Believers need to understand the Truth

BCsenior · Jul 15, 2019

Heads up! … Pastors have several different reasons for
NOT telling the sheep what they desperately need to hear.

The NT words “belief” and “faith” are very inadequate!

Because of what the whole of the NT teaches,
it is obvious that one word is completely insufficient
to describe what “belief” and “faith” really mean!
The NT clearly teaches us that simply believing and
having faith is NOT nearly enough to attain salvation.

We know that a mere intellectual belief in Jesus and
the gospel will NOT save anyone … but also, is merely
a deep heart-felt belief really enough to save anyone?

Initially

When believers first receive the Holy Spirit through
God’s free gift of mercy/grace, they receive everything:
reconciliation, justification, righteousness, (positional)
sanctification, holiness, salvation … everything!

But, after initially being born-again

Our free-will co-operation with the Holy Spirit is critically
important during our (continuing) sanctification … as He
tries to sanctify us unto holiness, “for without holiness
no one will see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14).

We read in the NT that believers are tested to prove
their faith is genuine. Our initial salvation is a free gift,
but we see a lot of warnings in the NT that IF our righteous
standing (i.e. salvation) is NOT maintained, it can be lost.

So, let’s not focus on our initial receiving of salvation;
instead let’s focus on the end of our salvation process!

JUSTIFICATION is about taking Jesus as SAVIOR.
SANCTIFICATION is about making Jesus LORD.
Have you been told that BOTH are required for salvation?

If Jesus is our SAVIOR, then we need to treat Him as our LORD!
Paul and Peter both called Him several times, “Savior and LORD”.
If Jesus is LORD, then we need to love and obey Him.
Indeed, He said 4 times: “Those who love Me will
obey My commandments.” (John 14:15,21,23,24).
And, “Those who are My friends will
obey My commandments.” (John 15:14).
Does anyone get to heaven who does NOT love Jesus,
who is NOT His friend, and who does NOT obey His commands?

Many Scriptures are very clear … obedience is NOT an option!

Pastors are responsible for WARNING the sheep about sin!
They need to teach us, for example:
● “God has called us to live holy lives, not impure lives.
Therefore, anyone who refuses to live by these rules …
is rejecting God” (1 Thessalonians 4:7-8)
● “It would be better if they had never known the way
to righteousness than to know it, and then reject
the command to live a holy life” (2 Peter 2:21)

Many NT verses teach each of the following spiritual truths
Believers prove true saving belief through obedience
Believers stay righteous by practicing righteousness
Believers keep salvation by repenting of their sins
Believers faith must endure to the end of their lives
Believers were chosen and called to live holy lives
Believers must come through as victorious overcomers

Kris Jordan · Jul 15, 2019

Hi BCSenior,

You are biblically incorrect with what you are stating. Our salvation, sanctification, justification, etc., is all a gift by God's grace that we receive through faith. We don't work for it, earn it, deserve it or anything of the sort. We simply believe Jesus that He died for our sins on the cross and took our punishment upon Himself in our place.

What results from genuine saving faith is a life of obedience and one where Jesus continually works within us to conform us into His image, etc.

With that being said, there is great debate about whether one can "lose their salvation" or not, however that is never based on works or lack thereof. If there is a real potential for one to lose their salvation, then it would have to be based upon a person ceasing to believe, since it takes faith/belief in the first place to get saved in the first place.

Here is an article I've written on the subject if you're interested:

Salvation: Secure or Not
Historically, there has been great debate among Christians as to whether a believer is secure in their salvation after having received it, or whether their salvation can be lost or forfeited due to sin or the renouncing of one’s faith. Although there are opposing viewpoints on the topic, each with compelling arguments and strong scriptural support, the answer to the question really hinges upon these factors: how salvation is imparted, upon what basis it must be received, and what element must be present for it to be sustained.

Salvation is a free gift of God that is imputed to (and received by) an individual on the basis of faith alone in the redemptive work of Jesus Christ upon the cross. God never forces salvation upon anyone, but neither is it imputed automatically to someone without their personal repentance and faith in Christ. Therefore, salvation is a choice, both on the part of God, and of sinful man.

