LDS LDS Jesus Could Have Lost His Godhood

He is the way · Aug 21, 2019

Pedra said:
Completely dishonest, it is Mormonism that twists, ignores,dodges, misrepresents Christian scriptures & continues to post false the JS teachings while refusing to answer direct questions.

Why would any Christian believe that the Bible, especially a direct quote from Jesus Christ, is dishonest?

(New Testament | 1 John 3:13 - 24)

13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

He is the way · Aug 21, 2019

Daniel Marsh said:
James 4:17 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
17 If you fail to do what you know is right, you are sinning.

That is correct.

He is the way · Aug 21, 2019

Daniel Marsh said:
It should be noted that a study of the Trinity should not be undertaken apart from a study of the nature of God.

There Is One God

One God: Explicit Statements

OT: Deut. 4:35; 4:39; 32:39; 2 Sam. 22:32; Isa. 37:20: 43:10; 44:6-8; 45:5; 45:14; 45:21-22; 46:9

NT: John 5:44; Rom. 3:30; 16:27; 1 Cor. 8:4-6; Gal. 3:20; Eph. 4:6; 1 Tim. 1:17; 1 Tim. 2:5; James 2:19; Jude 25

None like God (in his essence)

Explicit statements: Ex. 8:10; 9:14; 15:11; 2 Sam. 7:22; 1 Kgs. 8:23; 1 Chr. 17:20; Psa. 86:8; Isa. 40:18, 40:25: 44:7; 46:5, 46:9; Jer. 10:6-7; Micah 7:18

Being like God a Satanic lie: Gen. 3:5; Isa. 14:14; John 8:44

Fallen man become "like God" only in that he took upon himself to know good and evil, not that he acquired godhood: Gen. 3:22

Only one true God: 2 Chr. 15:3; Jer. 10:10; John 17:3; 1 Thess. 1:9; 1 John 5:20-21

All other "gods" are therefore false gods (idols), not gods at all: Deut. 32:21; 1 Sam. 12:21; Psa. 96:5; Isa. 37:19; 41:23-24, 41:29; Jer. 2:11; 5:7; 16:20; 1 Cor. 8:4; 10:19-20

Demons, not gods, are the power behind false worship: Deut. 32:17; Psa. 106:37; 1 Cor. 10:20; Gal. 4:8

How human beings are meant to be "like God"

The image of God indicates that man is to represent God and share his moral character, not that man can be metaphysically like God: Gen. 1:26-27; 5:1; 1 Cor. 11:7; Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10

The goal of being like Christ has the following aspects only:

Sharing His moral character: 1 John 3:2; Rom. 8:29

Being raised with glorified, immortal bodies like His: Phil. 3:21; 1 Cor. 15:49

Becoming partakers of the divine nature refers again to moral nature ("having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust"), not metaphysical nature: 2 Pet. 1:4; see also Heb. 12:10; on the meaning of "partakers," See 1 Cor. 10:18, 10:20; 2 Cor. 1:17; 1 Pet. 5:1

For us there is only one God, the Father:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:6)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Pedra · Aug 21, 2019

He is the way said:
Why would any Christian believe that the Bible, especially a direct quote from Jesus Christ, is dishonest?

Thanks again for twisting & misrepresenting words. Really, the fruit of Mormonism is so easy to see.

He is the way · Aug 21, 2019

Pedra said:
Thanks again for twisting & misrepresenting words. Really, the fruit of Mormonism is so easy to see.

Why not be honest and just say that you do not believe that keeping the commandments is necessary to have eternal life?

Pedra · Aug 22, 2019

He is the way said:
Why not be honest and just say that you do not believe that keeping the commandments is necessary to have eternal life?

ALL of us in this thread have told you the gospel of salvation according to the scripture, but you refuse to hear and you reject the truth of the scripture and sound doctrines given. It is by grace through faith not works that we are saved. For Joseph Smith the scripture was not enough, same with his followers so with itching ears seeking the teachings of the false teacher who tells you fables.

2 Tim 4:3
"For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires."

Romans 3: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believes in Jesus.

27Where is boasting then? It IS EXCLUDED. By what law? of works? No: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Peter1000 · Aug 22, 2019

Pedra said:
ALL of us in this thread have told you the gospel of salvation according to the scripture, but you refuse to hear and you reject the truth of the scripture and sound doctrines given. It is by grace through faith not works that we are saved. For Joseph Smith the scripture was not enough, same with his followers so with itching ears seeking the teachings of the false teacher who tells you fables.

2 Tim 4:3
"For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires."

Romans 3: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believes in Jesus.

27Where is boasting then? It IS EXCLUDED. By what law? of works? No: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

So let me ask you a practical question.

So a person believes in Jesus Christ and receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit. According to you, this person is automatically saved in the KOG, no matter what? This person can sit in front of a TV for the rest of their life and when they die, Jesus will welcome them into his kingdom and give them eternal life.

This is a serious question, I am not messing with you. I need to know.

