GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday

ICONO'CLAST · Apr 15, 2019

ace of hearts said:
Please show that from the verse or any other place Paul means such a thing. I also have read Gal 4:21-31.

Sure, look here;
Gal2:
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Romans9;
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

rom4;
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

sparow · Apr 16, 2019

JLB777 said:
Of course my faith upholds the law, because I understand what Paul means.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish (uphold) the law.
Romans 3:27-31

The better rendering for the original word here is indeed uphold.

The word carries the idea of a set of scales and one side upholding the other in the scales of justice.

Both the law and faith have the same “weight of measure” that balances or upholds each other in the scales of justice (righteousness).

That same weight of measure is obedience.

Both the law of faith and the law of Moses require obedience

Do you understand what obey the Gospel means?

Repent

JLB

As I zero in and have something useful to say, I have spotted something; " Both the law of faith and the law of Moses require obedience". You have a different perception of the concepts.

Comparing the Law with faith is the same as comparing a giraffe with a mushroom. The Law is a manifestation of God; the Law in Hebrew speak is one of God's names; indeed in the ten commandments is contained the seal of God. Faith is different to trust only by way of grammatical application; one can not have faith in God without having faith everything that is God including His Law.

The Gospel that Jesus preached; "Repent, the Kingdom of God is near", leads to salvation, the gospel, "Jesus is a great bloke", will save no one.

JLB777 · Apr 16, 2019

sparow said:
Both the law of faith and the law of Moses require obedience".

Yes.

However, the law of Moses is obsolete and has been taken out of the way.

And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Colossians 2:13-14

Not the 10 Commandments but the law of Moses, for the commandments did not originate with Moses, as Abraham walking in obedience to His Voice, and obeyed His Commandments, His precepts and His laws, 430 years before the law was added.

And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:4-5

JLB

ace of hearts · Apr 16, 2019

ICONO'CLAST said:
Sure, look here;
Gal2:
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Romans9;
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

rom4;
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Nothing you posted above says we're only delivered from the penalty of the law.

What happened when the law was violated? Death occurred.

How according to what you posted above does one become righteous? Isn't it through faith? What does DR Luke say in chapter 1?

5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Isn't this righteousness by the law? I do find it interesting that the law can't grant salvation but can take it away by what you post. The law is only for the wicked. The law isn't for the righteous.

Please explain JN 13:34. What I want to know is how one can be in compliance with this and sin. Take a peak at LK 6:31 and use the same approach. Do you want someone to murder you? Explain how someone who will tell you what to do with religion and doesn't murder is following the law (famous 10).

ICONO'CLAST · Apr 16, 2019

ace of hearts said:
Nothing you posted above says we're only delivered from the penalty of the law.

What happened when the law was violated? Death occurred.

How according to what you posted above does one become righteous? Isn't it through faith? What does DR Luke say in chapter 1?

5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Isn't this righteousness by the law? I do find it interesting that the law can't grant salvation but can take it away by what you post. The law is only for the wicked. The law isn't for the righteous.

Please explain JN 13:34. What I want to know is how one can be in compliance with this and sin. Take a peak at LK 6:31 and use the same approach. Do you want someone to murder you? Explain how someone who will tell you what to do with religion and doesn't murder is following the law (famous 10).

The verses I offered were Clear..
Works of the law were not given to save.
They can only save if they are kept perfectly.
That is what Jesus did.

Dkh587 · Apr 16, 2019

JLB777 said:
Of course my faith upholds the law, because I understand what Paul means.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish (uphold) the law.
Romans 3:27-31

The better rendering for the original word here is indeed uphold.

The word carries the idea of a set of scales and one side upholding the other in the scales of justice.

Both the law and faith have the same “weight of measure” that balances or upholds each other in the scales of justice (righteousness).

That same weight of measure is obedience.

Both the law of faith and the law of Moses require obedience

Do you understand what obey the Gospel means?

