I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore

Hammster · Nov 5, 2019

AvisG said:
My action plan? To try to live my life as a follower of Jesus and to distance myself as far as humanly possible from the religion that calls itself "Christianity."

Scripture?

sdowney717 · Nov 5, 2019

AvisG said:
I appreciate your sentiments, but what I'm talking about is SO PERVASIVE, so all-consuming, that it cannot reasonably be attributed to "the devil" or "principalities" unless the Holy Spirit is completely and utterly toothless and ineffectual. For "Christianity" to have been perverted, almost across the board, into the very opposite of what even a not-very-perceptive reader of the NT can see Jesus was talking about is a mystery too big to simply attribute to demonic forces. I don't claim to have the explanation for this mystery, but to me it cuts to the very heart of what Christianity claims to be. Like many, I do think that a huge and unfortunate turning point occurred when Constantine officially blessed Christianity as a state-approved religion. If Christianity ever had a chance of becoming what Jesus envisioned, that killed it.

Love the brethren whom God has begotten again, or your deceived about things.
You can not hate your fellow believer and also love God, if you do your living a lie.
1 John 5:1-3 New King James Version (NKJV)

1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.

dzheremi · Nov 5, 2019

Ho hum. Another thread about how "Christianity is so corrupted", "The problem with the Church", "Let's get back to _____", "I love Jesus, but hate Religion", etc. Must be a day ending in y.

A_Thinker · Nov 5, 2019

AvisG said:
I was recently motivated to return here for a few postings by my increasing disgust and dismay with that which calls itself "Christianity," at least in the U.S. This disgust and dismay has reached the point where, after 48 years of self-identifying as a Christian of some species (originally a door-pounding Campus Crusader!), I hesitate even to identify myself as a Christian.

The disgust and dismay that I'm talking about has nothing whatsoever to do with any particular branch of Christendom - Catholics, Southern Baptists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, United Methodists, Whatever. It has to do with all of "Christianity," the vast industry that purports to operate in Jesus' name.

It's precisely that - a vast, money-grubbing industry that is virtually indistinguishable from any other vast, money-grubbing industry. (There is of course one major difference: McDonald's, Wendy's and Burger King at least don't pretend to be doing God's work.)

The vast accumulations of wealth, the vast real estate holdings, the endless stream of products to sell (oops, to "give" you in return for your "generous donation" of at least $25), the celebrity leaders, the oh-so-obvious greed and ambition, the intense competition, yada yada yada - it's indistinguishable from any secular industry, with the minor exception that it purports to operate in the name of God and fleeces its "customers" in the name of God.

I happened to turn on the Christian Satellite Network yesterday just in time to hear the ubiquitous and smarmy Pastor Robert Jeffress for three minutes. In that short time, he managed to do a commercial for his latest "study tool" that you can't live without, a commercial for his latest book that I doubt he's even read but you likewise can't live without, and an extended commercial for his upcoming Alaska cruise (replete with a variety of entertainment, including a comedian!). For some reason, it hit me as the LAST STRAW. I've listened to Christian radio with increasing disgust and dismay for years, but I turned it off and said "THAT'S IT - I'm DONE with this sort of 'Christianity!'")

The problem is, "this sort of Christianity" pretty much IS "Christianity" in the U.S. And I haven't even mentioned the evangelicals for whom "Christianity" is little more than a code word for the right-wing political agenda (much of which I happen to favor, but I don't pretend that Jesus was a capitalist or that God cares one whit about the right to bear arms).

Does anyone actually think "Christianity" as it exists in the U.S. (and elsewhere, of course) has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was actually talking about??? Sure, even the most craven segments of "Christianity" do some (or even much) good work, but so do entirely secular corporations (and for pretty much exactly the same reason - it's essential public relations and ultimately enhances the bottom line).

