Is Capitalism self-destructive?

TheLostCoin

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I’ve kind of come to the conclusion of this political opinion, and I was wondering if anybody here could challenge this opinion, or if anybody would want to suggest a solution to these problems, especially in light of the growth of globalization.

For one, while Marx was wrong on many things, I don’t think he was wrong when it comes to how Capitalism would eventually fall. Marx posited that Capitalism would only produce innovation, which leads to more efficient means of production. I.e., the replacement of the worker with technology. This in turn reduces the demand and supply of skilled labor, and labor in general, while leading to a much more concrete divide between the workers and the employers, with the wages of workers going down as the rich get richer. This cycle inevitably leads to horrible living conditions and standards, which leads to a collapse of society through either functioning or mass revolts, which Capitalism can’t function in.

For two, another way I see it as self-destructive is the feeding into passions through the services, products, and marketing that Capitalism supplies. Many people seek to find out why our society is so broken - why families are so broken, why there is a collapse in religiosity; why divorce is so high, why adultrey is so high, why abortion is so high - why why why. I think that a massive part is Capitalism itself, which feeds into our passions. Why do we sex everywhere? Movies, commercials, billboards, etc. The internet, a product of Capitalist society, makes voyerism an act of booting up the computer and typing in an address. What about drug usage? Delicious and addictive foods like fast food and sodas and caffeine? The projection of perfect people, which forces teenagers and women especially to have psychologically ill perceptions of what it means to be skinny, what it means to be beautiful, what it means to be sexy. Superman’s dead by Our Lady Peace sums up this specific problem pretty well. The comforts of technology leads to laziness and the lack of discipline; who needs to even leave their room when they got the internet?

And these pleasures work because man is a fallen creature, prone to temptations that offer immediate gratification - at least, those who follow the broad path and not the narrow path. These products of passion induction only lead to pure Sodom and Gomorrah - a society of animals. Is the introduction of homosexuality as normative really that surprising, when immoral application of sexual gratification was introduced by our society as normal by Capitalism and it’s products? Why should homosexuality not be seen as good if adultrey is not seen as bad? And Capitalism only further cements the process by advertising “Pride month” everywhere, further feeding into our passions and earning more money. Why should I follow religion at all when it mandates audacious requirements that are so counter intuitive to our pleasure society? Why do you think so many churches - most noteably, Catholicism - have eased the ascetic requirements put on the lay people? Simple - to prevent apostasy and prevent the fishes from leaving the net, in light of our comfort society pushing hedonism, the opposite goal which religions like Christianity, religions like Islam, religions like Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. wish to accomplish - restriction of passions for some greater goal.

Thus, society collapses.

Thoughts?
 

timewerx

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I’ve kind of come to the conclusion of this political opinion, and I was wondering if anybody here could challenge this opinion, or if anybody would want to suggest a solution to these problems, especially in light of the growth of globalization.

If Capitalism is sustainable for an indefinite period, the Kingdom of God would use a similar structure.

But no, the Kingdom of God is more or less socialist.

- Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard - Those who came late (not due to tardiness) and did little work were compensated as much as those who came early and did much work.

That is how it will be in the Kingdom of God.

In a 100% Capitalist nation, if you are just starting out, in work or business w/e, you will earn a lot less income than those who are "old" in the work. This is opposite of the Kingdom of God.

Capitalist state - emphasis on being "self-made" or caters to the strongest - the "survival of the fittest".

Kingdom of God - emphasis on the generosity of God, NOT your strengths, talents, hard work, etc. Also takes care of the weak.

Countries in the world who have successfully eliminated poverty like Iceland is not 100% capitalist. They have effective means to efficiently redistribute wealth while still engaging in capitalistic activities. It reflects the generosity of their their Government, laws, and the lack of corruption. They also take good care of their weak, thus, solving poverty which also produces a very low crime rate and high quality of living.
 
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Tom 1

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I’ve kind of come to the conclusion of this political opinion, and I was wondering if anybody here could challenge this opinion, or if anybody would want to suggest a solution to these problems, especially in light of the growth of globalization.