JLB

If you teach disobedience to the law of God(which you do), you are not upholding/establishing the law of God with your faith.

I understand what it means to obey the gospel - but the gospel is not a lawless gospel, as you and others here promote.

Christ & the Apostles were not lawless and did not teach/promote lawlessness like you and many others are doing in here - Paul and the Apostles did not teach and spread a lawless gospel

Lawlessness and teaching disobedience to the law of God is of the antiChrist.

JLB777 · Apr 16, 2019

Dkh587 said:
If you teach disobedience to the law of God(which you do), you are not upholding/establishing the law of God with your faith.

I understand what it means to obey the gospel - but the gospel is not a lawless gospel, as you and others here promote.

Christ & the Apostles were not lawless and did not teach/promote lawlessness like you and many others are doing in here - Paul and the Apostles did not teach and spread a lawless gospel

Lawlessness and teaching disobedience to the law of God is of the antiChrist.

I do not teach disobedience to the law of God.

Please stop misrepresenting what I say.

I plainly said the Ten Commandments are not abolished.

The law of Moses has been nailed to the cross, and taken out of the way, having been abolished in His flesh.

The law of Moses was always temporary and was designed to point us to Christ.

The Commandments of God are eternal and are for each born again Christ to obey.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

Again, here are the scriptures to back up what I’m teaching.

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
Ephesians 2:14-16

having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances

And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Colossians 2:13-14

having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

If you believe the law of Moses is still in operation today, then you better move to Jerusalem and start sacrificing animals like the rest of the unbelieving Jews.

Please stop making up lies about what I post.

JLB

ace of hearts · Apr 17, 2019

ICONO'CLAST said:
The verses I offered were Clear..
Works of the law were not given to save.
They can only save if they are kept perfectly.
That is what Jesus did.

Can you be saved without keeping the law? If so why bother?

ace of hearts · Apr 17, 2019

Dkh587 said:
If you teach disobedience to the law of God(which you do), you are not upholding/establishing the law of God with your faith.

I understand what it means to obey the gospel - but the gospel is not a lawless gospel, as you and others here promote.

Christ & the Apostles were not lawless and did not teach/promote lawlessness like you and many others are doing in here - Paul and the Apostles did not teach and spread a lawless gospel

Lawlessness and teaching disobedience to the law of God is of the antiChrist.

He doesn't teach disobedience to the law because Christians aren't obligated to the law. Christians aren't lawless and wicked as you claim. Evidence of this is JN 13:34. No one can murder and submit to this commandment of Jesus Christ the Righteous.

Since you claim Paul and the Apostles didn't preach a lawless Gospel, how do you deal with passages such as - LK 6:31, 16:16; JN 1:17, 15:10; Rom 7:6; Gal 4:21-31,chapter 5; 1 Tim 1:9?

How is it you claim we're anti-Christ when even Jesus didn't promote the law?

Dkh587 · Apr 17, 2019

JLB777 said:
I do not teach disobedience to the law of God.

Please stop misrepresenting what I say.

I plainly said the Ten Commandments are not abolished.

The law of Moses has been nailed to the cross, and taken out of the way, having been abolished in His flesh.

The law of Moses was always temporary and was designed to point us to Christ.

The Commandments of God are eternal and are for each born again Christ to obey.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

Again, here are the scriptures to back up what I’m teaching.

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
Ephesians 2:14-16

having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances

And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Colossians 2:13-14

having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

If you believe the law of Moses is still in operation today, then you better move to Jerusalem and start sacrificing animals like the rest of the unbelieving Jews.

Please stop making up lies about what I post.

JLB

The commandments of Moses = the commandments of God. Anybody teaching disobedience to Moses is teaching disobedience to God. You and others teach disobedience to Moses, therefore, you teach disobedience to God.

Teaching disobedience to Moses is worthy of death, and anybody teaching disobedience to Moses is a false prophet, according to God.