From the very beginning, God chose to save sinners because of His great love for them. Because God is “not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9b), and because He “desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Timothy 2:3-4), He has accomplished and provided everything that is necessary for their salvation in every aspect, including revealing Himself through creation and conscience, drawing each person to Himself by the Holy Spirit, sending His own Son to pay their sin penalty so they could be forgiven and saved, and providing even the faith necessary for them to believe. God is always ready to impart His saving grace to those who would come to Him in genuine, sincere faith. However, man must also take part in the equation because he has been given free will. He can only receive God’s gift of grace by choosing to turn away from his life of sin (Matthew 16:24) and personally placing his faith in Jesus for forgiveness and redemption (John 3:16). That final step on the part of sinners is, in essence, what completes the salvation transaction. Aside from grace through faith, salvation cannot be obtained through any other means; nor is there any other Savior but Jesus Christ Himself (Acts 4:12).

Because it is impossible for any of us to see into the heart of a person in order to know whether or not they actually possess genuine saving faith, the basic point of debate on this topic really boils down to this: could a person who claimed to be a believer and who exhibited good works over a long period of time ever have possessed genuine saving faith, if they ultimately ended up renouncing their faith later on?

Supporters of the “eternally secure” position argue that such a person never possessed saving faith, but simply offered lip service and modified their external behavior accordingly. They believe that genuine salvation cannot be altered or undone once it is received, since God is the one who keeps a person’s faith intact. Furthermore, they conclude that any verses in Scripture which appear to support the idea that genuine salvation can be abandoned actually refer to people who never “actually” possessed saving faith to begin with.

Supporters of the “not eternally secure” position argue that such a person could possess genuine saving faith at one point (as evidenced by good works, among other proofs) but then willfully choose to reject or deny Jesus later on, forfeiting their salvation. They also argue that all verses supporting “eternal security” are referring to Christians who continue believing and never stop.

Supporters of both views seem to agree on the issue of sin itself within the lives of those who profess to be believers. Both positions assert that when a professing believer sins or even struggles with a particular sin, they do not “lose” their salvation but have merely broken fellowship with God and need to confess their sins to Him in order to have that intimate fellowship restored. On the other hand, if a professing believer habitually and continually practices sin, treating the grace of God as a license to do so, they likely do not possess genuine, saving faith.

Regardless of which position one leans toward when it comes to the security of the believer, the fact remains that personal faith in Christ is a mandatory prerequisite for sinners to receive God’s salvation, and it remains the mode by which God’s salvation is retained or sustained. Whether or not one’s personal faith can ever truly be altered, rescinded or renounced by a genuine believer is really the “uncertainty factor” in the whole equation; and because we do not have viewing-access to the Book of Life, or a current glimpse into heaven or Hades to see who is actually there, we will never know the answer to this uncertainty factor on this side of eternity.

Because every Scripture must always be interpreted in light of all other Scripture, and because there are many verses which can be used to support each of the viewpoints, this section will simply list some of the Scriptures that seem to be in favor of each position. It will then be up to each individual believer, together with the leading of the Holy Spirit and the reconciliation of all related Scriptures, to draw their own conclusion.

(Scriptures Available Upon Request for the sake of length on this forum)

Pepper77 · Jul 15, 2019

BCsenior said:
Heads up! … Pastors have several different reasons for
NOT telling the sheep what they desperately need to hear.

The NT words “belief” and “faith” are very inadequate!

Because of what the whole of the NT teaches,
it is obvious that one word is completely insufficient
to describe what “belief” and “faith” really mean!
The NT clearly teaches us that simply believing and
having faith is NOT nearly enough to attain salvation.

We know that a mere intellectual belief in Jesus and
the gospel will NOT save anyone … but also, is merely
a deep heart-felt belief really enough to save anyone?

Initially

When believers first receive the Holy Spirit through
God’s free gift of mercy/grace, they receive everything:
reconciliation, justification, righteousness, (positional)
sanctification, holiness, salvation … everything!

But, after initially being born-again

Our free-will co-operation with the Holy Spirit is critically
important during our (continuing) sanctification … as He
tries to sanctify us unto holiness, “for without holiness
no one will see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14).