As far as I can tell, the problem with "Christianity" is the same as the problem with everything else: human nature. The ambition, greed and lust that dominate every other sector of society dominate "Christianity" as well, with the exception that in "Christianity" they wear a deceiving cloak of godliness. The reality is, MONEY IS GOD, within "Christianity" as everywhere else, with FAME and SEX as the other parts of the unholy trinity. Isn't this a bit of a mystery? Where is the Holy Spirit in all this?

Indeed, the way that human nature operates within "Christianity" is particularly insidious. Those who are most consumed by greed and ambition can deceive themselves and their flocks into believing that they are doing God's work and that the excesses are God's blessing.

Read the Sermon On the Mount. Pay attention to the red-letter portions of your NT. Can you seriously say that "Christianity" as it exists today has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was talking about??? It's a complete perversion of EVERYTHING that Jesus was talking about. What Jesus was talking about was something so radical that it's never even been attempted on a large scale and, at this point, never will be this side of the Second Coming.

Yes, I am ranting. Yes, I sound extremely cynical. But I at least have HAD IT with the entire phenomenon, the entire mega-industry, that calls itself "Christianity."

Oh, sure, your denomination is different. Oh, sure, your church is different. Oh, sure, you are different. Enjoy the potlucks.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at.

You are identifying christianity with the more commercial aspects that are, typically, most manifest when it is broadcast over media.

My experience of American christianity is different. There are over 300 thousand churches in America ... most of them small to medium-sized neighborhood churches. These churches host food and clothing giveaways, they provide (informal) counseling to those who seek it, they help families with caring for their family members ... children and aged adults, they provide inspiration and direction to their American congregants ... who then go out into their society and work, and raise families, and vote, and man school boards, prison ministries, day-cares, and other volunteer associations, etc. Parachurch (i.e. with the church) organizations provide food, clothing, water, medicines, health care, livestock, machinery, etc. to needy persons and families in America and around the world.

Christianity has also been a part of the foundation of and the continuance of many beneficial organizations in our society today, including hospitals, educational institutions, orphanages, homeless shelters, and other ministries spanning the country.

Are there misapplications and commercializations of christianity ? Yes, ... but there is no way to stop that in a free society. Any force which is as powerful in our society as is christianoty ... will have its imitators and those who claim it to seek their own fortune. But that does not negate the true christianity which is all around us, and without which, the US would be a fundamentally different place to live.

Do you think that America would have been as welcoming to immigrants as it has been, ... and as it is currently struggling to be, ... if it had not been for the ethic of "love your neighbor as you love yourself" ? And this is not to say that I believe America is not without its faults, nor American christianity, but you simply don't cast out the baby with the bath-water.

2PhiloVoid · Nov 5, 2019

AvisG said:
I was recently motivated to return here for a few postings by my increasing disgust and dismay with that which calls itself "Christianity," at least in the U.S. This disgust and dismay has reached the point where, after 48 years of self-identifying as a Christian of some species (originally a door-pounding Campus Crusader!), I hesitate even to identify myself as a Christian.

The disgust and dismay that I'm talking about has nothing whatsoever to do with any particular branch of Christendom - Catholics, Southern Baptists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, United Methodists, Whatever. It has to do with all of "Christianity," the vast industry that purports to operate in Jesus' name.

It's precisely that - a vast, money-grubbing industry that is virtually indistinguishable from any other vast, money-grubbing industry. (There is of course one major difference: McDonald's, Wendy's and Burger King at least don't pretend to be doing God's work.)

The vast accumulations of wealth, the vast real estate holdings, the endless stream of products to sell (oops, to "give" you in return for your "generous donation" of at least $25), the celebrity leaders, the oh-so-obvious greed and ambition, the intense competition, yada yada yada - it's indistinguishable from any secular industry, with the minor exception that it purports to operate in the name of God and fleeces its "customers" in the name of God.

