When was hell created?

66 Books · Oct 7, 2019

zoidar said:
That is a good question. The OT seems to say they are in sheol.

What is in sheol? And where do you think they will be in the future?

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 7, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Even if "it ended", the punishment is eternal. i.e. once someone is destroyed, if they are destroyed , they don't re-appear - they are gone forever....

Lion Bravehart said:
The verse was talking about dead people being risen once again and judged.

Yes. Not contradicting anything I posted.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 7, 2019

Lion Bravehart said:
Maybe He is not at every time period, but certainly, He knows all things and what will happen.

Agreed. He knows of all possibilities, or what men would have done if: "X, Y, or Z" happened, too. "for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day." (Matthew 11:23). "Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes." (Matthew 11:21). Jesus says, "...I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out." (Luke 19:40).

You said:
And I would want to hear what you have to say more when you say they go to sleep and are awakened in hell?

Thanks. If you interested, please read through this thread:

CF Thread - Could There Be A Partial Soul Sleep?

I hope it helps, and may God's goodness be upon you today

Bible Highlighter · Oct 7, 2019

Lion Bravehart said:
Thanks so much, J.! great expository, props to you brother! May you continue on with it. I definitely agree with your conclusion though we can't be too sure. Thanks for your time, glad we can look forward to seeing God destroy Satan soon as the Scripture has said, "And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly." And as it continues, "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen" God bless you brother

Thank you. All glory to the Lord Jesus Christ (of course).
For any or all good done in my life is because of Him working through me.
May He get all the glory.

66 Books · Oct 7, 2019

Thank you for your graciousness, I have taken a look on your post and especially about the Luke 16 parable of Lazarus. I praise God that you look carefully and take the pure revelation of God's Word, so allow me to quote what even the rich man in hell himself said. "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' -Luke 16:24.

We cannot speculate how a man on fire is crying and calling out, but certainly people who are drowning and in pain yell for help no? Unless, of course, they die. But he is still calling out, and maybe even until this day he calls out. I hope this sheds light into your study as I'm only bringing you God's Word.

Many blessings,
L Bravehart

Sophrosyne · Oct 7, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
As for others here who suggest that there is a dimension where time acts differently:

Well, I used to defend the view of how GOD existed in all points in time: Past, present, future simultaneously. I also use to hypothesize that maybe the dimension of hell was also outside of time in some way. But this was merely my influence from Science Fiction movies, books, comics, etc. (that I don't watch anymore); The Bible mentions nothing of these kinds of things except how GOD has a perception of time that a thousand years is like a day to Him, and a day is like a thousand years. That does not mean GOD literally is existing in such a way. It uses the word "like" (NASB) or "as" (KJV) here as a way of comparison (See 2 Peter 3:8).

The reason why I abandoned the view that says that GOD exists in all points in time is because Jesus paid for mankind's sins once for all time (Hebrews 10:12-14) (Romans 6:10). Jesus took care of man's sin one time so as to offer Him the free gift of salvation if they so choose to accept such a gift (Under God's enlightenment or illumination or drawing at the right point or points in their life). In short, Jesus is still not reliving the death of the cross and continually offering Himself up over and over and over again every second of every day. Also, GOD rests on the 7th day in Genesis (See: Genesis 2:2-3), He would not really be resting on the 7th day if He was still living in the past creation week and still working. The Bible makes it clear that GOD does things that are unique and that they happen just one time. This leads me to believe that GOD operates in our timeline.

Does GOD have the power to operate in all points in time? Most definitely! But does He do this? I do not see any evidence of this in Scripture. In fact, it is contradictory to Scripture.

As for the fair judgment of the wicked in hell:

While I am not stating this as 100% fact, I believe it is possible that the wicked in hell go through long periods of sleep and they are possibly awakened at certain points in time. We see the wicked clearly can be conscious and awake in hell like in the account of rich-man and Lazarus. But we also know GOD is fair and just and he will not punish a person waaay beyond what the crime calls for, either (See: Luke 12:47-48).

I think that the problem we have with hell is that the location/dimension of it has many people ascribing laws of our universe/dimension to it and it may well be that there is no direct correlation such that if the laws of time of the two isn't compatible then saying that hell started in time here at a certain time when it may have been done before the creation process or may have happened before the cross and time went backwards in God's realm and that consequences of the cross is in his dimension is seen before the creation event in our universe/dimension. If God sees things from the end to the beginning then time may not be what we think it is where he is and translation between realms may be very complicated and existing in his realm may be such that things we consider that are almost always related to the existence of forward moving time may not be so simply thought of.

Maria Billingsley · Oct 7, 2019

Lion Bravehart said:
Does anyone know when hell was created? Bible reference would be fantastic if you don't mind Tyvm!