We read in the NT that believers are tested to prove
their faith is genuine. Our initial salvation is a free gift,
but we see a lot of warnings in the NT that IF our righteous
standing (i.e. salvation) is NOT maintained, it can be lost.

So, let’s not focus on our initial receiving of salvation;
instead let’s focus on the end of our salvation process!

JUSTIFICATION is about taking Jesus as SAVIOR.
SANCTIFICATION is about making Jesus LORD.
Have you been told that BOTH are required for salvation?

If Jesus is our SAVIOR, then we need to treat Him as our LORD!
Paul and Peter both called Him several times, “Savior and LORD”.
If Jesus is LORD, then we need to love and obey Him.
Indeed, He said 4 times: “Those who love Me will
obey My commandments.” (John 14:15,21,23,24).
And, “Those who are My friends will
obey My commandments.” (John 15:14).
Does anyone get to heaven who does NOT love Jesus,
who is NOT His friend, and who does NOT obey His commands?

Many Scriptures are very clear … obedience is NOT an option!

Pastors are responsible for WARNING the sheep about sin!
They need to teach us, for example:
● “God has called us to live holy lives, not impure lives.
Therefore, anyone who refuses to live by these rules …
is rejecting God” (1 Thessalonians 4:7-8)
● “It would be better if they had never known the way
to righteousness than to know it, and then reject
the command to live a holy life” (2 Peter 2:21)

Many NT verses teach each of the following spiritual truths
Believers prove true saving belief through obedience
Believers stay righteous by practicing righteousness
Believers keep salvation by repenting of their sins
Believers faith must endure to the end of their lives
Believers were chosen and called to live holy lives
Believers must come through as victorious overcomers

Those who are truly born of the Spirit become obedient from the heart through their union with Christ... Romans 6:17. When a person receives Christ as Savior they receive him as Lord as well because He is Lord. He cannot be separated, He is both. We don’t make Him that, He is Lord. We are a new creation, joined to Him, placed in Him. When that actually happens is different for different people. But it is by grace through faith, and a gift .... not of works but by the finished complete work of Christ. Eph 2:8-10

anna ~ grace · Jul 15, 2019

Deo Gratias, brother! Thank you for continuing to post! May your posts encourage more of our Christian brothers and sisters to deeply, deeply consider what Scripture says, and what is needed for our salvation. It's an eternity issue.

God be with you, and don't give up!

BCsenior · Jul 15, 2019

Kris Jordan said:
Hi BCSenior,
You are biblically incorrect with what you are stating.

What results from genuine saving faith is a life of obedience and one where Jesus continually works within us to conform us into His image, etc.

Yes, thank you ... I will prayerfully study what you have written.
Probably, it does come down to who has genuine saving faith.
I have been called to WARN people who think they are going to heaven.
Many have been deceived who do NOT have this genuine saving faith.
Spirit-filled believers on the Internet have been warning for a few years
now that the church is FAST ASLEEP.
IMO, they are believing in grace-only, hyper-grace, easy-believism, etc.
which basically is OSAS and eternal security.
Please note that even though Paul wrote Ephesians and Colossians
to "the faithful" and not to the unfaithful, he still warned them
of the dangers of habitual sin, etc.

topher694 · Jul 15, 2019

Wow, someone should do something about these evil, deceiving, manipulative pastors! Good thing we all have you!

BCsenior · Jul 15, 2019

Gracia Singh said:
Deo Gratias, brother! Thank you for continuing to post! May your posts encourage more of our Christian brothers and sisters to deeply, deeply consider what Scripture says, and what is needed for our salvation. It's an eternity issue.
God be with you, and don't give up!

Yes, my dear sister, it is so wonderful to hear from you again!

IMO, with most believers today ...
they choose to believe what they hear at church
and/or
they choose to believe what they prefer to believe
instead of
what they might happen to come across in the NT.

Satan is the greatest liar and deceiver in the history of the world
and he and his demons wish all of us believers to spend eternity
with them in hell (and then later, in the Lake of Fire).

