What function does the Holy Spirit have in the hearts of believers?

Carl Emerson said:

...Given the promise of Jesus that the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truth, is this still happening today? If so does that mean He speaks to us?
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Yes, I believe the promises are still valid and any disciple of Jesus can ask Holy Spirit. And Holy Spirit is like a teacher that leads to better understanding. I think that The Spirit leads one means that it can bring right ideas to one’s mind. I don’t think it necessary means hearing direct voices, but that person finds right ideas somehow.

If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him?
Luke 11:13

However when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak from himself; but whatever he hears, he will speak. He will declare to you things that are coming.
John 16:13

When they bring you before the synagogues, the rulers, and the authorities, don't be anxious how or what you will answer, or what you will say; for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that same hour what you must say.
Luke 12:11-12

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Galatians 5:22

swordsman1 said:

Well done, you have just proved my point. We all disagree. The Holy Spirit does not guide us into all truth. That verse is not speaking about us. The whole passage was addressed to the disciples personally. Jesus was explaining how the Spirit would work in their lives as apostles.

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No, my post doesn't prove your point one little bit.

I could give you a road map, (the scriptures)
or maybe a satnav (the Holy Spirit).
In both instances, how closely you follow them is down to your own free choice. Scripture history shows this always to be true.

Nothing I said is evidence for you to claim the Holy Spirit has ceased to speak into our lives today.
Worse still, your type of Christianity panders to the intellect. ie. Those with more knowledge are closer to God!

Carl Emerson said:

OK thanks fo far...

Now some are claiming that the Holy Spirit no longer speaks to folk since the Apostles have all died and the Scripture is available and that's all we need...

Your thoughts?

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“Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect [complete] comes, the partial will be done away.” 1 Corinthians 13:8–10 (NASB95)

Paul says Scripture completely furnishes us. “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16–17)

So when scripture became complete, it replaced tongues and prophecy.

If you believe in Him, you will get rewarded. This is what my mom always told me.

Carl Emerson said:

The very presence of the Creator of the Universe within the believer is an underrated and little talked about topic.

Can we establish what the believer can expect the Holy Spirit to do within us.

This is not about spiritual gifts, or the empowering for ministry, but simply His presence within.

Given the promise of Jesus that the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truth, is this still happening today? If so does that mean He speaks to us?

Does He no longer dwell within since we have the church as our guide? Does He no longer dwell within because we have the bible instead as our guide.

Your comments much appreciated.

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From my experiences with the Holy Spirit I believe He is our guide always urging us to do what is right and convicting us of doing wrong. He opens our heart to help those in need and let’s us know when we need to repent. It is our job to stay focused on his guidance and adhere to it. I often use the analogy that He is like a compass always pointing the way to God but He does not steer the boat. If we fall asleep at the wheel we may wake to find ourself way off course or maybe even worse, shipwrecked.

Francis Drake said:

No, my post doesn't prove your point one little bit.

I could give you a road map, (the scriptures)
or maybe a satnav (the Holy Spirit).
In both instances, how closely you follow them is down to your own free choice. Scripture history shows this always to be true.

Nothing I said is evidence for you to claim the Holy Spirit has ceased to speak into our lives today.
Worse still, your type of Christianity panders to the intellect. ie. Those with more knowledge are closer to God!

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Seeing as I have only addressed one thing in this topic, that being the common misinterpretation of the verse "He will guide you into all truth", your reply illustrated my point perfectly.

The Holy Spirit, or "satnav" as you so rudely described Him, is not some telepathic voice in your head giving you instructions on which way to turn in your life. Your theory whereby thoughts and ideas that pop into your head are declared to be "God told me..." is unbiblical and dangerous. Nowhere in scripture does it teach that God gives us instructions that way. It's a shame people have been taught to abandon their God given ability to reason and apply sound biblical teaching to their lives, in favor of such foolish and subjective practices that have no basis in scripture.

Carl Emerson said:

Dave, you will notice in my OP I was particularly NOT talking about Gifts. Just the Holy Spirit and if He still indwelles and what is His function inside of us.

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Here's your quote leading to my answer; "OK thanks fo far..."

"Now some are claiming that the Holy Spirit no longer speaks to folk since the Apostles have all died and the Scripture is available and that's all we need..."

"Your thoughts?"

Carl Emerson said:

Dave,

Do you believe the Holy Spirit indwells the believer?

If the Holy Spirit indwells the believer what is His function?

If He is more than a 'silent presence' please say so.

If you believe God took away the Holy Spirit from us when the Bible came and the Apostles died, please say so.

Is He within us or not, and if so what does He do?

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Every true believer has the Holy Spirit. Both in the OT and in the NT. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit was part of Joel's prophecy but only the Apostles had it as promised only to them specifically by Jesus. Also those whom they laid their hands on. And those in the two outpourings.

Believers have the Holy Spirit as in Joel's prophecy and the fulness comes through repentance.

