Commandments Question

Vicky gould said:

Sorry, hope I am still in the ball park. Simplified I hope.

O. C. - fulfilled

N. C.- fulfilled

??. C - fulfilled

I have gotten heat with folks over Scripture as well. No problem. You have been so patients with me I just need those three answered as well. God bless

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Old Covenant (Old Testament):

The previous oral laws before the Written Law, and the Law of Moses (the 613) is fulfilled (This is the Old Testament portion of our Bibles).

The Old Covenant prophecies of the 1st coming of the Messiah have been fulfilled.

The Old Covenant prophecies of the 2nd coming of the Messiah and the End Times have not been fulfilled yet.

The Old Covenant was established (or began) in blood when the Lord killed an animal to clothe Adam and Eve's nakedness. The Old Covenant ended with Christ's death upon the cross.

New Covenant (New Testament):

The New Covenant began when Christ died upon the cross. Although, Christ was preparing men of God for the New Covenant teachings by changing certain things in the Old Law within His earthly ministry.

Jesus and his followers gave us added End Times prophecies that have yet to be fulfilled.

Some prophecies by Christ's followers are being fulfilled now in our own time today (Like 2 Timothy 3:1-9).

The New Covenant is the second major covenant mentioned in Hebrews 8:7, Matthew 26:27-28, and Hebrews 9:16-17.

Currently we are still within the New Covenant.

The Bible makes no mention of a third covenant dedicated in blood.

timothyu said:

I don't know about that, but the will of God makes the will of man stand out by comparison under the light of scrutiny. As a result we are left to chose for ourselves which is the more passive and productive as a way of life and governance. (self serving or servitude)

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You said that you did not know that the law increased disobedience.

Romans 5:20
The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more...

Now you know that law increases sin.

Bible Highlighter said:

I take discussions of the Bible very seriously. But if you desire to express your beliefs from the Bible, you have to use the Bible (i.e. quote verses and or passages) in order to convince me. That's how it works for me. You present your case with Scripture, and I will discuss those verses with you. No verses or passages and there is no real frame of reference to have a conversation involving the Bible.

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Hi Bible, since you seem not to answer my questions on fulfillment please address this statement by the Covenant M

Vicky gould said:

Hi Bible, since you seem not to answer my questions on fulfillment please address this statement by the Covenant M

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See Post #161.

Vicky gould said:

Yes sir sorry sir. under one part under it all/ The Law was mot given in sections and told to be fulfilled or dropped at will. If you are a Sabbath keeper under Law or Grace you must obey all the Law. I don't know what is wrong with you

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I also say to you.. I don't know what is wrong with you. Where in the NT does it say that we must all obey all of the law?

The apostles dropped some OT laws and traditions. Not only that but the apostle Paul wrote that we are not under the law but under grace.

Go and read the Acts. They gathered to worship on the first day of the week. Sunday.

And read the epistles of the apostle Paul who taught that all is permissible. Such as it being permissable to eat any foods other than kosher and permissible to worship on Sunday.

"Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a festival, a New Moon, or a Sabbath."

Do not rebuke me for things that we are supposed to have freedom in.

klutedavid said:

You said that you did not know that the law increased disobedience.

Romans 5:20
The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more...

Now you know that law increases sin.

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I believe the AMP translation helps to clarify what is actually being said in Romans 5:20.

"But the Law came to increase and expand [the awareness of] the trespass [by defining and unmasking sin]. But where sin increased, [God’s remarkable, gracious gift of] grace [His unmerited favor] has surpassed it and increased all the more," (Romans 5:20 AMP).

Bible Highlighter said:

I take discussions of the Bible very seriously. But if you desire to express your beliefs from the Bible, you have to use the Bible (i.e. quote verses and or passages) in order to convince me. That's how it works for me. You present your case with Scripture, and I will discuss those verses with you. No verses or passages and there is no real frame of reference to have a conversation involving the Bible.

