For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is

miamited · Jun 17, 2019

nolidad said:
Well hell exists now! It is the grave/netherworld. In Jesus day it had three compartments, Abrahams Bosom/paradise, the place of torments or hell and tartarus where the angels who left heaven in Genesis 6 to have sex with human women are held awaiting final judgment.

Technically what has not been populated yet is the lake of fire! Colloquially we call it hell, but the bible makes a difference between hell and the final place of eternal torment.

Hi nolidad,

I respectfully disagree with you. If you read the account of the Revelation you will find that just prior to God's judgment, all the souls are raised up out of the graves where they have been resting. Then they are cast into the fiery lake, which is the second death, which is hell. Jesus told us that we should fear the one who can cast our soul into hell. That's exactly how the Scriptures depict God's 'casting' both the demonic angels and the vile unbelievers into the second death.

As far as your theory on the 'three compartments', I would also disagree with your understanding of that being how the 'grave/netherworld' is divided.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

nolidad · Jun 17, 2019

miamited said:
Hi nolidad,

I respectfully disagree with you. If you read the account of the Revelation you will find that just prior to God's judgment, all the souls are raised up out of the graves where they have been resting. Then they are cast into the fiery lake, which is the second death, which is hell. Jesus told us that we should fear the one who can cast our soul into hell. That's exactly how the Scriptures depict God's 'casting' both the demonic angels and the vile unbelievers into the second death.

As far as your theory on the 'three compartments', I would also disagree with your understanding of that being how the 'grave/netherworld' is divided.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Well the fallen angels who kept not their first estate are reserved in chains in a place called tartarus in 2 Peter 2:4:

2 Peter 2:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Hell here is the word tartarus!

It is furhter defined in Jude!
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Revelation 20:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Notice that death and HELL are cast into the lake of fire before people are.

The English word hell is from 2 Greek words. One is Gehenna which refers to the type of punishment, and the other is Hades which corresponds to the Hebrew word Sheol which both mean teh grave or place of the dead!

The unsaved dead are still in Hades or the place of torment, but believers who die go straight to be with the Lord as Paul said:

2 Corinthians 5:6
Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2 Corinthians 5:8
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absentfrom the body, and to be present with the Lord

So once we are absent from the body (death or rapture) we are present with the Lord!

-57 · Jun 17, 2019

nolidad said:
Well hell exists now! It is the grave/netherworld. In Jesus day it had three compartments, Abrahams Bosom/paradise, the place of torments or hell and tartarus where the angels who left heaven in Genesis 6 to have sex with human women are held awaiting final judgment.

Technically what has not been populated yet is the lake of fire! Colloquially we call it hell, but the bible makes a difference between hell and the final place of eternal torment.

Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire

trophy33 · Jun 18, 2019

nolidad said:
God knows how to measure time so if He said there was three days prior to the sun- there was!

He never said that.

nolidad · Jun 18, 2019

myst33 said:
He never said that.

If by your statement you mean He never had anyone write He knows time apart from sunrise and sunset., He doesn't need to. As Soon as He created space/time/ matter on day one, Time started, though you may notbelieve so, I am, positive God knows how to measure time without sunrise sunset.

nolidad · Jun 18, 2019

-57 said:
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire

Yes the lakeof fire is the second death! For death and the grave are thrown into it and destroyed before people are thrown in and will never be destroyed.

nolidad · Jun 18, 2019

miamited said:
Hi nolidad,

I respectfully disagree with you. If you read the account of the Revelation you will find that just prior to God's judgment, all the souls are raised up out of the graves where they have been resting. Then they are cast into the fiery lake, which is the second death, which is hell. Jesus told us that we should fear the one who can cast our soul into hell. That's exactly how the Scriptures depict God's 'casting' both the demonic angels and the vile unbelievers into the second death.

As far as your theory on the 'three compartments', I would also disagree with your understanding of that being how the 'grave/netherworld' is divided.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Well we musat rely on Jesus and His Inspired writers.

I already showed you tartarus where the angels who sinned are being held (these are not the demons in Satans rebellion for they are still free to harass and tempt.

