Revelation About the Book of James

DM25

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The book of James confused me a lot. Everywhere in scripture it says we are saved by faith alone, not works, so I got confused about James 2. I saw some preachers twisting scripture in a way that still did not make sense... Saying things like being saved from man and stuff like that.

So I prayed to God for him to explain to me, and I figured it out! The book of James is talking to the 12 tribes of Israel (James 1:1). The 12 tribes of Israels are also mentioned in the book of Revelation. James is actually a prophetic book, talking to the Jews in the last days during tribulation. This is shown in James 5:3, literally saying that this is for them during the "last days". And we know during the time of Jacob's trouble, the Jews are not saved by faith alone, but by faith and works. This includes enduring until the end, avoiding the mark, and keeping the commandments of God (Revelation 14:12). So this book is not for the church, but for the 12 tribes of Israel, the Jews during the time of Jacob's trouble and tribulation in the last days. It was very eye opening when I realized this and it made a lot of sense.

That's why its important to rightly divide and pay attention who the message is for and really read what it is saying, rather than make a complete theology from one verse in the bible. :)
 
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Not David

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The book of James confused me a lot. Everywhere in scripture it says we are saved by faith alone, not works, so I got confused about James 2. I saw some preachers twisting scripture in a way that still did not make sense... Saying things like being saved from man and stuff like that.

So I prayed to God for him to explain to me, and I figured it out! The book of James is talking to the 12 tribes of Israel. The 12 tribes of Israels are mentioned in the book of Revelation. James is actually a prophetic book, talking to the Jews in the last days during tribulation. This is shown in James 5:3, literally saying that this is for them during the "last days". And we know during the time of Jacob's trouble, the Jews are not saved by faith alone, but by faith and works. This includes enduring until the end, avoiding the mark, and keeping the commandments of God (Revelation 14:12). So this book is not for the church, but for the 12 tribes of Israel, the Jews during the time of Jacob's trouble and tribulation in the last days. It was very eye opening when I realized this and it made a lot of sense.

That's why its important to rightly divide and pay attention who the message is for and really read what it is saying, rather than make a complete theology from one verse in the bible. :)
  • Nowhere in the Bible does it say "we are saved by faith alone".
  • Nowhere does it say it is for the "12 tribes of Israel", the epistles after Hebrew are called "the Catholic Epistles".
  • "Rather than make a complete theology from one verse in the bible." You do that when you use the "saved by grace through faith" as a "faith alone" argument.
 
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DM25

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  • Nowhere in the Bible does it say "we are saved by faith alone".

  • Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
    "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. - - This is the gospel :)
    [*]Nowhere does it say it is for the "12 tribes of Israel", the epistles after Hebrew are called "the Catholic Epistles"
First sentence of the book buddy

James 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

"Rather than make a complete theology from one verse in the bible." You do that when you use the "saved by grace through faith" as a "faith alone" argument.
Absolutely I will. Because that's the gospel that saves. :)
 
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  • Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
    "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. - - This is the gospel :)
First sentence of the book buddy

James 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.


Absolutely I will. Because that's the gospel that saves. :)
The whole New Testament talks about the Church being Israel, not the unfaithful Jews.
Also I think I missed the verse that talks about "faith alone" :scratch:
 
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I must respectfully disagree with OP. As I understand that controversial verse (show me your faith without works and I will show you my faith by my works) James is merely saying that if someone is truly converted, s/he will have fruit and works that prove they are saved. Having neither fruit nor good works that glorify God in them is an indication that they have no responded to the gospel correctly, but are stony hearers. The works, in and of themselves, do not save.
 
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DM25

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The whole New Testament talks about the Church being Israel, not the unfaithful Jews.
Also I think I missed the verse that talks about "faith alone" :scratch:
That verse shows you faith alone... Faith, not of works... That's what faith alone means... This is the entire foundation of the gospel message.
 
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DM25

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I must respectfully disagree with OP. As I understand that controversial verse (show me your faith without works and I will show you my faith by my works) James is merely saying that if someone is truly converted, s/he will have fruit and works that prove they are saved. Having neither fruit nor good works that glorify God in them is an indication that they have no responded to the gospel correctly, but are stony hearers. The works, in and of themselves, do not save.
Well I respect your opinion. I used to think the same as you.
 