BCsenior · Jul 15, 2019

Pepper77 said:
Those who are truly born of the Spirit become obedient from the heart
through their union with Christ...

Yes indeed, so the question is:
WHO is truly born of the Spirit, and WHO is not?

I guess I'm here to WARN those who are not.
And the WARNINGS are all in the NT.

eleos1954 · Jul 15, 2019

BCsenior said:
Heads up! … Pastors have several different reasons for
NOT telling the sheep what they desperately need to hear.

The NT words “belief” and “faith” are very inadequate!

Because of what the whole of the NT teaches,
it is obvious that one word is completely insufficient
to describe what “belief” and “faith” really mean!
The NT clearly teaches us that simply believing and
having faith is NOT nearly enough to attain salvation.

We know that a mere intellectual belief in Jesus and
the gospel will NOT save anyone … but also, is merely
a deep heart-felt belief really enough to save anyone?

Initially

When believers first receive the Holy Spirit through
God’s free gift of mercy/grace, they receive everything:
reconciliation, justification, righteousness, (positional)
sanctification, holiness, salvation … everything!

But, after initially being born-again

Our free-will co-operation with the Holy Spirit is critically
important during our (continuing) sanctification … as He
tries to sanctify us unto holiness, “for without holiness
no one will see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14).

We read in the NT that believers are tested to prove
their faith is genuine. Our initial salvation is a free gift,
but we see a lot of warnings in the NT that IF our righteous
standing (i.e. salvation) is NOT maintained, it can be lost.

So, let’s not focus on our initial receiving of salvation;
instead let’s focus on the end of our salvation process!

JUSTIFICATION is about taking Jesus as SAVIOR.
SANCTIFICATION is about making Jesus LORD.
Have you been told that BOTH are required for salvation?

If Jesus is our SAVIOR, then we need to treat Him as our LORD!
Paul and Peter both called Him several times, “Savior and LORD”.
If Jesus is LORD, then we need to love and obey Him.
Indeed, He said 4 times: “Those who love Me will
obey My commandments.” (John 14:15,21,23,24).
And, “Those who are My friends will
obey My commandments.” (John 15:14).
Does anyone get to heaven who does NOT love Jesus,
who is NOT His friend, and who does NOT obey His commands?

Many Scriptures are very clear … obedience is NOT an option!

Pastors are responsible for WARNING the sheep about sin!
They need to teach us, for example:
● “God has called us to live holy lives, not impure lives.
Therefore, anyone who refuses to live by these rules …
is rejecting God” (1 Thessalonians 4:7-8)
● “It would be better if they had never known the way
to righteousness than to know it, and then reject
the command to live a holy life” (2 Peter 2:21)

Many NT verses teach each of the following spiritual truths
Believers prove true saving belief through obedience
Believers stay righteous by practicing righteousness
Believers keep salvation by repenting of their sins
Believers faith must endure to the end of their lives
Believers were chosen and called to live holy lives
Believers must come through as victorious overcomers

Salvation is: Justification + Sanctification = Glorification

God’s plan for our salvation has three parts in this order: Justification, Sanctification, and Glorification.

Part 1 - Justification:

Each one of us have broken God’s Law. This is sin. The wages of sin is (eternal) death (cease to exist forever). This price is more than we can ever repay–it is impossible. Because of God the father’s unconditional love for the us, he gave his only begotten Son Jesus to pay for our debt of eternal death on the cross. This one time event was done by Jesus. Only Jesus is worthy to pay the price for each one of us because he never sinned. He has not broken God’s Law. Jesus (in the form of a man) died a physical death, giving His life willingly and was raised back to life; thus conquering eternal death.