He is the way · Aug 22, 2019

Pedra said:
ALL of us in this thread have told you the gospel of salvation according to the scripture, but you refuse to hear and you reject the truth of the scripture and sound doctrines given. It is by grace through faith not works that we are saved. For Joseph Smith the scripture was not enough, same with his followers so with itching ears seeking the teachings of the false teacher who tells you fables.

2 Tim 4:3
"For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires."

Romans 3: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believes in Jesus.

27Where is boasting then? It IS EXCLUDED. By what law? of works? No: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Cherry picking the scriptures will not give you eternal life and although we are NOT saved by works, we are NOT saved without them either. Dead faith does not save. Faith without works is DEAD. I have waned everyone on this forum and there is no excuse for not obeying Christ's word to keep the commandments. Do people believe Romans 3 and not Romans 6:

(New Testament | Romans 6:1 - 16)

1 WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

So will they choose eternal life or death through sin?

Peter1000 · Aug 22, 2019

Daniel Marsh said:
I will preach on the plurality of Gods. I have selected this text for that express purpose. I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. It has been preached by the Elders for fifteen years.

I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural: and who can contradict it!
Joseph Smith's Sermon On Plurality of Gods

God An Exalted Man

I will go back to the beginning before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth, for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why He interferes with the affairs of man.

God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by His power, was to make himself visible,—I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked and conversed with Him, as one man talks and communes with another.

In order to understand the subject of the dead, for consolation of those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how He came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see.

These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible.
Joseph Smith's King Follet Sermon

Yes, all that you said, we believe. We believe that God created us to be like he is, for the fellowship, and the economy of the things God does. He wants other people to be involved in his quest, which is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

If one has eternal life, you will live with God and Jesus for all eternities (that is billions of billions of billions of billions of trillions of trillions of years). During that span of time, living with God and Jesus, you will be engaged in what they do. One of their main purposes is to create. Over this much time, you will learn to create also, so be happy to believe in Jesus, and look forward to an incredible eternal life, it may be way more fascinating than you think.

Peter1000 · Aug 22, 2019

Pedra said:
Thanks again for twisting & misrepresenting words. Really, the fruit of Mormonism is so easy to see.

How is it twisting and misrepresenting the direct words from the bible? How is that dishonest? Are you saying that the words of the bible are dishonest. Because that is all that 'He is the way', did. He brought you the scripture without comment.

To say, "thanks again for twisting and misrepresenting words" is directly saying that those words are dishonest words and you should be ashamed for quoting them. How do you live with those sentiments.

I could possibly see how you felt if he was quoting the words of JS, but he was quoting the words of Jesus Christ without comment.

It is just proof that Jesus is not your go to person for doctrine. It is Paul, and only 1/3 of Paul that you go to for doctrinal authority. That is why I keep saying that you only read 1/3 the bible, the other 2/3 are dishonest and twisted words, so you either never read them, or you plug your nose and hurry through them. What is it?

Pedra · Aug 23, 2019

Peter1000 said:
So let me ask you a practical question.

So a person believes in Jesus Christ and receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit. According to you, this person is automatically saved in the KOG, no matter what? This person can sit in front of a TV for the rest of their life and when they die, Jesus will welcome them into his kingdom and give them eternal life.This is a serious question, I am not messing with you. I need to know.

STOP saying my statements are just my beliefs, or "according to me" --it is according to the teachings written in the scriptures for us, the ones given us by JESUS and His Apostles. When we repent of our sins & believe in Jesus Christ, we are forgiven for our sins & saved, we have been born again from above, we are a new creature in Christ. GOD gives us a new heart & the Holy Spirit to guide us. READ this explanation found HERE--------> What does it mean to be born of God? | GotQuestions.org READ the scriptures it gives. LISTEN to this teaching, it EXPLAINS being born again in DETAIL.

Peter1000 · Aug 23, 2019

Pedra said:
STOP saying my statements are just my beliefs, or "according to me" --it is according to the teachings written in the scriptures for us, the ones given us by JESUS and His Apostles. When we repent of our sins & believe in Jesus Christ, we are forgiven for our sins & saved, we have been born again from above, we are a new creature in Christ. GOD gives us a new heart & the Holy Spirit to guide us. READ this explanation found HERE--------> What does it mean to be born of God? | GotQuestions.org READ the scriptures it gives. LISTEN to this teaching, it EXPLAINS being born again in DETAIL.

Here is the key statement from reading your article:
When we are born of God, we have a new heart, one that wants to please God (Ezekiel 36:26; 2 Corinthians 5:9; Colossians 1:10). This does not come about by good intentions or white-knuckled effort. We please our new Father by surrendering to His Holy Spirit who lives within us.

We please God by surrendering to His Holy Spirit who lives within us. So if the Holy Spirit tells you to be engaged in witnessing for Jesus Christ every other Saturday for 2 hours on the corner of your street, would you follow those promptings and do that good work?