Carl Emerson said:

OK you say believers have the Holy Spirit, what does He do for us? Is He just a silent presence?
Please dont keep referring to the gifts - the Presence of the Holy Spirit within is the topic.
Is He a guide?
Is He a Comforter,
Is His peace the judge of all thing in our hearts?

Thanks Dave,

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Through the Holy Spirit love becomes the believer's motive in all we think, say or do. This includes loving enemies as we do our own selves. In essence, we live the Sermon on the Mount.

swordsman1 said:

Well done, you have just proved my point. We all disagree. The Holy Spirit does not guide us into all truth. That verse is not speaking about us. The whole passage was addressed to the disciples personally. Jesus was explaining how the Spirit would work in their lives as apostles.

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No we read this also

1 John 2:27. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.”

And to all believers Paul said

1 Corinthians 2:10. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.11. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.12. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.13. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.14. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.15. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.”

Dave L said:

“Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect [complete] comes, the partial will be done away.” 1 Corinthians 13:8–10 (NASB95)

Paul says Scripture completely furnishes us. “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16–17)

So when scripture became complete, it replaced tongues and prophecy.

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That verse in Corinthians does not speak of that which is perfect being the scriptures. They already had the scriptures that were able to make them perfect through faith , they already had God wiring in them to make them perfect through Jesus Christ, they already had all things which pertain t life and godliness.they also had the ministry to make them perfect ... Eph 4:10,1112,and on.
But they didn’t have their perfect body and see the Lord face to face yet.
Paul says a similar passage here about that “perfect” Aspect.

Consider

“ Philippians 3:11. If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.12. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.13. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,14. I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.15. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.”

The words “apprehend that for which I am apprehended” are similar to “I may know even as I am known”. The words “apprehend” and “know” are very similar in Greek

apprehend is - possess, perceive attain

the word “know” to perceive, to become fully aquatinted with

4v6and (Satan) says to him, “If You are Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it has been written: ‘He will give orders to His angels concerning You, and will they bear You up in their hands, lest ever You strike Your foot against a stone.’”

Dave L said:

Every true believer has the Holy Spirit.

Both in the OT and in the NT. ​

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You have made this point before, I agreed then and agree now. But this is a deep heart conversion, not an outpouring or baptism in the Spirit.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit was part of Joel's prophecy but only the Apostles had it as promised only to them specifically by Jesus. Also those whom they laid their hands on. And those in the two outpourings.

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Joel's prophecy was never limited to the apostles by anyone.
Joel2v28“It will come about after this That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh And your sons and daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, Your young men will see visions.
If Joel says he will pour out on all flesh, and Peter repeats that it will be on all flesh in Acts2, you have no basis to place your doctrinal limits on it!.

Believers have the Holy Spirit as in Joel's prophecy and the fulness comes through repentance.

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We are born again by the Spirit on repentance, but we receive the outpouring when we seek it from God.

Jesus made a timeless promise.-
Luke11v11And which father among you, if the son will ask for a fish, and instead of a fish, will give to him a serpent? 12Or also if he will ask for an egg, will he give to him a scorpion? 13Therefore if you, being evil, know to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the Father who is in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those asking Him!”

The infilling of the Holy Spirit was addressed to those who were already God's Spiritual sons. ie. To those who were already born again by the Spirit of God.

Thus the outpouring of the Spirit is a separate and later event to being born anew by the Spirit.

And nowhere does it limit that outpouring to a single event, or to when apostolic hands are laid on.

swordsman1 said:

I think that proves my point. When Jesus said to the disciples, "He will guide you into all truth" he was only referring to guiding the apostles in their teaching and scripture writing. On other non-doctrinal matters even they occasionally disagreed in their thinking.

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Hi again Swordsman1, the passage that I posited about the dispute that arose in Acts 15 appears to be more about procedural concerns with the missionary journeys than with doctrinal matters, but Galatians 2:11, where Paul tells us that he had to rebuke Peter publically, is part of a passage that was concerned with nothing else.

Peter, and others, including Barnabas, decided to join the "party of the circumcision" in Galatia, and they were perverting the Gospel/teaching a different Gospel ("they were not straightforward about the truth of the Gospel" .. Gal 2:14a).

Yours and His,
David

Carl Emerson said:

The very presence of the Creator of the Universe within the believer is an underrated and little talked about topic.

Can we establish what the believer can expect the Holy Spirit to do within us.

This is not about spiritual gifts, or the empowering for ministry, but simply His presence within.

Given the promise of Jesus that the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truth, is this still happening today? If so does that mean He speaks to us?

Does He no longer dwell within since we have the church as our guide? Does He no longer dwell within because we have the bible instead as our guide.

Your comments much appreciated.

Click to expand...

The church's purpose is actually to tell us about and point us to God so we may believe, and so enter that relationship with Him. From that point He leads us into truth and righteousness, as we continue to hunger and thirst for and seek it.