Part 2 - Sanctification:

Is the reciprocation of our love toward God. We are sanctified with the help of the Holy Spirit (Comforter) that Jesus gives us. Sanctification means to set a part or to make holy. His Holy Spirit helps us in this process to become more like Christ. This is not a one time event; it’s a life long process (we stumble here and there). The process of sanctifying and purifying us (the works that Jesus does in the believer, and is not of ourselves) ... it is HIM working in us and through us. We are separated from the world. We are in the physical world but not of the world spiritually. Our mind (thinking) changes over time and therefore our actions also change. Our faith increases more and more as He faithfully works in us. Hebrews 12:2

Part 3 - Glorification:

We won’t be glorified until after Jesus returns. John writes of this in his first letter when he states that “when he shall appear we shall be like him (1 John 3:2). Paul refers to this stage frequently. For example: “For this corruptible must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality (1 Corinthians 15:53). He also refers to a time when “we shall all be changed in a moment in in a twinkling of an eye at the last trump” (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). Paul speaks further of the doctrine of glorification when he says in Romans 8:18, “For the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” We receive glorified spiritual bodies. Receiving eternal life and being with Him forevermore.

Those saved (justification + sanctification) will be glorified when Christ returns at the first resurrection.

redleghunter · Jul 15, 2019

Let us never assume that if we live good lives we will be without sin; our lives should be praised only when we continue to beg for pardon. But men are hopeless creatures, and the less they concentrate on their own sins, the more interested they become in the sins of others. They seek to criticize, not to correct. Unable to excuse themselves, they are ready to accuse others.——St Augustine

Pepper77 · Jul 15, 2019

BCsenior said:
Yes indeed, so the question is:
WHO is truly born of the Spirit, and WHO is not?

I guess I'm here to WARN those who are not.
And the WARNINGS are all in the NT.

But we are born of the Spirit by trusting in Christ for our salvation. True faith in someone’s life will have evidence and they will continue. A believer changes from being in Adam, unrighteous, dead in your sins to being in Christ, holy and righteous, secure and seated in the heavenly’s spiritually. Once born of the Spirit you cannot be unborn. But many can make a profession of faith and there be no Genuine conversion. But it is God’s work through the finished work of the cross. Our work is to believe and trust. And that is the way we continue our Christian life....believe in what God says and who he says he has made us, and trust in God to continue to do the work in us and he does. And he never loses one of His.

com7fy8 · Jul 15, 2019

BCsenior said:
The NT clearly teaches us that simply believing and
having faith is NOT nearly enough to attain salvation.

Our Apostle Paul says, "we who first trusted in Christ", in Ephesians 1:12. From this I see how believing means trusting and trusting includes obeying the One we trust.

And God's word guarantees >

"'So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
. It shall not return to Me void,
. But it shall accomplish what I please,
. And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.'"
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .(Isaiah 55:11)

To me, this unconditionally guarantees how God's word in us His children will accomplish all which God Himself means by every bite of His word.

So, if His word brings a person to salvation, now His word will finish the job. So, if we can believe God is sure to get us to Heaven, then we can expect Him in us to do all which His word means to Him > every promise, every commandment the way He is able to have us doing it, every teaching, every prophecy.

And this includes how He corrects us > Hebrews 12:4-14 < this shows how God's correction succeeds in His children. This is how God succeeds, not how we try. He is easily able to do in us all He means by His word. And Isaiah 55:11, I understand, means He will so succeed in us. So, I would not stop at believing He will get us to Heaven. But trust God in us to do all He means by every part of His word.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 15, 2019

Kris Jordan said:
Hi BCSenior,

You are biblically incorrect with what you are stating. Our salvation, sanctification, justification, etc., is all a gift by God's grace that we receive through faith. We don't work for it, earn it, deserve it or anything of the sort. We simply believe Jesus that He died for our sins on the cross and took our punishment upon Himself in our place.

Jesus is the gift (John 3:16), but gifts are received and not forced upon people. Jesus is the source of eternal life (John 14:6). So we have to abide in Christ in order to have life (1 John 5:12).

Believers are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace (i.e. Jesus Christ). It is why a person who comes to Jesus for the first time can have an assurance of salvation (Without doing any kind of work). Initial and ultimate salvation is a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8-9). We are not ultimately saved by works of righteousness we have done alone without God's mercy (Titus 3:5). For even if a believer were to stumble into sin, do they get clean by doing another work? No. They get clean by confessing their sins to Jesus (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9) and they ask Jesus to help them to overcome their sin (or to forsake it) (Matthew 26:41) (Romans 13:14) (John 15:5). But make no mistake, Scripture is also abundantly clear in that it teaches we are saved by "works of faith" after we are saved by God's grace, too. Simply click on the following spoiler button to check out the verses.