Pedra · Aug 23, 2019

Peter1000 said:
Here is the key statement from reading your article:
When we are born of God, we have a new heart, one that wants to please God (Ezekiel 36:26; 2 Corinthians 5:9; Colossians 1:10). This does not come about by good intentions or white-knuckled effort. We please our new Father by surrendering to His Holy Spirit who lives within us.

We please God by surrendering to His Holy Spirit who lives within us. So if the Holy Spirit tells you to be engaged in witnessing for Jesus Christ every other Saturday for 2 hours on the corner of your street, would you follow those promptings and do that good work?

It is the Holy Spirit in us who produces the good works after we are saved. We don't keep the laws to be saved. We who are in Christ have received salvation by Christ's sacrifice on the cross for our sins. His death & resurrection on the cross is sufficient.

Peter1000 · Aug 23, 2019

Pedra said:
It is the Holy Spirit in us who produces the good works after we are saved. We don't keep the laws to be saved. We who are in Christ have received salvation by Christ's sacrifice on the cross for our sins. His death & resurrection on the cross is sufficient.

What does it mean that the Holy Spirit in us produces the good works after we are saved?

Give me a real world example of what that means?

Pedra · Aug 23, 2019

Peter1000 said:
What does it mean that the Holy Spirit in us produces the good works after we are saved?

Give me a real world example of what that means?

What do you think it means? The article & scriptures given made it self-explanatory imo. What are eg of good works? the Holy Spirit changes us, we no longer want to do the things we did before, things like making us sin less, obeying His precepts, whatever & wherever the HOLY SPIRIT compels us to do "good works" is from Him not from us striving to do something to EARN salvation or to Keep it. It is Christ who justifies us. The Holy Spirit compels us to become more like Him. We might be compelled to secretly take our birthday money and give it all to support a missions family. We might anonymously give our old car to a family in our church who is in need of it instead. We might attend the all prayer meetings & serve at our local church and hand out Bible tracts door to door ...we might chose not to fight with our brother- in- law but instead forgive him and pray for his salvation & the salvation of his family .....etc...etc... whatever.
When we are truly saved, i.e. born again , we have a testimony, we know we have been spiritually, supernaturally transformed and are being lead every second & being sanctified until the day we meet Christ either in the air or face to face when we pass over. He will finish His work in us.

Peter1000 · Aug 23, 2019

Pedra said:
What do you think it means? The article & scriptures given made it self-explanatory imo. What are eg of good works? the Holy Spirit changes us, we no longer want to do the things we did before, things like making us sin less, obeying His precepts, whatever & wherever the HOLY SPIRIT compels us to do "good works" is from Him not from us striving to do something to EARN salvation or to Keep it. It is Christ who justifies us. The Holy Spirit compels us to become more like Him. We might be compelled to secretly take our birthday money and give it all to support a missions family. We might anonymously give our old car to a family in our church who is in need of it instead. We might attend the all prayer meetings & serve at our local church and hand out Bible tracts door to door ...we might chose not to fight with our brother- in- law but instead forgive him and pray for his salvation & the salvation of his family .....etc...etc... whatever.
When we are truly saved, i.e. born again , we have a testimony, we know we have been spiritually, supernaturally transformed and are being lead every second & being sanctified until the day we meet Christ either in the air or face to face when we pass over. He will finish His work in us.

Thank you, that is what I needed to hear. You are a good person and I look forward to seeing you in the kingdom of God.

Pedra · Aug 23, 2019

Peter1000 said:
Thank you, that is what I needed to hear. You are a good person and I look forward to seeing you in the kingdom of God.

You're welcome. :swoon:

I just fell over , Peter.
LOL!

Peter1000 · Aug 23, 2019

Pedra said:
I just fell over , Peter.
LOL!

Why? Because I said you were a good person, or because I said see you in the kingdom of God?

Pedra · Aug 23, 2019

Peter1000 said:
Why? Because I said you were a good person, or because I said see you in the kingdom of God?

Thank you btw, because of the former. I'm used to being pummeled with unflattering comments.

Peter1000 · Aug 25, 2019

Pedra said:
Tricky how Mormonism uses the familiar christian phrases but how Mormon's get to that conclusion is a whole different story. That is deception at work.

I still believe in the divine Christ and I follow him. I may think differently about how he got his divinity, but he did and he is and he has the divine power to save us. That is why we follow him.

That is not deception. That is not trickery. You teach people about the Trinity, but you do not know the details, and when pressed, you say "it is a mystery, and cannot be understood by finite minds like ours". Is that deception? You say all you have to do is believe, and you are saved. Is that deception? Do you downplay the rigors of the religion so that people think its easy to have eternal life with God and Jesus? And so they become Christians. Is that deception on your part?

We can go on and on about deception. You are are as deceptive as I am. So instead why don't we agree to disagree and lead people to the divine Christ? That is a better use of our time.

LDS LDS Jesus Could Have Lost His Godhood

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Similar threads