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Hi Bible, since you seem not to answer my questions on fulfillment please address this statement by the Covenant Maker, Jesus Christ:

Matthew 26:29 Wycliffe Bible (WYC)

29 And I say to you, I shall not drink from this time, of this fruit of the vine, [till] into that day when I shall drink it new with you, in the kingdom of my Father.

drink it new does that mean there is a 3rd Covenant? No! the word means its fulfillment in its final form. The Passover, Last supper, will find its complete fulfillment in the Wedding Supper of the Lamb when the Bridegroom and His Bride are wed. this is the Edenic Covenant that has been revealed in different, New(ness) down through the millennia's, The unspecified animal slain in the Garden would eventually be revealed as the Passover Lamb who was revealed not by animal but by The Passover Lamb of God. But even this was not the fulfillment because the Wedding Supper of the Lamb will fulfill it.

Now about your covenants that are still in effect for unbelievers not the Redeemed. The Old Testament Law has never been fulfilled for unbelievers. That covenant, for unbelievers only, will be fulfilled ay the GWTJ and the goats are tossed into the LOF.

fwGod said:

I also say to you.. I don't know what is wrong with you. Where in the NT does it say that we must all obey all of the law?

The apostles dropped some OT laws and traditions. Not only that but the apostle Paul wrote that we are not under the law but under grace.

Go and read the Acts. They gathered to worship on the first day of the week. Sunday.

And read the epistles of the apostle Paul who taught that all is permissible. Such as it being permissable to eat any foods other than kosher and permissible to worship on Sunday.

"Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a festival, a New Moon, or a Sabbath."

Do not rebuke me for things that we are supposed to have freedom in.

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sorry somehow tagged you by mistake it was meant for Bible Please forgive

fwGod said:

I also say to you.. I don't know what is wrong with you. Where in the NT does it say that we must all obey all of the law?

The apostles dropped some OT laws and traditions. Not only that but the apostle Paul wrote that we are not under the law but under grace.

Go and read the Acts. They gathered to worship on the first day of the week. Sunday.

And read the epistles of the apostle Paul who taught that all is permissible. Such as it being permissable to eat any foods other than kosher and permissible to worship on Sunday.

"Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a festival, a New Moon, or a Sabbath."

Do not rebuke me for things that we are supposed to have freedom in.

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hope you saw my mea culpa. that was unwittingly sent to you meant for Bible highliter. Pkease forgive

Bible Highlighter said:

See Post #161.

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The end of a law
For Christ has brought the Law to an end, so that everyone who believes is put right with God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For the Messiah is the culmination of the Law as far as righteousness is concerned for everyone who believes.

Vicky gould said:

Believe it or not I actually have read what you have requested me to read. I would like to read your explanation of what or who fulfilled the covenants? Or what covenants remain to be fulfilled for believing Christians? Thanks

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Jesus fulfilled the 1st Covenant.
What covenant remains to be fulfilled?
None. The second covenant is an everlasting or eternal covenant.
For Christ forever lives to make intercession for us.

Vicky gould said:

The end of a law
For Christ has brought the Law to an end, so that everyone who believes is put right with God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For the Messiah is the culmination of the Law as far as righteousness is concerned for everyone who believes.

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Romans 9-11 is focused on talking to Israel and their salvation.
Romans 10:4 that you quote is in reference to them and how they are hanging on to the Old Law of righteousness (i.e. the 613 laws within the Law of Moses) as a means of justification.
However, we are under a New Covenant with New Commands.
Jesus began the New Covenant (the second covenant) that is an everlasting covenant.
There is no third covenant. There are only two covenants, and we are now in the second covenant (Which began with Christ's death upon the cross).

Bible Highlighter said:

I believe the AMP translation helps to clarify what is actually being said in Romans 5:20.

"But the Law came to increase and expand [the awareness of] the trespass [by defining and unmasking sin]. But where sin increased, [God’s remarkable, gracious gift of] grace [His unmerited favor] has surpassed it and increased all the more," (Romans 5:20 AMP).

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Hi, you still haven’f Answered the Lord’s promise to fulfill the Passover in heaven.

You are seriously need some other translations to draw from. The Law not only made it possible to know sin sin became totally sinful. Man with only a partial knowledge of sin don’t see them needing a Savior. Example Paul, as to the lLaw perfect. Under grace I am the chief of sinners. The heart is deceitful above all else and lies to man and gets away with it in his mind. Only under Grace does man see himself as the latter and not the former.

