Salvation is a process ... and it can be lost.
Yes, but you had better stress that this is required for salvation!It means we are not left as orphans to figure out this sanctification on our own.
It also evokes the act of God in conforming us to the image of His Son.
Frankly the words of the NT have not changed since then. What I think has happened is there are some churches in the West which abandoned the NT for their own teachings.At that time, I believe that there was a pretty big emphasis upon living a holy life that we do not hear much about anymore.
And Christ is Faithful and True to keep His promises. We should be shaking in awe over this.Yes, but you had better stress that this is required for salvation!
Justification + Sanctification = Salvation
You're still not indicating whether this is necessary for salvation (or not).I don't know of any official doctrines in Protestant churches which deny we are to live holy lives.
Holy living are the fruits of salvation, a new creation. Which is why the apostles warned us
to not live according to the flesh but the Spirit. Because we belong to Christ.
It's the fruit of salvation. Any Buddhist monk can pick up a Bible pull out its morals and live it better than any Christian. Would that make the monk partially saved because he was doing it?You're still not indicating whether this is necessary for salvation (or not).
Dost thou thinkst that repenting of your (present) sins is doing works?Keep your eyes and souls on God; let him guide you.
None of our works are good enough to atone for any sin, nor should they be the focus.
IMO, as with Ephesians 2:7-8, this refers to our initial receiving of the Holy Spirit
when we were born-again from above! ... I.E. This refers to God's initial grace.
We were initially saved re: the blue ... NOT by any works we have done!
But, then our co-operation needs to begin (ref: dozens of NT verses).
BTW, if you read the OP, did you happen to notice the verse that says:
we were ONLY cleansed (forgiven) of our sins which were PRIOR to salvation.
Salvation is a process ... and it can be lost (ref: many NT verses).
Dost thou thinkst that repenting of your (present) sins is doing works?
BTW, nice to see that you can sketch nicely with your pencil (I can't).
Yes, but you had better stress that this is required for salvation!
Justification + Sanctification = Salvation
IMO, it all about the attitude of your heart.Nobody can be without sin. There's many sins a lot of us will commit every single day and
never even be aware of, even in our thoughts and dreams; that is why God's grace is necessary.
Believers are accountable to the Lord God who saved them!
Dozens of NT verses teach that their salvation is conditional.
After the Holy Spirit indwells them, they are sanctified (set apart)
for further sanctification unto holiness.
Believers are in a saved condition IF they are obedient
This is about obedience to Jesus’ teachings and commands. Continuing obedience is
what “being faithful” means. True believers love Jesus, and want to follow and obey Him!
● “If you love Me, obey My commandments …
Those who accept My commandments and obey them are the ones who love Me …
If anyone loves Me, he will obey My word” (John 14:15-23)
Truly, does anyone get into heaven who does not love Jesus?
Believers are obedient IF they are NOT habitual sinners
● “Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to death,
or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?
… so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.” (Romans 6:16-19)
● “Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness,
lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish
ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like;
of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past,
that those who practice such things will NOT inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21)
Believers are righteous IF they practice righteousnesss
● “… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous just as He is righteous.
He who sins is of the devil … Whoever has been born of God does NOT sin (habitually) …
In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: whoever does
NOT practice righteousness is NOT of God, NOR is he who does NOT love his brother.” (1 John 3:7-10)
Believers are in a saved condition IF they are repenting
“Repent (metanoeo) and believe (pisteou) may be understood as being opposite sides of the same coin.
… John used believe since this term included all of these ideas.” (The Holman Christian Standard Bible)
When they were first saved, believers were ONLY forgiven of their PAST sins …
● “… forgetting that they have been cleansed from their old sins.” (2 Peter 1:9)
“former sins” (NASB, ESV) --- “past sins” (NIV, HCSB) --- “old sins” (NKJV, NLT, RSV)
● “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9)
Confession needs to be followed by repentance!
“This is an extremely important verse … all men need to be repeatedly purified from all unrighteousness,
from all their sins … We must confess our sins and turn from them” (The Applied New Testament Commentary)