For one, while Marx was wrong on many things, I don’t think he was wrong when it comes to how Capitalism would eventually fall. Marx posited that Capitalism would only produce innovation, which leads to more efficient means of production. I.e., the replacement of the worker with technology. This in turn reduces the demand and supply of skilled labor, and labor in general, while leading to a much more concrete divide between the workers and the employers, with the wages of workers going down as the rich get richer. This cycle inevitably leads to horrible living conditions and standards, which leads to a collapse of society through either functioning or mass revolts, which Capitalism can’t function in.

For two, another way I see it as self-destructive is the feeding into passions through the services, products, and marketing that Capitalism supplies. Many people seek to find out why our society is so broken - why families are so broken, why there is a collapse in religiosity; why divorce is so high, why adultrey is so high, why abortion is so high - why why why. I think that a massive part is Capitalism itself, which feeds into our passions. Why do we sex everywhere? Movies, commercials, billboards, etc. The internet, a product of Capitalist society, makes voyerism an act of booting up the computer and typing in an address. What about drug usage? Delicious and addictive foods like fast food and sodas and caffeine? The projection of perfect people, which forces teenagers and women especially to have psychologically ill perceptions of what it means to be skinny, what it means to be beautiful, what it means to be sexy. Superman’s dead by Our Lady Peace sums up this specific problem pretty well. The comforts of technology leads to laziness and the lack of discipline; who needs to even leave their room when they got the internet?

And these pleasures work because man is a fallen creature, prone to temptations that offer immediate gratification - at least, those who follow the broad path and not the narrow path. These products of passion induction only lead to pure Sodom and Gomorrah - a society of animals. Is the introduction of homosexuality as normative really that surprising, when immoral application of sexual gratification was introduced by our society as normal by Capitalism and it’s products? Why should homosexuality not be seen as good if adultrey is not seen as bad? And Capitalism only further cements the process by advertising “Pride month” everywhere, further feeding into our passions and earning more money. Why should I follow religion at all when it mandates audacious requirements that are so counter intuitive to our pleasure society? Why do you think so many churches - most noteably, Catholicism - have eased the ascetic requirements put on the lay people? Simple - to prevent apostasy and prevent the fishes from leaving the net, in light of our comfort society pushing hedonism, the opposite goal which religions like Christianity, religions like Islam, religions like Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. wish to accomplish - restriction of passions for some greater goal.

Thus, society collapses.

Thoughts?

Paraphrasing Churchill, it's the worst political system there is, apart from all the others.
 
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SkyWriting

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I’ve kind of come to the conclusion of this political opinion, and I was wondering if anybody here could challenge this opinion, or if anybody would want to suggest a solution to these problems, especially in light of the growth of globalization.

For one, while Marx was wrong on many things, I don’t think he was wrong when it comes to how Capitalism would eventually fall. Marx posited that Capitalism would only produce innovation, which leads to more efficient means of production. I.e., the replacement of the worker with technology. This in turn reduces the demand and supply of skilled labor, and labor in general, while leading to a much more concrete divide between the workers and the employers, with the wages of workers going down as the rich get richer. This cycle inevitably leads to horrible living conditions and standards, which leads to a collapse of society through either functioning or mass revolts, which Capitalism can’t function in.

For two, another way I see it as self-destructive is the feeding into passions through the services, products, and marketing that Capitalism supplies. Many people seek to find out why our society is so broken - why families are so broken, why there is a collapse in religiosity; why divorce is so high, why adultrey is so high, why abortion is so high - why why why. I think that a massive part is Capitalism itself, which feeds into our passions. Why do we sex everywhere? Movies, commercials, billboards, etc. The internet, a product of Capitalist society, makes voyerism an act of booting up the computer and typing in an address. What about drug usage? Delicious and addictive foods like fast food and sodas and caffeine? The projection of perfect people, which forces teenagers and women especially to have psychologically ill perceptions of what it means to be skinny, what it means to be beautiful, what it means to be sexy. Superman’s dead by Our Lady Peace sums up this specific problem pretty well. The comforts of technology leads to laziness and the lack of discipline; who needs to even leave their room when they got the internet?