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:

(Here are a List of Verses):

“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

“...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19).

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

"...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;” (Titus 2:11-12).

“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation [i.e. as the people of Israel did when they rebelled against him in the desert.”] (Hebrews 3:12-15) (Note: The explanation on verse 15 in brackets is taken from the Living Bible Translation (TLB)).

”Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)” (Hebrews 3:10-11).

”Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11).

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

“He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

There are five things (as a whole) in the Bible that people are not getting when they read Paul, and thus they easily misunderstand him in justifying a false "sin and still be saved" or "Belief Alone" type gospel (Which is no doubt appealing because it means that a person does not have to change their life all that much and they can live for themselves instead of the Lord). But Jesus says, "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do the things which I say? (Luke 6:46) (NHEB).

Here are the 5 things (as a whole) in Scripture that your average Christian does not understand when they read Paul:

#1. The Bible teaches that there is a change of the Law (Hebrews 7:12); So when Paul talks about the "Law" (generically), he is referring to the Torah, i.e. the Old Law (or the many laws given to Moses and Israel) and not the commandments given to us by Jesus Christ and His followers (i.e. the New Law or New Testament Law).

#2. Paul was fighting against "Circumcision Salvationism" (Which is Law Alone Salvationism without God's grace); A certain sect of Jews were trying to deceive some Christians into thinking they had to first be circumcised in order to be saved. This was a heresy that was clearly addressed at the Jerusalem council (See Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24). Paul also addressed this problem; Paul said to the Galatians that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing (Galatians 5:2), and then Paul mentions how if you seek to be justified by the Law, you have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4). This "law" is the Torah because circumcision is not a part of the commands given to us by Jesus and His followers. See post #105 below to learn more.

#3. An Understanding on the Pharisee's false beliefs according to the Bible:

A. Christian Belief Alone Proponents (or those who think they can abide in some kind of sin on some level and still be saved) do not understand that the Pharisees sometimes ignored God's grace like in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee (Luke 18:9-14) and this was not at the expense of failing to uphold basic morality. For in this parable, the problem of the Pharisee is that he was not crying out to God for forgiveness of his sins like the tax collector was doing. So the Pharisee needed to get his heart right with God first. In short, the Pharisee was making salvation all about works with no emphasis on God's grace as the entrance gate and foundation of his faith. Hence, why Paul fought against "Works Alone Salvationism" without God's grace. But what they fail to realize is that Jesus was not endorsing the tax collector to continue in his sin the rest of his life by merely paying lip service because Jesus also told two people to "sin no more" (See John 5:14, and John 8:11).

B. Some (not all) Christian Belief Alone Proponents (or those who believe they can abide in sin on some level and still be saved) think that the Pharisees kept the letter of the Law or they kept the Law perfectly and this was their problem. They say that the Pharisees kept the letter of the Law but not the spirit of the Law. However, these kinds of statements are not true. For Jesus said that the problem of the Pharisees was that they ignored the weightier matters of the Law like love, faith, justice, and mercy (See Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42). So Jesus had a problem with the Pharisees not keeping the Law; And Paul says if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ, and the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James 4:6 says God resists the proud, and gives grace to the humble.

#4. The Bible teaches that sin can separate us from God from Matthew to Revelation (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62) (1 John 3:15) (Galatians 5:19-21) (Revelation 21:8).

#5. The Bible teaches that obedience to God's commands is tied to eternal life from Matthew to Revelation (See Matthew 19:17-19) (Luke 10:25-28) (1 John 1:7) (1 John 3:23) (Hebrews 5:9) (Revelation 22:14).

BCsenior · Jul 16, 2019

Kris Jordan said:
Hi BCSenior,
You are biblically incorrect with what you are stating.

Am I incorrect because I lean away from believing in eternal security?

At the very least, many NT verses warn true believers to stay on the narrow path.
If these true believers cannot lose their salvation ...
then these warnings are bluffs, exaggerations, or even lies.