Christ & the Apostles did not teach disobedience to Moses. For them to teach disobedience to God would make them false and disqualify them as being sent from God.

You and others teach lawlessness, which is disobedience to the law of God/Moses. It’s not a lie - you openly teach it.

ace of hearts · Apr 17, 2019

Dkh587 said:
The commandments of Moses = the commandments of God. Anybody teaching disobedience to Moses is teaching disobedience to God. You and others teach disobedience to Moses, therefore, you teach disobedience to God.

Not so because that covenant has been rescinded and replaced as promised by Jeremiah and testified to by Jesus as a new covenant is currently active. Also no gentiles were ever required to keep any of its laws unless they were sojourning in Israel.

Besides that if one is in compliance with JN 13:34 there's no difference except the 4th commandment which isn't required in the new covenant. So you can't get us for not teaching good morals. No one here teaches others to murder, commit adultery, hate/disobey parents, lie or steal.

On the other hand you teach by practice taking advantage of another's sin. Where is the Scripture justifying such behavior? You can't buy goods and services even on account on the sabbath without sinning. Your beast of burden is required to be idle on the sabbath.

1 Tim 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

Teaching disobedience to Moses is worthy of death, and anybody teaching disobedience to Moses is a false prophet, according to God.

See above quote.

Christ & the Apostles did not teach disobedience to Moses. For them to teach disobedience to God would make them false and disqualify them as being sent from God.

They taught righteous behavior. They didn't teach nor require the law for Christians. Acts 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

You and others teach lawlessness, which is disobedience to the law of God/Moses. It’s not a lie - you openly teach it.

Sorry but it's a lie that we teach others to murder, steal, lie, hate/disobey parents or commit adultery. You can't quote anyone but pro law people projecting this on others with one exception. Since you openly say I'm lying quote the post(s).

FEZZILLA · May 25, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
The Mainstream Preachers claimed to be God's people, they read God's Words, yet they "Transgressed the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and traditions." (Matthew 15:3-9)

"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

LoveGodsWord said:
So fast forward to today. We have a Mainstream Christian teaching that "Transgresses the Commandments of God by their own traditions and doctrines."

That leaves the SDA church as a fringe movement. Mainstream Christianity are your basic denominations...most of them come from the Puritans, yet most are still more orthodox than SDA.

LoveGodsWord said:
It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to transgress God's Sabbath Commandment and replace it with the Catholic Sabbath (Sunday worship). It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to create images of God in the likeness of some long haired men's shampoo model, transgressing the first and greatest commandment.
It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to transgress God's Food Laws, and create their own definition of clean and unclean.

So Jesus was saying not to listen to His disciples?

LoveGodsWord said:
I believe what Peter taught, that the Holy Spirit (Spirit of Truth) is given to those who do not "Transgress the Commandments of God by their own religious doctrines and traditions.

What is tradition to you?

Matthew ten Verseight · Aug 5, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
PART 1/2

THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN - GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN

The very same topics that we discuss here was also discussed in the day of Jesus. The mainstream preachers of Christ's time all claimed to be Children of God because their claim was that they were the Children of Abraham right? This was their claim to being God's people.

JOHN 8:33-45

33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say thou, Ye shall be made free?

They claimed belief on the God of Abraham, they claimed to be in bondage to no man. But what did Jesus tell them...............?

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin.

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

There is more on this engagement between Jesus and the Mainstream God of Abraham preachers of His time in John 8.

Certainly the Pharisees studied the bible as it existed then. AS did Jesus.

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Yet these two factions, Jesus and the Mainstream preachers of His time had almost opposite understandings of the Bible.

It is fair to say not all Jews of that time had the same understanding as the Mainstream Preachers.

Luke 1:5-6 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

So there seems to be a trend here.

The Mainstream Preachers claimed to be God's people, they read God's Words, yet they "Transgressed the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and traditions." (Matthew 15:3-9)

Yet there is no indication that Zacharias or Jesus did this and followed them.