I happened to turn on the Christian Satellite Network yesterday just in time to hear the ubiquitous and smarmy Pastor Robert Jeffress for three minutes. In that short time, he managed to do a commercial for his latest "study tool" that you can't live without, a commercial for his latest book that I doubt he's even read but you likewise can't live without, and an extended commercial for his upcoming Alaska cruise (replete with a variety of entertainment, including a comedian!). For some reason, it hit me as the LAST STRAW. I've listened to Christian radio with increasing disgust and dismay for years, but I turned it off and said "THAT'S IT - I'm DONE with this sort of 'Christianity!'")

The problem is, "this sort of Christianity" pretty much IS "Christianity" in the U.S. And I haven't even mentioned the evangelicals for whom "Christianity" is little more than a code word for the right-wing political agenda (much of which I happen to favor, but I don't pretend that Jesus was a capitalist or that God cares one whit about the right to bear arms).

Does anyone actually think "Christianity" as it exists in the U.S. (and elsewhere, of course) has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was actually talking about??? Sure, even the most craven segments of "Christianity" do some (or even much) good work, but so do entirely secular corporations (and for pretty much exactly the same reason - it's essential public relations and ultimately enhances the bottom line).

As far as I can tell, the problem with "Christianity" is the same as the problem with everything else: human nature. The ambition, greed and lust that dominate every other sector of society dominate "Christianity" as well, with the exception that in "Christianity" they wear a deceiving cloak of godliness. The reality is, MONEY IS GOD, within "Christianity" as everywhere else, with FAME and SEX as the other parts of the unholy trinity. Isn't this a bit of a mystery? Where is the Holy Spirit in all this?

Indeed, the way that human nature operates within "Christianity" is particularly insidious. Those who are most consumed by greed and ambition can deceive themselves and their flocks into believing that they are doing God's work and that the excesses are God's blessing.

Read the Sermon On the Mount. Pay attention to the red-letter portions of your NT. Can you seriously say that "Christianity" as it exists today has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was talking about??? It's a complete perversion of EVERYTHING that Jesus was talking about. What Jesus was talking about was something so radical that it's never even been attempted on a large scale and, at this point, never will be this side of the Second Coming.

Yes, I am ranting. Yes, I sound extremely cynical. But I at least have HAD IT with the entire phenomenon, the entire mega-industry, that calls itself "Christianity."

Oh, sure, your denomination is different. Oh, sure, your church is different. Oh, sure, you are different. Enjoy the potlucks.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at.

Geez, AvisG! That's quite some spiel, and to think that I thought "I" was radical in how I approached the Christian Faith. I guess you take the cake, and so I bequeath my radical crown to you, oh angry one! :dontcare:

Maria Billingsley · Nov 5, 2019

AvisG said:
I was recently motivated to return here for a few postings by my increasing disgust and dismay with that which calls itself "Christianity," at least in the U.S. This disgust and dismay has reached the point where, after 48 years of self-identifying as a Christian of some species (originally a door-pounding Campus Crusader!), I hesitate even to identify myself as a Christian.

The disgust and dismay that I'm talking about has nothing whatsoever to do with any particular branch of Christendom - Catholics, Southern Baptists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, United Methodists, Whatever. It has to do with all of "Christianity," the vast industry that purports to operate in Jesus' name.

It's precisely that - a vast, money-grubbing industry that is virtually indistinguishable from any other vast, money-grubbing industry. (There is of course one major difference: McDonald's, Wendy's and Burger King at least don't pretend to be doing God's work.)

The vast accumulations of wealth, the vast real estate holdings, the endless stream of products to sell (oops, to "give" you in return for your "generous donation" of at least $25), the celebrity leaders, the oh-so-obvious greed and ambition, the intense competition, yada yada yada - it's indistinguishable from any secular industry, with the minor exception that it purports to operate in the name of God and fleeces its "customers" in the name of God.

I happened to turn on the Christian Satellite Network yesterday just in time to hear the ubiquitous and smarmy Pastor Robert Jeffress for three minutes. In that short time, he managed to do a commercial for his latest "study tool" that you can't live without, a commercial for his latest book that I doubt he's even read but you likewise can't live without, and an extended commercial for his upcoming Alaska cruise (replete with a variety of entertainment, including a comedian!). For some reason, it hit me as the LAST STRAW. I've listened to Christian radio with increasing disgust and dismay for years, but I turned it off and said "THAT'S IT - I'm DONE with this sort of 'Christianity!'")