Many NT verses are warning church members about losing eternal life.
E.G. many NT verses warn that sin leads to eternal death.
WHO are the writers speaking to in the churches?
Unbelievers, born-again believers, or false believers?

Pepper77 · Jul 18, 2019

BCsenior said:
Am I incorrect because I lean away from believing in eternal security?

At the very least, many NT verses warn true believers to stay on the narrow path.
If these true believers cannot lose their salvation ...
then these warnings are bluffs, exaggerations, or even lies.

Many NT verses are warning church members about losing eternal life.
E.G. many NT verses warn that sin leads to eternal death.
WHO are the writers speaking to in the churches?
Unbelievers, born-again believers, or false believers?

People who have tasted the truth, but not been born of the Spirit. They are warned to continue, to go on to true faith in the finished work of Christ. Can someone be unborn? No. And once someone is in Christ they are joined to Him. They cannot be unjoined. Too many verses also speak of our security in Christ too. We have to reconcile them all together.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 18, 2019

Pepper77 said:
People who have tasted the truth, but not been born of the Spirit. They are warned to continue, to go on to true faith in the finished work of Christ. Can someone be unborn? No. And once someone is in Christ they are joined to Him. They cannot be unjoined. Too many verses also speak of our security in Christ too. We have to reconcile them all together.

I would rather side on the path of being more cautious than to be overconfident about my salvation. After all, it is our souls that are on the line here. We also see many examples of sin destroying a person's soul in the Bible. One of the first lies the devil gave Eve was Eternal Security. The devil told Eve that she could break God's command (i.e. to sin) and that she would not die. This same lie is being pushed today. Everyone is saying that you can sin on some level and still be saved. You can break God's command or commands and not die. Sounds like th devil to me back in the Garden. For example: John 10 talks about how we cannot be plucked out of His hand, but the conditions of not being plucked out of his hand is mentioned in verse 27 that says we have to be the kind of sheep that FOLLOW Him. Following Jesus means we are obeying His commandments. For Jesus says if you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love (John 15:10). For Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Paul says if any man does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed (1 Corinthians 16:22).

Pepper77 · Jul 18, 2019

To me you are completely disregarding our justification by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. It’s a gift lest anyone should boast Ephesians 2:8. Not only have we been justified but we’ve been made righteous as righteous as Christ. It’s through Christ’s finished work on the cross, not our work to try and not sin. All of our sins have been forgiven at the cross when we come to faith. And we are continually cleansed through the blood of Christ after we have come to faith as well. Sounds like you are saying to have true faith means to walk perfectly and never stumble or sin. Scripture teaches our identity as one born of the spirit is now in Christ a new creation, a Saint not a sinner. Paul address this and says since you have been cleansed since you are no longer an idolater or a liar, or a reviler walk that way. 1 Cor 6:8-11. Peter says in 2 Peter 5-9 that the fruits of the spirit will abound in our lives unless one is shortsighted even to blindness and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. Jesus said come to me all you who labor and I will give you rest. God wants those who are his to know they are and be confident that he who started a good work in them will complete it. Without that assurance the Christian life is one of condemnation, struggle, self effort, and listening to accusations of the evil one. God wants us to listen to what he says about us, that we are joint heirs with Christ, and we will reign with him, and right now spiritually, according to Ephesians and Colossians we are already seated in the heavenly‘s because we are in Christ. We are no longer in Adam but in Christ. Spiritually in the new creation, the new man, we are sinless, perfect, righteous, complete. But our bodies have not been redeemed, we still live in a fallen world and we still have an enemy Satan and the power of sin still exists. Paul says we have died to sin though, and reckon that to be true, that we can walk without sins power been over us. But it is a maturing growing process, our walk, and at times we do stumble and sin. With your theology every time we sin we’re no longer in Christ or no longer in the spirit. Paul says in Romans 8:9 “But you are not in the flesh but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.” The natural progression of your theology is that every time we sin we lose the spirit. Nowhere does scripture say that. Actually that’s when We need the spirit working in us even more, and he does. Paul says in the last verse of the fusions Ephesians 6:24, “ Grace be with all those who love our Lord Jesus Christ with incorruptible love”. Those who are in Christ love the Lord Jesus Christ with an incorrect about lo those who are in Christ love the Lord Jesus Christ with an incorruptible love. How can it be incorruptible? Because God is the source of the love. Romans 5:5 says, “ no hope does not disappoint because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us”. Salvation is of the Lord from start to finish we are the blessed recipients.