The other two are definitely described in the true account of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16

Lazarus went to Abrahams Bosom/Paradise (where Jesus and the penitent thief went upon their death as Jesus promised) and the place of torments that is called hell/sheol/hades. I leave gehenna out for it can be used of the temporary place of torment or the lake of fire depending on context. For this describes the punishment as opposed to a specific place.

trophy33 · Jun 18, 2019

nolidad said:
If by your statement you mean He never had anyone write He knows time apart from sunrise and sunset., He doesn't need to. As Soon as He created space/time/ matter on day one, Time started, though you may notbelieve so, I am, positive God knows how to measure time without sunrise sunset.

Genesis is not dictated by God. Its human authors speaking about God, not God speaking.

miamited · Jun 18, 2019

Hi nolidad,

Thanks for your response to my post. You wrote:

nolidad said:
I already showed you tartarus where the angels who sinned are being held (these are not the demons in Satans rebellion for they are still free to harass and tempt.

Yes, and that's not hell. Hell is the final destiny of the lost. It is where the worm will never die and where they will live an existence of eternal torment. Jesus seems to speak of the final destiny of the lost as a place of eternal cognizance. He says that they will be tormented forever. Now, some believe that such torment is at the hands of God. I don't.

I believe the eternal torment will merely be their living an eternal life with the rest of those who also sought after their own comfort and greed and hate in this life. Try to imagine what an eternal existence will be like for a body of people comprised of millions upon millions who are like John Gacy or Timothy McVeigh. Adolph Hitler and Idi Amin. An entire civilization of people that live a life similar to what, although surely much worse, than the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. Where everyone is out for themselves and there is no love for one another. Only a person's own lusts and greed and hate. That's going to be a life of eternal torment, but not by the hand of God. Rather the torment will be the result of all the wickedness that they will constantly and eternally live with. Their souls will be tormented every day because of the conditions under which they live. Imagine eternal life in a German concentration camp and quadruple the suffering.

BTW the angels held in tartarus are demons in Satan's rebellion. They're just held in captivity. A person who goes to jail because they associated with Manson is still a part of that group in their thoughts and words, they just can't work out with them the evil deeds that the rest of the group does.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

miamited · Jun 18, 2019

myst33 said:
Genesis is not dictated by God. Its human authors speaking about God, not God speaking.

Hi myst,

I can't speak for nolidad, but I can assure you that you and I have a largely different understanding of the source of knowledge and wisdom that is found in the Scriptures. Paul assures us that the Scriptures were not written by the will of man.

All Scripture is God-breathed...

Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God'"

Where are these words that come from the mouth of God that Jesus spoke of? The words that all mankind are to live by. Has God audibly spoken to you? I contend that Jesus was speaking of the words that are found in the Scriptures which he quoted often. He even calls the Scriptures...God's word. Jesus is telling us that these words that we find in the Scriptures, came from the very mouth of God.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

trophy33 · Jun 18, 2019

miamited said:
...
All Scripture is God-breathed...
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation of things.
...

Genesis is not a prophecy. Its an amalgamation of Mesopotamian worldview, a polemic with pagan creation myths and a bit of ancient semitic history.

The point/message is inspired, there is really just one true God, the creator of everything, who called Abraham to be his servant.

nolidad · Jun 18, 2019

miamited said:
Hi nolidad,

Thanks for your response to my post. You wrote:

Yes, and that's not hell. Hell is the final destiny of the lost. It is where the worm will never die and where they will live an existence of eternal torment. Jesus seems to speak of the final destiny of the lost as a place of eternal cognizance. He says that they will be tormented forever. Now, some believe that such torment is at the hands of God. I don't.

I believe the eternal torment will merely be their living an eternal life with the rest of those who also sought after their own comfort and greed and hate in this life. Try to imagine what an eternal existence will be like for a body of people comprised of millions upon millions who are like John Gacy or Timothy McVeigh. Adolph Hitler and Idi Amin. An entire civilization of people that live a life similar to what, although surely much worse, than the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. Where everyone is out for themselves and there is no love for one another. Only a person's own lusts and greed and hate. That's going to be a life of eternal torment, but not by the hand of God. Rather the torment will be the result of all the wickedness that they will constantly and eternally live with. Their souls will be tormented every day because of the conditions under which they live. Imagine eternal life in a German concentration camp and quadruple the suffering.