I believe there was no reason for a place to put the eternally lost until they became lost. Basically, when Adam and Eve's eye's were opened.
Genesis
He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You[a] shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise,[b] she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 7, 2019

Sophrosyne said:
I think that the problem we have with hell is that the location/dimension of it has many people ascribing laws of our universe/dimension to it and it may well be that there is no direct correlation such that if the laws of time of the two isn't compatible then saying that hell started in time here at a certain time when it may have been done before the creation process or may have happened before the cross and time went backwards in God's realm and that consequences of the cross is in his dimension is seen before the creation event in our universe/dimension. If God sees things from the end to the beginning then time may not be what we think it is where he is and translation between realms may be very complicated and existing in his realm may be such that things we consider that are almost always related to the existence of forward moving time may not be so simply thought of.

Jesus relates spiritual truth with real world examples many times. It would be more consistent to keep with His examples instead of thinking within the realm of Science fiction that is created by men.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 7, 2019

Lion Bravehart said:
Thank you for your graciousness, I have taken a look on your post and especially about the Luke 16 parable of Lazarus. I praise God that you look carefully and take the pure revelation of God's Word, so allow me to quote what even the rich man in hell himself said. "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' -Luke 16:24.

We cannot speculate how a man on fire is crying and calling out, but certainly people who are drowning and in pain yell for help no? Unless, of course, they die. But he is still calling out, and maybe even until this day he calls out. I hope this sheds light into your study as I'm only bringing you God's Word.

Many blessings,
L Bravehart

I believe there are two possibilities to the kind of torment that the rich man was involved in within the place of torments.

Possibility #1. - The rich man was tormented by the heat of the flames in his surrounding area, or within the great gulf fixed between him and Abraham.

Possibility #2. - The rich man was tormented in an other worldly type flame that did not cause him to scream uncontrollably and not listen to others like a real flame of this earth would cause.

The Righterzpen · Oct 7, 2019

vinsight4u said:
Evil angels are not all banned from going to heaven now. Revelation 12
shows that the accuser of the brethren is doing so up to the point of being
cast down to them for the great tribulation time.

One's opinion on this depends on what eschatological view point they take. Not all are dispensationalists. I'm not.

vinsight4u said:
The angels that sinned were cast down to hell. So hell is down under
the earth. The lake of fire -hell-will be created when the pit gets digged
for the wicked. as shown in Psalms
Hell is darkness for those wicked angels.

I'd have to research whether or not the lake of fire is in existence now. The beast is thrown into "the pit" before this current run of time ends; so what ever "the pit" constitutes?

I don't believe hell is a material place under the earth; because those who are there are spirits. And since they don't have material bodies; it would not make sense for them to be "in the middle of the planet". So this is why I would describe hell as a different "dimension" from the material universe.

vinsight4u said:
Revelation 5 shows the angel looked even under the earth to try to
find someone worthy to open the sealed book.

When the lamb opens the seals; this happens at the point Jesus human soul and spirit ascended to heaven at the point he died. The end of Ephesians 1 states that Christ is given all domain, power and authority to rule upon the resurrection.

I believe "the great tribulation" occurred in the time span of the Friday before the triumphant entry into Jerusalem and ended the night of passover with the angel of death, who consigned Jesus's soul to "hell" (Sheol). Jesus didn't die at that point because He had a Divine nature. Jesus said though that unless the tribulation was "cut short" "no flesh would be saved". When is flesh saved? That constitutes the atonement. So "the great tribulation" had to have taken place in conjunction with the crucifixion.

vinsight4u said:
When the earth was created - the morning stars sang. It seems
that they were all holy angels then.

Agreed.

vinsight4u said:
The angels that left -their own habitation -cast down to hell.
So, it seems that the earth had to be created before they sinned.

Agreed here too. We know Satan fell before Adam did, so in order for the disobedient angel to "be cast down to hell"; hell had to have existed before the fall.

The Righterzpen · Oct 7, 2019

Sophrosyne said:
One argument used by people who reject hell is that they should spend only a certain amount of time to pay for their sins it was unfair for a small minor sin to stay the same length of time (forever) as a more heinous sin. My argument is that if there is no concept of time in hell then one is there moment to moment and forever could be the same suffering as but a few minutes as how do you tell the difference if time doesn't pass as we can feel it.

I agree with you that sinners condemnation has no end. Revelation states that "death and hell" are cast into the Lake of Fire. So thus it seems "hell" is a temporary holding place for those who will eventually face their punishment in the Lake of Fire.

Pretty sobering stuff!

Sophrosyne · Oct 7, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Jesus relates spiritual truth with real world examples many times. It would be more consistent to keep with His examples instead of thinking within the real of Science fiction that is created by men.