So we have one example of understanding that was gained by study in obedience to the instructions in God's Word, ( Zacharias and Jesus)

And another example of study in disobedience to the instructions of God's Word. (Mainstream preachers of that time)

There were more than just Zacharias.

Matthew 2:1-2 1, Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

Here is another example of people who had a completely different understanding than the Mainstream preachers of that time. Is it wrong to assume that they, like Zacharias, also studied in obedience to the instruction?

And Peter, which side of this topic did he fall on?

Acts 5:32-33 33, And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

Now why was it that the Jews sought to persecute Jesus and the prophets? It was because they refused to obey the instruction of God, and created their own instructions, and the other example did not.

So fast forward to today. We have a Mainstream Christian teaching that "Transgresses the Commandments of God by their own traditions and doctrines."

This is not a judgment, rather, a simple fact.

It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to transgress God's Sabbath Commandment and replace it with the Catholic Sabbath (Sunday worship). It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to create images of God in the likeness of some long haired men's shampoo model, transgressing the first and greatest commandment.
It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to transgress God's Food Laws, and create their own definition of clean and unclean.

So it seems that even today, if a person studies in obedience to God's simple instructions he see's the scripture one way.

If a person studies scripture in disobedience following the traditions and teachings of man in place of God's Word and to God's simple instructions, he sees the scripture in another way.

I believe what Peter taught, that the Holy Spirit (Spirit of Truth) is given to those who do not "Transgress the Commandments of God by their own religious doctrines and traditions.

But I also know from Peter and Jesus that this belief will infuriate "many" who come in Christ's/God's name.

23 "When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them."

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endures to the end shall be saved."

My hope is that you might consider these words and understand.

John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (Is it evil or righteous to transgress the commandments of God by doctrines and traditions of men?)

20 For every one that doeth evil (Transgress God's Commandments by their own Traditions) hates the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Is this why the Mainstream preachers of Peters time set about to kill or silence Peter, so he wouldn't expose their transgression of God's Commandments?

21 But he that does truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest,.(let your light shine) that they are wrought in God.

So a circle complete once again. Those who live a doctrine created (wrought) by God have a different understanding than those who live a doctrine created by man who follow the traditions of man. The above was shared with me recently by a friend. I hope it was a blessing to you as it was for me.

Now the important question is who should we obey God or man...............?

The Jews (Pharisees/Lawyers) had placed so many restrictions on the Sabbath commandment through there man made traditions that it had become a burden to the people and was nearly impossible to keep (Luke 13:14; John 5:10-18; 9:16; etc.).

This was never how the Sabbath was to be kept. What did Jesus teach us about the Sabbath? Let's look to the Word of God.....

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

God’s Law in the NC is written on our hearts it is through love and it is love that fulfills God’s Law in us as we walk not after the flesh but after the spirit and is why Jesus says f you love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15; John 15:10). If we knowingly and willfully break one of God’s commandments we commit sin (1 John 3:4). This includes the 7th Day Sabbath which Jesus made for us and commands us to keep as a holy day.

God gives us the other six days to labor and work and do whatever we like. We worship God everyday but the 7th Day God says is a Holy day that God has made for His people. Jesus is the maker of this day. It is the "Lords Day" and God has commanded us to keep it Holy (Mark 2:27-28; Exodus 20:8-11). The Sabbath is a sign that we worship the only true God of creation (Ezekiel 20:12). We follow Jesus because we love him (John 14:15;15:10). Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us as we walk by faith in His Spirit.

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PART 2/2 GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN LINKED CLICK ME

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NOTE: PLEASE NO FLAMING OR GOADING; THIS IS A DISCUSSION THREAD ONLY FOR
SHARING GOD'S WORD IN LOVE; FRIENDLY DISCUSSION PLEASE!
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Thanks also to a friend (Studyman) from CC for the inspiration and contribution to this OP. May God bless you as you all as you seek him through His Word.