The problem is, "this sort of Christianity" pretty much IS "Christianity" in the U.S. And I haven't even mentioned the evangelicals for whom "Christianity" is little more than a code word for the right-wing political agenda (much of which I happen to favor, but I don't pretend that Jesus was a capitalist or that God cares one whit about the right to bear arms).

Does anyone actually think "Christianity" as it exists in the U.S. (and elsewhere, of course) has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was actually talking about??? Sure, even the most craven segments of "Christianity" do some (or even much) good work, but so do entirely secular corporations (and for pretty much exactly the same reason - it's essential public relations and ultimately enhances the bottom line).

As far as I can tell, the problem with "Christianity" is the same as the problem with everything else: human nature. The ambition, greed and lust that dominate every other sector of society dominate "Christianity" as well, with the exception that in "Christianity" they wear a deceiving cloak of godliness. The reality is, MONEY IS GOD, within "Christianity" as everywhere else, with FAME and SEX as the other parts of the unholy trinity. Isn't this a bit of a mystery? Where is the Holy Spirit in all this?

Indeed, the way that human nature operates within "Christianity" is particularly insidious. Those who are most consumed by greed and ambition can deceive themselves and their flocks into believing that they are doing God's work and that the excesses are God's blessing.

Read the Sermon On the Mount. Pay attention to the red-letter portions of your NT. Can you seriously say that "Christianity" as it exists today has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was talking about??? It's a complete perversion of EVERYTHING that Jesus was talking about. What Jesus was talking about was something so radical that it's never even been attempted on a large scale and, at this point, never will be this side of the Second Coming.

Yes, I am ranting. Yes, I sound extremely cynical. But I at least have HAD IT with the entire phenomenon, the entire mega-industry, that calls itself "Christianity."

Oh, sure, your denomination is different. Oh, sure, your church is different. Oh, sure, you are different. Enjoy the potlucks.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at.

Good thing the "Church" is The Body of Christ and its congregants span the entire existence of humanity from the beginning to the end. No need to fret about local, regional, national or global congregations, they are made of both wheat and tares. Just stay the course, love one another and above all know that our time here on earth is very short.

“The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them but gather the wheat into my barn.”
JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH

sdowney717 · Nov 5, 2019

Even Christ called Judas Iscariot 'friend' when He was being betrayed by him.
Let vengeance belong to the Lord God, He will repay, and properly so in due time. your life will be so much more peaceful if you trust yourself into His hands.

Matthew 26:48-51 New King James Version (NKJV)
48 Now His betrayer had given them a sign, saying, “Whomever I kiss, He is the One; seize Him.” 49 Immediately he went up to Jesus and said, “Greetings, Rabbi!” and kissed Him.

50 But Jesus said to him, “Friend, why have you come?”

Then they came and laid hands on Jesus and took Him. 51 And suddenly, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.

section9+1 · Nov 5, 2019

Peace with the church means keep your expectations low. Contentment is not found by having everything being perfect but by recognizing and accepting what you are willing to live with.

Kenny'sID · Nov 5, 2019

AvisG said:
I was recently motivated to return here for a few postings by my increasing disgust and dismay with that which calls itself "Christianity," at least in the U.S. This disgust and dismay has reached the point where, after 48 years of self-identifying as a Christian of some species (originally a door-pounding Campus Crusader!), I hesitate even to identify myself as a Christian.

The disgust and dismay that I'm talking about has nothing whatsoever to do with any particular branch of Christendom - Catholics, Southern Baptists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, United Methodists, Whatever. It has to do with all of "Christianity," the vast industry that purports to operate in Jesus' name.

It's precisely that - a vast, money-grubbing industry that is virtually indistinguishable from any other vast, money-grubbing industry. (There is of course one major difference: McDonald's, Wendy's and Burger King at least don't pretend to be doing God's work.)