And these pleasures work because man is a fallen creature, prone to temptations that offer immediate gratification - at least, those who follow the broad path and not the narrow path. These products of passion induction only lead to pure Sodom and Gomorrah - a society of animals. Is the introduction of homosexuality as normative really that surprising, when immoral application of sexual gratification was introduced by our society as normal by Capitalism and it’s products? Why should homosexuality not be seen as good if adultrey is not seen as bad? And Capitalism only further cements the process by advertising “Pride month” everywhere, further feeding into our passions and earning more money. Why should I follow religion at all when it mandates audacious requirements that are so counter intuitive to our pleasure society? Why do you think so many churches - most noteably, Catholicism - have eased the ascetic requirements put on the lay people? Simple - to prevent apostasy and prevent the fishes from leaving the net, in light of our comfort society pushing hedonism, the opposite goal which religions like Christianity, religions like Islam, religions like Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. wish to accomplish - restriction of passions for some greater goal.

Thus, society collapses.

Thoughts?


Suppose there are 10 people in the world.
Capitalism is the combining of labor using prices,
profits, and private property.

So capitalism says that the ten will develop
tools or services "for sale" that the ten can use.

How would all ten "using tools" be a bad thing?

Work, shelter, all benefits will come from the
combining of resources of the ten for the common
benefits for each. The combining of resources is capitalism.

If we assume personal partnership, then the ten will form
5 shelters or 5 economic households or profit centers.
All ten will likely contribute varios skills to build homes.

Capitalism is good. Functioning capitalist systems blend
in some government services focused on the common good.
Also approved by scripture.
 
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ArmyMatt

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yes, every system will eventually destroy itself. some might cope better in our fallen condition, but ultimately they are all of this world which will pass away.

and no, the Kingdom of God isn't like socialism at all.
 
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timewerx

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Work, shelter, all benefits will come from the
combining of resources of the ten for the common
benefits for each. The combining of resources is capitalism.

Sounds awesome in theory.

But if you need to make a bit of profit on top of all expenses, this is where it gets a bit more complicated
 
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Willie T

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I’ve kind of come to the conclusion of this political opinion, and I was wondering if anybody here could challenge this opinion, or if anybody would want to suggest a solution to these problems, especially in light of the growth of globalization.

For one, while Marx was wrong on many things, I don’t think he was wrong when it comes to how Capitalism would eventually fall. Marx posited that Capitalism would only produce innovation, which leads to more efficient means of production. I.e., the replacement of the worker with technology. This in turn reduces the demand and supply of skilled labor, and labor in general, while leading to a much more concrete divide between the workers and the employers, with the wages of workers going down as the rich get richer. This cycle inevitably leads to horrible living conditions and standards, which leads to a collapse of society through either functioning or mass revolts, which Capitalism can’t function in.

For two, another way I see it as self-destructive is the feeding into passions through the services, products, and marketing that Capitalism supplies. Many people seek to find out why our society is so broken - why families are so broken, why there is a collapse in religiosity; why divorce is so high, why adultrey is so high, why abortion is so high - why why why. I think that a massive part is Capitalism itself, which feeds into our passions. Why do we sex everywhere? Movies, commercials, billboards, etc. The internet, a product of Capitalist society, makes voyerism an act of booting up the computer and typing in an address. What about drug usage? Delicious and addictive foods like fast food and sodas and caffeine? The projection of perfect people, which forces teenagers and women especially to have psychologically ill perceptions of what it means to be skinny, what it means to be beautiful, what it means to be sexy. Superman’s dead by Our Lady Peace sums up this specific problem pretty well. The comforts of technology leads to laziness and the lack of discipline; who needs to even leave their room when they got the internet?