Kaon · Jul 18, 2019

BCsenior said:
Heads up! … Pastors have several different reasons for
NOT telling the sheep what they desperately need to hear.

The NT words “belief” and “faith” are very inadequate!

Because of what the whole of the NT teaches,
it is obvious that one word is completely insufficient
to describe what “belief” and “faith” really mean!
The NT clearly teaches us that simply believing and
having faith is NOT nearly enough to attain salvation.

We know that a mere intellectual belief in Jesus and
the gospel will NOT save anyone … but also, is merely
a deep heart-felt belief really enough to save anyone?

Initially

When believers first receive the Holy Spirit through
God’s free gift of mercy/grace, they receive everything:
reconciliation, justification, righteousness, (positional)
sanctification, holiness, salvation … everything!

But, after initially being born-again

Our free-will co-operation with the Holy Spirit is critically
important during our (continuing) sanctification … as He
tries to sanctify us unto holiness, “for without holiness
no one will see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14).

We read in the NT that believers are tested to prove
their faith is genuine. Our initial salvation is a free gift,
but we see a lot of warnings in the NT that IF our righteous
standing (i.e. salvation) is NOT maintained, it can be lost.

So, let’s not focus on our initial receiving of salvation;
instead let’s focus on the end of our salvation process!

JUSTIFICATION is about taking Jesus as SAVIOR.
SANCTIFICATION is about making Jesus LORD.
Have you been told that BOTH are required for salvation?

If Jesus is our SAVIOR, then we need to treat Him as our LORD!
Paul and Peter both called Him several times, “Savior and LORD”.
If Jesus is LORD, then we need to love and obey Him.
Indeed, He said 4 times: “Those who love Me will
obey My commandments.” (John 14:15,21,23,24).
And, “Those who are My friends will
obey My commandments.” (John 15:14).
Does anyone get to heaven who does NOT love Jesus,
who is NOT His friend, and who does NOT obey His commands?

Many Scriptures are very clear … obedience is NOT an option!

Pastors are responsible for WARNING the sheep about sin!
They need to teach us, for example:
● “God has called us to live holy lives, not impure lives.
Therefore, anyone who refuses to live by these rules …
is rejecting God” (1 Thessalonians 4:7-8)
● “It would be better if they had never known the way
to righteousness than to know it, and then reject
the command to live a holy life” (2 Peter 2:21)

Many NT verses teach each of the following spiritual truths
Believers prove true saving belief through obedience
Believers stay righteous by practicing righteousness
Believers keep salvation by repenting of their sins
Believers faith must endure to the end of their lives
Believers were chosen and called to live holy lives
Believers must come through as victorious overcomers

Yes, faith without works is dead. [Striving toward] Obedience is automatic in a relationship between parent and child; it isn't something that is passive either.

BCsenior · Jul 18, 2019

Pepper77 said:
People who have tasted the truth, but not been born of the Spirit. They are warned to continue, to go on to true faith in the finished work of Christ. Can someone be unborn? No. And once someone is in Christ they are joined to Him. They cannot be unjoined. Too many verses also speak of our security in Christ too. We have to reconcile them all together.

Yes, you have spiritual wisdom.
How's your reconciling coming along?
I've done mine to my satisfaction.
All it is ... is a word or two!

BCsenior · Jul 18, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
John 10 talks about how we cannot be plucked out of His hand, but the conditions of not being plucked out of his hand is mentioned in verse 27 that says we have to be the kind of sheep that FOLLOW Him. Following Jesus means we are obeying His commandments.

Yes, brother, I've read so many people on Christian forums talk about
the John 10:29 promise ... without considering the John 27 conditions of:
us hearing Jesus, Jesus knowing us, and us following Jesus.

Believers need to understand the Truth

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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