The vast accumulations of wealth, the vast real estate holdings, the endless stream of products to sell (oops, to "give" you in return for your "generous donation" of at least $25), the celebrity leaders, the oh-so-obvious greed and ambition, the intense competition, yada yada yada - it's indistinguishable from any secular industry, with the minor exception that it purports to operate in the name of God and fleeces its "customers" in the name of God.

I happened to turn on the Christian Satellite Network yesterday just in time to hear the ubiquitous and smarmy Pastor Robert Jeffress for three minutes. In that short time, he managed to do a commercial for his latest "study tool" that you can't live without, a commercial for his latest book that I doubt he's even read but you likewise can't live without, and an extended commercial for his upcoming Alaska cruise (replete with a variety of entertainment, including a comedian!). For some reason, it hit me as the LAST STRAW. I've listened to Christian radio with increasing disgust and dismay for years, but I turned it off and said "THAT'S IT - I'm DONE with this sort of 'Christianity!'")

The problem is, "this sort of Christianity" pretty much IS "Christianity" in the U.S. And I haven't even mentioned the evangelicals for whom "Christianity" is little more than a code word for the right-wing political agenda (much of which I happen to favor, but I don't pretend that Jesus was a capitalist or that God cares one whit about the right to bear arms).

Does anyone actually think "Christianity" as it exists in the U.S. (and elsewhere, of course) has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was actually talking about??? Sure, even the most craven segments of "Christianity" do some (or even much) good work, but so do entirely secular corporations (and for pretty much exactly the same reason - it's essential public relations and ultimately enhances the bottom line).

As far as I can tell, the problem with "Christianity" is the same as the problem with everything else: human nature. The ambition, greed and lust that dominate every other sector of society dominate "Christianity" as well, with the exception that in "Christianity" they wear a deceiving cloak of godliness. The reality is, MONEY IS GOD, within "Christianity" as everywhere else, with FAME and SEX as the other parts of the unholy trinity. Isn't this a bit of a mystery? Where is the Holy Spirit in all this?

Indeed, the way that human nature operates within "Christianity" is particularly insidious. Those who are most consumed by greed and ambition can deceive themselves and their flocks into believing that they are doing God's work and that the excesses are God's blessing.

Read the Sermon On the Mount. Pay attention to the red-letter portions of your NT. Can you seriously say that "Christianity" as it exists today has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was talking about??? It's a complete perversion of EVERYTHING that Jesus was talking about. What Jesus was talking about was something so radical that it's never even been attempted on a large scale and, at this point, never will be this side of the Second Coming.

Yes, I am ranting. Yes, I sound extremely cynical. But I at least have HAD IT with the entire phenomenon, the entire mega-industry, that calls itself "Christianity."

Oh, sure, your denomination is different. Oh, sure, your church is different. Oh, sure, you are different. Enjoy the potlucks.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at.

None of that is anything new. There will always be people that claim to be Christian that either think they really are, but are far from it or, know they aren't, and only want to scam people out of money in the name of Christ. IOW bad/evil people

If that turns you away from true Christianity, I can only suggest you separate yourself from what is undesirable, just as we separate ourselves from generally bad people, because, in actuality, that's all this really is, bad people..

We only have full control over ourselves, and making the fact there are bad people in the world a reason to be ashamed of true Christianity overall is probably not a good idea. This is the way it's always been and always will be, it's just multiplied here towards the end times, so don't panic.

Don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

renniks · Nov 5, 2019

AvisG said:
I was recently motivated to return here for a few postings by my increasing disgust and dismay with that which calls itself "Christianity," at least in the U.S. This disgust and dismay has reached the point where, after 48 years of self-identifying as a Christian of some species (originally a door-pounding Campus Crusader!), I hesitate even to identify myself as a Christian.