And these pleasures work because man is a fallen creature, prone to temptations that offer immediate gratification - at least, those who follow the broad path and not the narrow path. These products of passion induction only lead to pure Sodom and Gomorrah - a society of animals. Is the introduction of homosexuality as normative really that surprising, when immoral application of sexual gratification was introduced by our society as normal by Capitalism and it’s products? Why should homosexuality not be seen as good if adultrey is not seen as bad? And Capitalism only further cements the process by advertising “Pride month” everywhere, further feeding into our passions and earning more money. Why should I follow religion at all when it mandates audacious requirements that are so counter intuitive to our pleasure society? Why do you think so many churches - most noteably, Catholicism - have eased the ascetic requirements put on the lay people? Simple - to prevent apostasy and prevent the fishes from leaving the net, in light of our comfort society pushing hedonism, the opposite goal which religions like Christianity, religions like Islam, religions like Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. wish to accomplish - restriction of passions for some greater goal.

Thus, society collapses.

Thoughts?
You go back to the 1930's, and I'll stay here. This life is fantastic.
 
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SkyWriting

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Sounds awesome in theory.

But if you need to make a bit of profit on top of all expenses, this is where it gets a bit more complicated

Earths resources are vast.
Nobody uses their own bones to make tablewares. I can't imagine how you came up with an economic barrier at "profits". I see kids selling water for $1.00 per bottle on the street but at State Fair yesterday up to $3.50 each.
This was within sight of free water at a fair information booth.

large_9f7e5e5a-d5ea-43cf-a0c4-cd7b3f0a0876.JPG

Ice Mountain Natural Spring Water
$1.39
 
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ArmyMatt

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Definitely NOT in a political sense.

Still, everyone, gets compensated equally in the Kingdom of God, more or less - Parable of the workers in the Vineyard.

not exactly. there is more to it than that one parable.
 
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yes, every system will eventually destroy itself. some might cope better in our fallen condition, but ultimately they are all of this world which will pass away.

and no, the Kingdom of God isn't like socialism at all.
Of course not, it is a Kingdom.
 
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SingularityOne

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“Monarchy is superior to every other constitution and form of government. For polyarchy, where everyone competes on equal terms, is really anarchy and discord.” —Eusebius of Caesaria (4th Century)

“The three most ancient opinions about God are atheism (or anarchy), polytheism (or polyarchy), and monotheism (or monarchy). The children of Greece played with the first two; let us leave them to their games. For anarchy is disorder: and polyarchy implies factious division, and therefore anarchy and disorder. Both these lead in the same direction – to disorder; and disorder leads to disintegration; for disorder is the prelude to disintegration. What we honour is monarchy”—St. Gregory the Theologian (4th Century)

“Hell is a democracy. Heaven is a kingdom.”—St. John of Kronstadt
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I discovered that big corporations are the ones that show immorally through their devices.
As noted for over one thousand years, corporations have no heart, no conscience, no motive except one: greed. ('profit' ..... 'for the share holders' excuse often given...)
 
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eleos1954

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I’ve kind of come to the conclusion of this political opinion, and I was wondering if anybody here could challenge this opinion, or if anybody would want to suggest a solution to these problems, especially in light of the growth of globalization.

For one, while Marx was wrong on many things, I don’t think he was wrong when it comes to how Capitalism would eventually fall. Marx posited that Capitalism would only produce innovation, which leads to more efficient means of production. I.e., the replacement of the worker with technology. This in turn reduces the demand and supply of skilled labor, and labor in general, while leading to a much more concrete divide between the workers and the employers, with the wages of workers going down as the rich get richer. This cycle inevitably leads to horrible living conditions and standards, which leads to a collapse of society through either functioning or mass revolts, which Capitalism can’t function in.

For two, another way I see it as self-destructive is the feeding into passions through the services, products, and marketing that Capitalism supplies. Many people seek to find out why our society is so broken - why families are so broken, why there is a collapse in religiosity; why divorce is so high, why adultrey is so high, why abortion is so high - why why why. I think that a massive part is Capitalism itself, which feeds into our passions. Why do we sex everywhere? Movies, commercials, billboards, etc. The internet, a product of Capitalist society, makes voyerism an act of booting up the computer and typing in an address. What about drug usage? Delicious and addictive foods like fast food and sodas and caffeine? The projection of perfect people, which forces teenagers and women especially to have psychologically ill perceptions of what it means to be skinny, what it means to be beautiful, what it means to be sexy. Superman’s dead by Our Lady Peace sums up this specific problem pretty well. The comforts of technology leads to laziness and the lack of discipline; who needs to even leave their room when they got the internet?