Yes he does related in parables for a reason in that more can relate to someone like themselves than a sci-fi situation that requires more in depth consideration. The problem with hell is if you stop at what scripture equates those who add things beyond what the scripture says and twist things see no alternative reason based upon the limitations of the universe/dimension we are in for things happening in dimensions/locations that we have incomplete knowledge of that they are by their reasoning conflating as identical in laws of physics and time when there is a very good chance it may not be so simple as that. For things we cannot do a 1 to 1 comparison based upon our dimension we have to think outside of the box to think maybe the reason we got it wrong is because we aren't there and not God.

Sophrosyne · Oct 7, 2019

The Righterzpen said:
I agree with you that sinners condemnation has no end. Revelation states that "death and hell" are cast into the Lake of Fire. So thus it seems "hell" is a temporary holding place for those who will eventually face their punishment in the Lake of Fire.

Pretty sobering stuff!

I agree that many don't take hell seriously and often the same diminish what happened at the cross.

RaymondG · Oct 7, 2019

Sophrosyne said:
I agree that many don't take hell seriously and often the same diminish what happened at the cross.

Why do you believe that one should take hell seriously? Would not taking Heaven, or the work on the cross seriously, be good enough?

nolidad · Oct 7, 2019

Lion Bravehart said:
Does anyone know when hell was created? Bible reference would be fantastic if you don't mind Tyvm!

If you are talking of hell/sheol/hades, one would assume by the time of the first death of a person. As hell is the place of those who physically died and their souls are imprisoned.

If you mean the lake of fire- As it is always mentioned as downward, it COULD be the molten center of the earth (though the universe will be recreated) but whether it exists now is unknown. It will definitely be in place by the end of the millenial kingdom.

The Righterzpen · Oct 7, 2019

Sophrosyne said:
I agree that many don't take hell seriously and often the same diminish what happened at the cross.

Of course they diminish the cross. The cross dealt with the wrath of God and if one does not really believe the wrath of God is real and that they deserve it; the cross is meaningless!

Bible Highlighter · Oct 7, 2019

Sophrosyne said:
Yes he does related in parables for a reason in that more can relate to someone like themselves than a sci-fi situation that requires more in depth consideration. The problem with hell is if you stop at what scripture equates those who add things beyond what the scripture says and twist things see no alternative reason based upon the limitations of the universe/dimension we are in for things happening in dimensions/locations that we have incomplete knowledge of that they are by their reasoning conflating as identical in laws of physics and time when there is a very good chance it may not be so simple as that. For things we cannot do a 1 to 1 comparison based upon our dimension we have to think outside of the box to think maybe the reason we got it wrong is because we aren't there and not God.

I am not discounting in thinking outside the box, when it comes to things that are clearly note explained in Scripture, but it should by no means be dogmatic. Post #49 would be one example. But I usually tend to think that we should give room to make for an allowance for how things can play out in real world terms, too (Because Jesus did not talk about illustrate spiritual truth without real world examples).

RaymondG · Oct 7, 2019

The Righterzpen said:
Of course they diminish the cross. The cross dealt with the wrath of God and if one does not really believe the wrath of God is real and that they deserve it; the cross is meaningless!

Some would say that the idea that, with all the Jesus went through, most people will still enter a hell, would be diminishing the cross. Therefore those who dont believe in the hell of torment, would have a better chance of giving the Cross all power........as opposed to those who believe it will save a few....

66 Books · Oct 7, 2019

RaymondG said:
Some would say that the idea that, with all the Jesus went through, most people will still enter a hell, would be diminishing the cross. Therefore those who dont believe in the hell of torment, would have a better chance of giving the Cross all power........as opposed to those who believe it was save a few....

We don't give the cross any power, the power is there regardless. It is the power of God unto salvation. Just because a few believe or a few does not believe does not mean that the cross losses its power. Just as if the Word of God does not lose its power if many or few believed it. Jesus Christ, not me, nor you nor anyone else, paid the price for us that we may live. And the Scriptures said, "For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ." So "therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life."

Let all the glory be unto Christ, and indeed it is.
L Bravehart

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 7, 2019

RaymondG said:
Some would say that the idea that, with all the Jesus went through, most people will still enter a hell, would be diminishing the cross. Therefore those who dont believe in the hell of torment, would have a better chance of giving the Cross all power........as opposed to those who believe it was save a few....

Ditto previous post - what we do does not change the crucifixion.

Likewise, also, why would anyone dare think that believing a false teaching would somehow "have a better chance of giving the Cross" anything at all, especially any "power" ? The false teachings lead to the wide road to destruction, not to eternal life.

When was hell created?

Active Member

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Active Member

Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16

Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Active Member

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Similar threads