BTW the angels held in tartarus are demons in Satan's rebellion. They're just held in captivity. A person who goes to jail because they associated with Manson is still a part of that group in their thoughts and words, they just can't work out with them the evil deeds that the rest of the group does.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Hi Ted:

What so mnay of us in these modern days need to do is stop thinking in just English words and understanding and go back to the original languages when a clearer picture is needed. While our translations (whennot deliberately tampered with) are enough for us to grow in grace- every lover of Gods Word should study wiht ancient languages nearby.

In the Mark account Jesus speaks of cut your hand, leg or eye so you will not go into the fires of hell where the worm never dies...

In Luke 16 the rich man is in torment in hell.

Mark uses the term Gehenna we mistranslated as hell. This describes more the type of punishment in the lake of fire more so than the actual destination. Jesus was the first to use this word to describe eternity. It was the town dump in the valley of ginnom.

Luke uses the Word hades- which was well understood as the place of the dead. And as I showed that bvefore people are cast into the lake of fire- death and hades/hell/sheol are cast in first

nolidad · Jun 18, 2019

miamited said:
BTW the angels held in tartarus are demons in Satan's rebellion. They're just held in captivity. A person who goes to jail because they associated with Manson is still a part of that group in their thoughts and words, they just can't work out with them the evil deeds that the rest of the group does.

Some believe that and it is a small thing not worth quibbling over. But I find them to be angels who sinned versus rebelled in Genesis 6. The fact that Jude says that the angels who left their first home and came down are reserved for everlasting judgment tells us that the action and results of that action are the cause.

We see this cause and effect played out in Gensis 6:
Genesis 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

nolidad · Jun 18, 2019

myst33 said:
Genesis is not dictated by God. Its human authors speaking about God, not God speaking.

Well without getting into teh weeds -All Scripture is God breathed!

Holy men wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. The ink and language and work was from men- but the content is all of God! They wrote as god instructed them to. Not a automatons but God somehow someway protected them from error.

KWCrazy · Jun 18, 2019

Lazarus Short said:
Yet, though no creation account in the Bible says that God made Hell...

Not there but later. In the Gospels Christs talks more about Hell than about Heaven.

KWCrazy · Jun 18, 2019

miamited said:
If you read the account of the Revelation you will find that just prior to God's judgment, all the souls are raised up out of the graves where they have been resting. Then they are cast into the fiery lake, which is the second death, which is hell.

Not quite.
Some are destroyed in the lake of fire- that's the second death.
Some will spend eternity in Hell.
Meaning not all who aren't saved will go to Hell. God is just. Many have never heard of Christ and have still tried to live a good life. As Paul said, those who are outside of the law will be judged outside of the law. They will NOT come into the presence of God. However, whether they are in a lesser eternity, whether they are destroyed and gone or whether their eternity will be in damnation is for the Lord to decide.

-57 · Jun 18, 2019

myst33 said:
Genesis is not dictated by God. Its human authors speaking about God, not God speaking.

Are you once again disagreeing with Paul where he says ALL scripture is inspired, God breathed?

KWCrazy · Jun 18, 2019

myst33 said:
Genesis is not a prophecy. Its an amalgamation of Mesopotamian worldview, a polemic with pagan creation myths and a bit of ancient semitic history.

What you're saying is a lie. The fact that you are professing it to be true is heresy. Any opinion stated as fact which does not conform to the Bible is heresy. The way to avoid it is to back what you say with passages of Scripture or present it as opinion. In either respect, you are saying that Genesis, which CHRIST QUOTED, is not the word of God.

Why, then, did Christ quote it?

-57 · Jun 18, 2019

KWCrazy said:
What you're saying is a lie. The fact that you are professing it to be true is heresy. Any opinion stated as fact which does not conform to the Bible is heresy. The way to avoid it is to back what you say with passages of Scripture or present it as opinion. In either respect, you are saying that Genesis, which CHRIST QUOTED, is not the word of God.

Why, then, did Christ quote it?

This is what happens when one tries to filter the bible through the false religion of evolutionism.

KWCrazy · Jun 18, 2019

-57 said:
This is what happens when one tries to filter the bible through the false religion of evolutionism.

Exactly! Nothing in the Bible agrees with evolution. To embrace one, you must reject the other.

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is

Ted

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Ted

Ted

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Similar threads