And these pleasures work because man is a fallen creature, prone to temptations that offer immediate gratification - at least, those who follow the broad path and not the narrow path. These products of passion induction only lead to pure Sodom and Gomorrah - a society of animals. Is the introduction of homosexuality as normative really that surprising, when immoral application of sexual gratification was introduced by our society as normal by Capitalism and it’s products? Why should homosexuality not be seen as good if adultrey is not seen as bad? And Capitalism only further cements the process by advertising “Pride month” everywhere, further feeding into our passions and earning more money. Why should I follow religion at all when it mandates audacious requirements that are so counter intuitive to our pleasure society? Why do you think so many churches - most noteably, Catholicism - have eased the ascetic requirements put on the lay people? Simple - to prevent apostasy and prevent the fishes from leaving the net, in light of our comfort society pushing hedonism, the opposite goal which religions like Christianity, religions like Islam, religions like Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. wish to accomplish - restriction of passions for some greater goal.

Thus, society collapses.

Thoughts?

Mankind is corrupt. Any man run system put in place therefore is corrupt ... some worse than others.

1 Timothy 5:8

But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

A person can do that without participating in
hedonism.

Capitalism does provide a better platform for more freedom to excel ... the individual(s) motives can be good or not good. It's how one obtains, manages, regards and uses their earned resources and each has the personal responsibility and are accountable for that.
 
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TheLostCoin

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Suppose there are 10 people in the world.
Capitalism is the combining of labor using prices,
profits, and private property.

So capitalism says that the ten will develop
tools or services "for sale" that the ten can use.

How would all ten "using tools" be a bad thing?

The problem occurs when people don't have or cannot develop tools or services, and then can easily be taken advantage of by those who can develop tools or services. And as the time period from the Industrial Revolution to today has clearly illustrated, when people who do have those resources to develop tools or services, they will do what they can to make sure that they are the only ones who can develop tools or services, to make sure they have power.

Plus, what if the tools and services are harmful to one's body and soul - sex, drugs, unhealthy food, etc., and knowing they are, those who have the tools or services will do what they can to lie and mislead people about how unhealthy they are in order to sell those products and services?
 
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TheLostCoin

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You go back to the 1930's, and I'll stay here. This life is fantastic.
Pretty terrible argument. Considering that the Great Depression was a result - to some degree (regardless if you are an Austrian or a Keynesian) - of the Business Cycle, as was 2008, which means economic crashes are only inevitable in the future - it seems foolish to think that the 1930s won't happen again.
 
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I don't necessarily know if I have a solution - I don't think Marx's solution is anything close to good (as I don't believe economic systems can ultimately change selfish human nature), and I don't trust the government to be for our best interest, considering not only the amount of people in history that have utilized government for the stifling of dissent when actual problems occur and ignoring those problems (that's not to mention that such stifling includes mass murder e.g. the Stalinist purges), but even the absolute bureaucracy that becomes apparent in most societies today with executive agencies and government-provided services, in which very little gets accomplished due to a lack of incentive.

But still, I often times think that many of the problems in our society that we have are a direct result of our corporate economic system, and that it is self-destructive for only causing these problems and much more.

Ideally, what we would want is a balance with a government who can objectively see what is morally good for people to regulate these businesses when they become sociologically harmful to a great extent physically, mentally, or spiritually - but the problem is there that in our society, there is no moral authority to make decisions on what is actually good for people or not, nor is the government independent of businesses, in which businesses can have special interest politicians get elected due to excessive amounts of money, for the benefit of the business and not the benefit of the people. Plus, the problem here is that to what level is something "sociologically harmful" can be contestable - I mean, are fast-food chains sociologically harmful?
 
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