Yes, all those of the children of faith of Abraham will do even as he did, and keep the sabbath and God's commandments, Gen. 26:5, which he taught his children, Gen. 18:19.

Bob S · Aug 5, 2019

Matthew ten Verseight said:
Yes, all those of the children of faith of Abraham will do even as he did, and keep the sabbath and God's commandments, Gen. 26:5, which he taught his children, Gen. 18:19.

Gen26:5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. Gen 18:19 For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just, so that the Lord will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.’

I would like to know how you could possibly extract the possibility that Abraham kept the Sabbath of the Sinai covenant out of the verses you quoted.

ralliann · Aug 5, 2019

JLB777 said:
Yes.

However, the law of Moses is obsolete and has been taken out of the way.

And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Colossians 2:13-14

Not the 10 Commandments but the law of Moses, for the commandments did not originate with Moses, as Abraham walking in obedience to His Voice, and obeyed His Commandments, His precepts and His laws, 430 years before the law was added.

And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:4-5
JLB

Yep, the mosaic law was added 430 years later.
Abraham kept the law of faith, as did Noah etc. Which law is not abolished by the covenant made with Israel, nor was the covenant made with Israel an addition, nor was there anything subtracted from the former covenant.

Ga 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. {covenant: or, testament }.

Ga 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Heb 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: {confirmed … : Gr. interposed himself by }

God confirmed all to Abraham with an oath
Genesis 22:16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; {shore: Heb. lip }
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

God swearing an oath = He will not repent from all he had spoken.

Ps 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec {without … : or, without swearing of an oath }

If everything God ever said were sure as a promise, there would be no need to swear an oath....God can repent apart from an oath....

Matthew ten Verseight · Aug 6, 2019

Bob S said:
Gen26:5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. Gen 18:19 For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just, so that the Lord will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.’

I would like to know how you could possibly extract the possibility that Abraham kept the Sabbath of the Sinai covenant out of the verses you quoted.

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

If you might quote the appropriate verses cited, it may help you.

JLB777 · Aug 6, 2019

ralliann said:
Yep, the mosaic law was added 430 years later.
Abraham kept the law of faith, as did Noah etc. Which law is not abolished by the covenant made with Israel, nor was the covenant made with Israel an addition, nor was there anything subtracted from the former covenant.

Ga 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. {covenant: or, testament }.

Ga 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Amen.

Good word.

Matthew ten Verseight · Aug 7, 2019

FEZZILLA said:
That leaves the SDA church as a fringe movement

Hey, if the best response to the scriptures and evidence provided is, 'Hey you guys are a 'fringe' (Num. 15:38) group, a 'sect' (Acts 24:5),' well then, so be it.

sparow · Aug 7, 2019

Matthew ten Verseight said:
Hey, if the best response to the scriptures and evidence provided is, 'Hey you guys are a 'fringe' (Num. 15:38) group, a 'sect' (Acts 24:5),' well then, so be it.

On the fringe of what? My guess is they haven't separated them selves far enough.

Bob S · Aug 7, 2019

Matthew ten Verseight said:
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

If you might quote the appropriate verses cited, it may help you.

Fifty percent isn't that bad now, is it? :oldthumbsup:

Deut 5:1 Hear, Israel, the decrees and the laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.

It would seem like Moses and you have some differences as to when the command to observe Sabbath came to be. I know SDAs like to assume that Abraham was a payor of tithes on his income, but that is not what scripture tells us. You would like to assume there is a 10 in front of commandments in the New Testament, but that is not what scripture tells us. You would like to deny verses like 2Cor3:7-11 and Eph 2:15. Gal 3 blows Adventism out of the water. All kinds of excuses are made concerning Col 2. It appears to be either the Bible or, not and, Mrs. White. I had to make that decision. I am so glad I chose the Bible.

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