The disgust and dismay that I'm talking about has nothing whatsoever to do with any particular branch of Christendom - Catholics, Southern Baptists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, United Methodists, Whatever. It has to do with all of "Christianity," the vast industry that purports to operate in Jesus' name.

It's precisely that - a vast, money-grubbing industry that is virtually indistinguishable from any other vast, money-grubbing industry. (There is of course one major difference: McDonald's, Wendy's and Burger King at least don't pretend to be doing God's work.)

The vast accumulations of wealth, the vast real estate holdings, the endless stream of products to sell (oops, to "give" you in return for your "generous donation" of at least $25), the celebrity leaders, the oh-so-obvious greed and ambition, the intense competition, yada yada yada - it's indistinguishable from any secular industry, with the minor exception that it purports to operate in the name of God and fleeces its "customers" in the name of God.

I happened to turn on the Christian Satellite Network yesterday just in time to hear the ubiquitous and smarmy Pastor Robert Jeffress for three minutes. In that short time, he managed to do a commercial for his latest "study tool" that you can't live without, a commercial for his latest book that I doubt he's even read but you likewise can't live without, and an extended commercial for his upcoming Alaska cruise (replete with a variety of entertainment, including a comedian!). For some reason, it hit me as the LAST STRAW. I've listened to Christian radio with increasing disgust and dismay for years, but I turned it off and said "THAT'S IT - I'm DONE with this sort of 'Christianity!'")

The problem is, "this sort of Christianity" pretty much IS "Christianity" in the U.S. And I haven't even mentioned the evangelicals for whom "Christianity" is little more than a code word for the right-wing political agenda (much of which I happen to favor, but I don't pretend that Jesus was a capitalist or that God cares one whit about the right to bear arms).

Does anyone actually think "Christianity" as it exists in the U.S. (and elsewhere, of course) has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was actually talking about??? Sure, even the most craven segments of "Christianity" do some (or even much) good work, but so do entirely secular corporations (and for pretty much exactly the same reason - it's essential public relations and ultimately enhances the bottom line).

As far as I can tell, the problem with "Christianity" is the same as the problem with everything else: human nature. The ambition, greed and lust that dominate every other sector of society dominate "Christianity" as well, with the exception that in "Christianity" they wear a deceiving cloak of godliness. The reality is, MONEY IS GOD, within "Christianity" as everywhere else, with FAME and SEX as the other parts of the unholy trinity. Isn't this a bit of a mystery? Where is the Holy Spirit in all this?

Indeed, the way that human nature operates within "Christianity" is particularly insidious. Those who are most consumed by greed and ambition can deceive themselves and their flocks into believing that they are doing God's work and that the excesses are God's blessing.

Read the Sermon On the Mount. Pay attention to the red-letter portions of your NT. Can you seriously say that "Christianity" as it exists today has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was talking about??? It's a complete perversion of EVERYTHING that Jesus was talking about. What Jesus was talking about was something so radical that it's never even been attempted on a large scale and, at this point, never will be this side of the Second Coming.

Yes, I am ranting. Yes, I sound extremely cynical. But I at least have HAD IT with the entire phenomenon, the entire mega-industry, that calls itself "Christianity."

Oh, sure, your denomination is different. Oh, sure, your church is different. Oh, sure, you are different. Enjoy the potlucks.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at.

Well, getting mad ought to fix it all, huh?
Sure, there are lots of charlatans, lots of false teachers, but there are also lots of good Christians doing their best to live right. It's the same as it's always been and I don't see it changing prior to Christ's return.

Alistair_Wonderland · Nov 5, 2019

I said this on another post, and Ill repeat it here: Satan has many masks, and one of his favorite masks to wear is a mask that looks like Jesus. Satan's a smart guy, and he has an ingeniously evil plan for America: stick as many of his agents as possible into the churches, masquerading as Christians... heck, they probably even believe that they're following God, but then, so did the Pharisees... and using them to cast a bad light on Jesus. It's what I would do if I was a scumbag trying to ruin someone's reputation. It's why Jesus said "they will be known by their fruit", because people can say they are Christian, and can cry crocodile tears over how much the love of God has touched them, and raise their hands and praise God in church, and He shall say to them "depart from me, I never knew you".