Bible Highlighter said:

Jesus fulfilled the 1st Covenant.
What covenant remains to be fulfilled?
None. The second covenant is an everlasting or eternal covenant.
For Christ forever lives to make intercession for us.

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I sent you the Lord’s prophecy, which makes it a Law according to your N. T. Prophecies.

I will say it again the only Covenant Maker the Passover was not fulfilled and would fulfilled in the kingdom of heaven.

Bible Highlighter said:

Romans 9-11 is focused on talking to Israel and their salvation.
Romans 10:4 that you quote is in reference to them and how they are hanging on to the Old Law of righteousness (i.e. the 613 laws within the Law of Moses) as a means of justification.
However, we are under a New Covenant with New Commands.
Jesus began the New Covenant (the second covenant) that is an everlasting covenant.
There is no third covenant. There are only two covenants, and we are now in the second covenant (Which began with Christ's death upon the cross).

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Actual it began when the prophecy of the two seeds, Christ and anti-Christ in the Garden. It was then that Edenic Covenant between Man was entered into and they were then covered by the unnamed, as yet, Lamb.

Vicky gould said:

Hi Bible, since you seem not to answer my questions on fulfillment please address this statement by the Covenant Maker, Jesus Christ:

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I answered them in two different ways. See Post #161, and Post #172 please.
The post # is located at the top right of each person's post in white lettering (on a blue background).

You said:

Matthew 26:29 Wycliffe Bible (WYC)

29 And I say to you, I shall not drink from this time, of this fruit of the vine, [till] into that day when I shall drink it new with you, in the kingdom of my Father.

drink it new does that mean there is a 3rd Covenant? No!

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Your the one who suggested a third covenant in your previous post. I have been advocating the fact that there are only two major covenants (i.e. the Old Testament, and the New Testament).

the word means its fulfillment in its final form.

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Look. I am not into rewriting what the Word of God plainly says. If you believe "drink it new" means fulfilment, then you need to prove that with Scripture and not just because you say so or because somebody else says so.

You said:

The Passover, Last supper, will find its complete fulfillment in the Wedding Supper of the Lamb when the Bridegroom and His Bride are wed. this is the Edenic Covenant that has been revealed in different, New(ness) down through the millennia's, The unspecified animal slain in the Garden would eventually be revealed as the Passover Lamb who was revealed not by animal but by The Passover Lamb of God. But even this was not the fulfillment because the Wedding Supper of the Lamb will fulfill it.

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Also, no verse that I know of says the wedding supper of the Lamb will start a New Covenant. Scripture says a covenant is dedicated in blood.

"Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood."
(Hebrews 9:18).

"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" (Hebrews 9:14).

Scripture mentions only two major covenants and not three.
Yes, the bride of Christ will enter into a marriage covenant with the Lord but this is a sub covenant under the umbrella of the New Testament or New Covenant. The New Covenant (the second covenant) is an everlasting or eternal covenant.

Vicky gould said:

Actual it began when the prophecy of the two seeds, Christ and anti-Christ in the Garden. It was then that Edenic Covenant between Man was entered into and they were then covered by the unnamed, as yet, Lamb.

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Okay. You are out there in left field again, and you are not offering any Scriptural backing for your conclusions. I am moving on from our conversation unless you sufficiently explain the beliefs you propose with the Bible.

Good evening to you in the Lord.

Ken Rank said:

But TODAY that word means, "anyone who isn't a Jew."

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As it was in the time of Jesus and that also meant the other houses of Israel.

Vicky gould said:

Actual it began when the prophecy of the two seeds, Christ and anti-Christ in the Garden. It was then that Edenic Covenant between Man was entered into and they were then covered by the unnamed, as yet, Lamb.

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Note: When i say sufficiently explain your belief with the Bible, I mean your belief has to line up exactly with what the Bible plainly says. No fudging of words to mean what you want them to say or what somebody else wants them to say. If a word does have another meaning, it should be supported by pointing to another part of the Bible that says that.

Bible Highlighter said:

For why else do you think your Bible is divided into two sections (i.e. One called the Old Testament, and the other called the New Testament)?

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Pre-Kingdom, post Kingdom