LDS LDS Jesus Could Have Lost His Godhood

He is the way · Aug 9, 2019

devin553344 said:
You took that out of context and is not referring to Jesus being capable of sinning. In these passages it also describes Jesus glorifying the Father, so he had glory already: John 17:1-5

17 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Yes that is correct. But not thru your own abilities, only thru the blood of Christ and the Holy Spirit of God.

Yes Jesus did glorify the Father, but He still needed the Father to glorify Him with the glory that He had with the Father before the world was, and He will share that glory with those who LOVE Him and keep the commandments:

(Old Testament | Exodus 20:6)

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

He is the way · Aug 9, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
Deuteronomy 4:35
Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.

Jesus Christ is the God of Israel:

(Old Testament | Exodus 6:7 - 8)

7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.
8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the LORD.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 45:21 - 22)

21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

devin553344 · Aug 9, 2019

He is the way said:
Yes Jesus did glorify the Father, but He still needed the Father to glorify Him with the glory that He had with the Father before the world was, and He will share that glory with those who LOVE Him and keep the commandments:

(Old Testament | Exodus 20:6)

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Jesus already told us what to expect after the resurrection. It's in the New Testament. So we know what to expect. But that's a little off topic for the OP. Matthew 22:30

"For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."

Peter1000 · Aug 9, 2019

devin553344 said:
Jesus already told us what to expect after the resurrection. It's in the New Testament. So we know what to expect. But that's a little off topic for the OP. Matthew 22:30

"For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."

Yes, you are right, in the resurrection there will not be any new marriages, but those that were married "in the Lord" before the resurrection will be married even after the resurrection, in fact they will be married for time and all eternity, as the NT says.

devin553344 · Aug 9, 2019

Peter1000 said:
Yes, you are right, in the resurrection there will not be any new marriages, but those that were married "in the Lord" before the resurrection will be married even after the resurrection, in fact they will be married for time and all eternity, as the NT says.

It doesn't say that in the bible. Did you get that idea from some other source?

Peter1000 · Aug 9, 2019

devin553344 said:
It doesn't say that in the bible. Did you get that idea from some other source?

Would you tell what you think the bible means when it says, "for in the resurrection"?

devin553344 · Aug 9, 2019

Peter1000 said:
Would you tell what you think the bible means when it says, "for in the resurrection"?

It's clearly referring to the era of being resurrected. Thus "in" the resurrection. Especially easy to understand when you refer to the entire context of the verses surrounding it. Since they were asking about the marriage of a woman after death.

He is the way · Aug 10, 2019

devin553344 said:
It's clearly referring to the era of being resurrected. Thus "in" the resurrection. Especially easy to understand when you refer to the entire context of the verses surrounding it. Since they were asking about the marriage of a woman after death.

(New Testament | Matthew 16:19)

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

devin553344 · Aug 10, 2019

He is the way said:
(New Testament | Matthew 16:19)

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

That verse leads to speculation of what Jesus was referring to regarding his disciples authority. But the truth is that they couldn't bind marriage since Jesus already stated his position regarding marriage in the resurrection. We must take the entire bible as true and correct to fully understand it's truths.

Did the disciples of Jesus mention anything regarding marriage in heaven? I assume that is what you are referring to. Again this is off topic for the OP. How does this relate to Jesus having the possibility of failure?

He is the way · Aug 10, 2019

devin553344 said:
That verse leads to speculation of what Jesus was referring to regarding his disciples authority. But the truth is that they couldn't bind marriage since Jesus already stated his position regarding marriage in the resurrection. We must take the entire bible as true and correct to fully understand it's truths.

Did the disciples of Jesus mention anything regarding marriage in heaven? I assume that is what you are referring to. Again this is off topic for the OP. How does this relate to Jesus having the possibility of failure?

It seems to me that most of the discussions get sidetracked after a while. Perhaps that is because the subject has already been dealt with. Still it is hard not to respond to erroneous statements made by others. So could Jesus have lost His battle against temptation? If not why would He be tempted so much? He had to learn:

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:8 - 9)

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

It all comes down to obedience and keeping the commandments!