Just remember, Jesus never liked big religion. And big religion didn't like Jesus. I'm pretty sure if Jesus showed up to modern "Christians" today, they would want to crucify Him all over again.
But take hope. When the church fails to lead people to God, God will take other sources. Even ones we never saw coming. (Infamous rapper Kanye West is saying what?!)

Also, I chuckled when you mentioned that God doesn't care about Republican agendas. It's funny because it's true. In case everyone forgot, God is a theocratic monarch, and doesn't give a withered fig tree about human political opinions, or who's in charge, because let's face it, He know's who's really in control.

Lost4words · Nov 5, 2019

I bet Jesus doesnt recognise His 'Church'. That goes for ANY denomination!

dzheremi · Nov 5, 2019

I dunno, my corgi friend...Jesus did go to Egypt as a child with His family when they were fleeing Herod...

A_Thinker · Nov 5, 2019

Lost4words said:
I bet Jesus doesnt recognise His 'Church'. That goes for ANY denomination!

I bet He does.

He recognized each of the seven churches He spoke to in Revelations, despite the particular combination of their successes and their failures.

He even recognized the church at Laodociea, for whom He had no commendation ... and only condemnation and a command to repent ...

Carl Emerson · Nov 5, 2019

AvisG said:
what I'm talking about is SO PERVASIVE, so all-consuming, that it cannot reasonably be attributed to "the devil" or "principalities" unless the Holy Spirit is completely and utterly toothless and ineffectual. For "Christianity" to have been perverted, almost across the board, into the very opposite of what even a not-very-perceptive reader of the NT can see Jesus was talking about is a mystery too big to simply attribute to demonic forces.

I note that when Derek Prince back in the 60's began to directly address the demonic among members of his congregation, over 70% lined up for deliverance.

The fact that there are demonic strongholds in the 'church' institution does not mean that the Holy Spirit is toothless.

He is calling folks back home to live out their faith among neighbours.

The right response is to demonstrate what He is about in your small corner.

At judgement we will not be able to say 'the pastor did this' We will be asked 'what did you do'

The battle is surely raging - stay with the faithful on the winning side - where you are planted. It never was about institution - It is about walking with Jesus in 'the way'

Lost4words · Nov 5, 2019

A_Thinker said:
I bet He does.

He recognized each of the seven churches He spoke to in Revelations, despite the particular combination of their successes and their failures.

He even recognized the church at Laodociea, for whom He had no commendation ... and only condemnation and a command to repent ...

Those churches are not of 'today'.

the last child · Nov 5, 2019

Dave G. said:
The idea is we come humbly before God in prayer and supplication. Please only stay mad for so long and take it before God. Emotionalism doesn't impress Him, pride doesn't impress Him any more than commercial Christianity. We pour our hearts out before the Lord don't we ?

Sometimes we are best off in small groups who/where the remnant can be found. I believe there is such a remnant being pulled out by Jesus Christ Himself, who know Him personally. But on the flip side, it costs a ton of money to run a tv ministry world wide. Where would you get that money from ? Because Jesus did say the gospel had to go world wide before his return, He did not say what that would look like in 2019 .

There is so much corruption everywhere, I agree. But I also see that the Lord uses great and small still to do His bidding. There are NONE, not even you, my friend, who can stand on this side of heaven, blameless and spotless. We are all mixed bags—none are filled with completely “good” or completely “bad” motives, and yet God uses what He pleases. I too wish that the corruption and filth that pervades all of Christendom on this side of heaven would be washed away—on a personal level I bear many wounds and scars because they are not. However, I see God using ALL the good and bad and even all that we deem “unworthy” or “unfair,” “commercialized” or “secularized” He can redeem and use. Just don’t forget Who is still in charge even now. The best thing any of us can do is go humbly before Him and ask what to do, where to go and whom to serve to further His Kingdom, and while you're at it, ask Him to quiet and calm your spirit—to open your eyes to see them as He does, so that your anger may be quenched.

