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Featured Salvation is a process of co-operation between man and God

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by BCsenior, Nov 6, 2019.

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  1. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    Believers are accountable to the Lord God who saved them!
    Dozens of NT verses teach that their salvation is conditional.
    After the Holy Spirit indwells them, they are sanctified (set apart)
    for further sanctification unto holiness. During this process, believers
    are required to co-operate with the Holy Spirit’s efforts to sanctify them,
    and to overcome sin, Satan, persecution, etc. (see Revelation 3:21).

    There is only space below for some of the topics and “proof text” verses …

    Believers are in a saved condition IF they are obedient
    This is about obedience to Jesus’ teachings and commands. Continuing obedience is
    what “being faithful” means. True believers love Jesus, and want to follow and obey Him!

    ● “If you love Me, obey My commandments …
    Those who accept My commandments and obey them are the ones who love Me …
    If anyone loves Me, he will obey My word” (John 14:15-23)

    Truly, does anyone get into heaven who does not love Jesus?

    Believers are obedient IF they are NOT habitual sinners
    ● “Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to death,
    or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?
    … so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.” (Romans 6:16-19)
    ● “Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness,
    lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish
    ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like;
    of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past,
    that those who practice such things will NOT inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21)


    Believers are righteous IF they practice righteousnesss
    ● “… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous just as He is righteous.
    He who sins is of the devil … Whoever has been born of God does NOT sin (habitually) …
    In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: whoever does
    NOT practice righteousness is NOT of God, NOR is he who does NOT love his brother.” (1 John 3:7-10)

    Believers who are “faithful” will be obedient to Jesus’ commandments, and will practice righteousness!
    ● “… you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.” (1 John 2:29)
    ● “… who fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him”
    (Acts 10:35)

    Believers are in a saved condition IF they are repenting
    “Repent (metanoeo) and believe (pisteou) may be understood as being opposite sides of the same coin.
    … John used believe since this term included all of these ideas.” (The Holman Christian Standard Bible)

    When they were first saved, believers were ONLY forgiven of their PAST sins …
    ● “… forgetting that they have been cleansed from their old sins.” (2 Peter 1:9)
    “former sins”
    (NASB, ESV) --- “past sins” (NIV, HCSB) --- “old sins” (NKJV, NLT, RSV)
    ● “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins
    and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9)

    Confession needs to be followed by repentance!
    “This is an extremely important verse … all men need to be repeatedly purified from all unrighteousness,
    from all their sins … We must confess our sins and turn from them” (The Applied New Testament Commentary)


    Believers were chosen and called to live holy lives
    ● “God’s will is for you to be holy … live in holiness and honor … God has called us to live holy lives, not impure lives … anyone who refuses to live by these rules is rejecting God.”
    (1 Thessalonians 4:3-8)
    ● “God has given us everything we need to live a godly life … Work hard to prove that you really are among those God has called and chosen … It would be better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it, and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life”
    (2 Peter 1:3, 1:10, 2:21)
    ● “God’s discipline is always good for us, so that we might share in his holiness.
    … work at living a holy life, for those who are NOT holy will NOT see the Lord.
    … Be careful that you do not refuse to listen to the One who is speaking.” (Hebrews 12:10-25)


    Believers faith must endure until the end of their lives
    In the NT, the Greek indicates that “believe” is a present tense imperative verb!
    Yes, a continuing belief-faith is necessary for continuing salvation-eternal life!

    ● “… whoever believes [present tense: continues to believe] in Him
    may have
    [present tense: may continue to have] eternal life. For God so loved the world,
    that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes
    [present tense: continues to believe] in Him
    should not perish but have
    [present tense: continue to have] eternal life.” (John 3:16)
    ● “… to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight — IF indeed you
    continue in the faith … and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel” (Colossians 1:22-23)
    ● “It is this Good News (the gospel) that saves you,
    IF you continue to believe the message I told you” (1 Corinthians 15:1-2)
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
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  2. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    The problem with this variation on the theme called "works righteousness," the process of working ones way to salvation by performing well in this life on Earth, thus winning God's approval...

    ...is that it sounds great in theory but no one knows how many or which deeds are sufficient. Not even the churches which teach this doctrine can tell you.

    And nothing that we can do really merits such a payoff as eternal life (!) anyway.

    If anyone tries to quantify or list the necessary good deeds, it looks patently ridiculous to say that 15 times of helping old ladies across the street, plus $5,000 contributed to the Red Cross, plus something else is adequate to insure one's salvation...but if you happen to fall short in any category, you miss out. It's absurd.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
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  3. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Why is cooperation with God in "Controversial Christian Theology"? :scratch:
     
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  4. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    It's whether or not such "cooperation" results in salvation or not.

    I hope there's no question that this idea is controversial.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
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  5. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    Because most of the people in CF think having any cooperation in your salvation even a tiny one means you are taking away God's honor/glory/etc.
     
  6. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Where did you get that impression?
     
  7. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother?

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    My thoughts exactly.
     
  8. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    Because of brothers like Albion.
     
  9. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    and almost the whole of Protestant Christianity, that is.
     
  10. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Because of Romans chapter 3? That's my guess.
     
  11. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    That's pretty close. But it is more a matter of God makes it possible for us to be cooperative by His Grace as we become His workmanship in Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10).
     
  12. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    I wonder WHY Father God bothered to send down the Holy Spirit to us
    ... if He couldn't help us co-operate with the Father's Plan of Salvation?

    Most "believers" don't want to co-operate with God and His Plan ...
    they want to go to heaven after they've done their thing down here!

    Surprise, surprise ... but, they've been warned, haven't they!

    Short Quiz ... How many times did Jesus say (paraphrasing),
    "Those who love Me will obey My commandments."

    Short Quiz #2 ... Who's going to heaven who doesn't love Jesus?
     
  13. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    OR, some frequent posters think so. Maybe not, hopefully not? , "most of the people"....
    I might even think some unbelievers realize cooperation/ obedience is required, they just have not chosen who to serve yet, or not chosen to serve Yahuweh yet.
     
  14. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    I think most agree God makes the cooperation possible.
     
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  15. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Cooperation isn't the issue. :sigh:
     
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  16. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Was JESUS GOD MESSIAH SAVIOR FRIEND REDEEMER COMFORTER "LAMB OF GOD"
    able to get the religious leaders to believe in Him instead of to reject Him ?

    People have not changed. Mankind is still evil and full of wickedness, hating the LIGHT (JESUS).
     
  17. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    But, they didn't have a new creation, the Holy Spirit, the whole counsel of God.
    Those BACs who have these ... REALLY have NO excuse ... except rebellion!
    IMO, their punishment will be worse than the Pharisees.
     
  18. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Maybe read what I posted and Ephesian 2:8-10
     
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  19. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Correct because the spiritually dead can't help themselves.
     
  20. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    Are you so naive to think that I'm so naive?
    I was joking with tongue in cheek, etc.
    C'mon.
     
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