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 13:4)

4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

devin553344 · Aug 10, 2019

He is the way said:
It seems to me that most of the discussions get sidetracked after a while. Perhaps that is because the subject has already been dealt with. Still it is hard not to respond to erroneous statements made by others. So could Jesus have lost His battle against temptation? If not why would He be tempted so much? He had to learn:

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:8 - 9)

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

It all comes down to obedience and keeping the commandments!

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 13:4)

4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

Yes there appears to be some conflict in understanding the statement here by Paul. The fact that a Lamb without blemish or defect needed to be made perfect?

1 Peter 1:19

"but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect."

But he never sinned so he was created perfect and never sinned and thus remained perfect and without blemish or defect. So what imperfection was Paul referring to? Or was he simply stating that he was proved to be perfect?

In other words, was Jesus the Christ ever "not perfect"? I assume perfect is referring to not sinning.

Peter1000 · Aug 10, 2019

devin553344 said:
It's clearly referring to the era of being resurrected. Thus "in" the resurrection. Especially easy to understand when you refer to the entire context of the verses surrounding it. Since they were asking about the marriage of a woman after death.

Thank you, so we are talking about the time period after the resurrection has taken place. I agree.

One more question: When the text says "they neither marry" What do you think that is saying?
And: is "they neither marry" different than the phrase "are given in marriage"?

devin553344 · Aug 10, 2019

Peter1000 said:
Thank you, so we are talking about the time period after the resurrection has taken place. I agree.

One more question: When the text says "they neither marry" What do you think that is saying?
And: is "they neither marry" different than the phrase "are given in marriage"?

If you're trying to sell me some teaching from a polygamous spiritual leader, as was Joseph Smith, you're not going to succeed. I don't believe polygamy is morally upright. And your really nit picking the word marry which could easily and most like does mean married.

The LDS teachings of "Celestial Marriage" appear to be polygamous and therefore immoral in my opinion:Celestial marriage - Wikipedia

He is the way · Aug 10, 2019

devin553344 said:
Yes there appears to be some conflict in understanding the statement here by Paul. The fact that a Lamb without blemish or defect needed to be made perfect?

1 Peter 1:19

"but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect."

But he never sinned so he was created perfect and never sinned and thus remained perfect and without blemish or defect. So what imperfection was Paul referring to? Or was he simply stating that he was proved to be perfect?

In other words, was Jesus the Christ ever "not perfect"? I assume perfect is referring to not sinning.

This is what Jesus said:

(New Testament | Luke 13:32)

32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

He also asked the Father to glorify Him:

(New Testament | John 17:5)

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

He is the way · Aug 10, 2019

devin553344 said:
If you're trying to sell me some teaching from a polygamous spiritual leader, as was Joseph Smith, you're not going to succeed. I don't believe polygamy is morally upright. And your really nit picking the word marry which could easily and most like does mean married.

Abraham was a polygamous spiritual leader.

devin553344 · Aug 10, 2019

He is the way said:
This is what Jesus said:

(New Testament | Luke 13:32)

32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

He also asked the Father to glorify Him:

(New Testament | John 17:5)

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Do you know what that "perfection" is referring to? Perhaps it is not referring to his ability to commit sin.

Like I said, he was without sin his entire life and therefore perfectly sinless, without blemish or defect. He was never imperfect in regard to sin.

Do we agree on that?

devin553344 · Aug 10, 2019

He is the way said:
Abraham was a polygamous spiritual leader.

He's not proclaiming marriage in heaven though. Potentially polygamous heavenly marriage.

He is the way · Aug 10, 2019

devin553344 said:
Do you know what that "perfection" is referring to? Perhaps it is not referring to his ability to commit sin.

Like I said, he was without sin his entire life and therefore perfectly sinless, without blemish or defect. He was never imperfect in regard to sin.

Do we agree on that?

Yes He was sinless, but He was not perfected.

devin553344 · Aug 10, 2019

He is the way said:
Yes He was sinless, but He was not perfected.

In what way do you believe he was imperfect?

He is the way · Aug 10, 2019

devin553344 said:
He's not proclaiming marriage in heaven though. Potentially polygamous heavenly marriage.

Marriages and bindings (sealings) are performed on the earth by one who has the keys. They are not performed in heaven.

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