mama2one · Nov 5, 2019

agree with @A_Thinker how churches help community

several churches in our town help out the community with ongoing food & clothing programs, supply lower income children at school with backpacks & food when not in school, have programs for special needs adults, supply Thanksgiving meals to needy, provide volunteers for needs in the community, etc
some churches in our area even join together on bigger projects

@AvisG since you're retired, maybe you can join the ranks of volunteers at a church where you live and become part of the ground level "Christianity in action"......if you haven't already

AvisG · Nov 5, 2019

A Realist said:
Just do what I did. Back away from it. Get out of organized Christianity. Live your life according to the dictates of your conscience.

I say "your conscience" instead of "the spirit", because "the spirit" because if everyone were living their lives according to the dictates of the same "spirit", then the Church wouldn't be facing the issues it has today.

Bingo. That is the only solution (such as it is) that I see as well.

A number of posters seem to misunderstand what I'm saying. What I'm talking about really can't be addressed by praying for my brothers and sisters or trying to be a positive influence or whatever. I do not believe that "Christianity" is Christianity AT ALL. I'm obviously in no position to judge who is or who isn't a Christian - and I certainly don't hold myself out as a shining example - but my conclusion on the basis of long experience is that "Christianity" has no more to do with what Jesus was talking about than does Microsoft or Nike or any other massive corporation with a fairly active social conscience. Sure, I can and do pray, but I really don't believe there is anything to do with "Christianity" but withdraw from it and go my own way according to the dictates of my conscience.

GOD Shines Forth! said:
NETWORK is a brilliant, prophetic, deliciously bitter pill that every adult over 30 should take at least once. We ARE living in Network today.

Your self-proclaimed "rant", with Robert Jeffress as the villain of the piece? A more lightweight "villain" has never been found.

Sure, Robert Jeffress is less than nothing in the great scheme of "Christianity." He is hardly the villain of my rant. I simply said that his three minutes of unabashed self-promotion just happened to hit me yesterday as the last straw. I had been ranting to my wife in the vein of my OP, went out to the garage to lift weights, turned on the radio, and was immediately greeted by Jeffress three-minute commercial. The timing was so perfect that I might well have regarded it as divine confirmation of my rant.

Hammster said:
How does a local church do this over multiple locations? I’m confused.

I have attended numerous local churches in numerous locations over my 48-year association with "Christianity."

AvisG · Nov 5, 2019

grasping the after wind said:
Where does Jesus say "Be mad at your neighbor"? If you think others that call themselves Christians are acting unChristlike then the answer would be to act Christlike as an example to them of how it ought to be done. I do not see how being angry with them accomplishes anything positive. If one believes that Jesus is the resurrected Christ one is a Christian. If not, one is not. Once that is established then one can move further with the work of being a Christian and begin living life with that in mind. If one or a group of Christians loses sight of the mission Christ has given him, her or them being angry with that person or group does nothing to improve the situation. I understand that often becoming angry is often out of our control but remaining angry is not.

I chose the title of the thread simply as a tie-in with the clip from Network, which is surely one of the great moments in cinematic history. I don't think I'm "angry" at all. As Elvis Costello sang, "I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused." I'm still somewhat at the disgusted and dismayed end of things, but I do try to be amused and wonder what Jesus thinks about the utter nonsense He has wrought. You seem to be in the camp of those who think I am talking about "things that are wrong" with Christianity, in which case what you say might be pertinent. I am talking about a "Christianity" that I do not believe is Christianity AT ALL, at least if Christianity is to be understood as resembling anything Jesus had in mind. The "positive" that I believe could be accomplished with "Christianity" is to admit that it is not Christianity AT ALL, tear it down, and start over.

I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore

Psalm 144:1

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Other scholars got to me before you did!

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This. this is my right eye—no left eye. sorry. Lol

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