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klutedavid

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  • Nowhere in the Bible does it say "we are saved by faith alone".
  • Nowhere does it say it is for the "12 tribes of Israel", the epistles after Hebrew are called "the Catholic Epistles".
  • "Rather than make a complete theology from one verse in the bible." You do that when you use the "saved by grace through faith" as a "faith alone" argument.
Luke 7:50
And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
 
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The whole New Testament talks about the Church being Israel, not the unfaithful Jews.
Also I think I missed the verse that talks about "faith alone" :scratch:
An accurate exegesis of the beginning of James would involve the intention of the author and how his readers of the time would understand what he wrote.

I think that your interpretation of James' words as meaning the whole Christian church being Israel is faulty Hermeneutics based on a groundless "leap" of meaning which James' hearers would not understand.

Here is my exegesis:

"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,"
James was one of the principal Apostles of the Jerusalem church. He was a converted Jew, therefore he identifies himself, not as an Apostle or a leader in the church, but a servant of the Lord Jesus Christ.

"To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations: Greetings."
He is addressing his letter to his fellow Jewish believers who are scattered throughout the Roman empire because of Herod's persecution of Jewish Christians in Jerusalem. Compare this with Peter's first letter in which he addresses it to: "exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia," Peter is also writing to exiled Jewish believers who are scattered around the empire, also because of Herod's persecution. Contrast this with Paul's letter to the Corinthians, where he addresses his letter to: "those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours". Paul is writing to all Christian believers, Jew and Gentile. He is not limiting his readership to "the twelve tribes" or "the exiles". It is recognised that Peter is the Apostle to the Jewish believers, while Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles. James. being part of the Jerusalem ministry team along with Peter before Herod's persecution would see himself as supporting his fellow Jewish believers who once fellowshipped with him in Jerusalem but are now scattered abroad.

My hermeneutic interpretation (doesn't have to be the only one. That is the nature of hermeneutics):
So, because it is clear that James is writing to his fellow Jews who are still being weaned off having to abide by the Mosaic Law, he is conscious that they do not totally abandon the Law as their guide to living as believers. It is possible that by this time, Paul's letters are being circulated, especially his letter to the Romans which contains most of his "just shall live by faith" theology. James may be conscious that his fellow Jewish believers don't misread Paul and think that the principles of the Mosaic Law for holy living are no longer applicable.

Therefore he is warning not to use faith as just lip service without having changed hearts. While Paul talks in general of walking in the Spirit and having the fruit of the Spirit as the basis of Christian living, James is giving practical examples of how the fruit of the Spirit is shown in the life of the believer.

He is certainly telling his readers not only to read the Bible, but to do it as well.

I don't believe that this letter of James was widely circulated among the Gentile believers, because it wasn't addressed to them. But of course, as time went on, his letter was accepted, but is missing from the earliest list of New Testament books and only accepted as part of the New Testament in the 4th Century. Martin Luther rejected it as an inspired epistle because it appeared to be contrary to his view of Justification by Faith.
 
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DM25

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An accurate exegesis of the beginning of James would involve the intention of the author and how his readers of the time would understand what he wrote.

I think that your interpretation of James' words as meaning the whole Christian church being Israel is faulty Hermeneutics based on a groundless "leap" of meaning which James' hearers would not understand.

Here is my exegesis:

"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,"
James was one of the principal Apostles of the Jerusalem church. He was a converted Jew, therefore he identifies himself, not as an Apostle or a leader in the church, but a servant of the Lord Jesus Christ.

"To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations: Greetings."
He is addressing his letter to his fellow Jewish believers who are scattered throughout the Roman empire because of Herod's persecution of Jewish Christians in Jerusalem. Compare this with Peter's first letter in which he addresses it to: "exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia," Peter is also writing to exiled Jewish believers who are scattered around the empire, also because of Herod's persecution. Contrast this with Paul's letter to the Corinthians, where he addresses his letter to: "those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours". Paul is writing to all Christian believers, Jew and Gentile. He is not limiting his readership to "the twelve tribes" or "the exiles". It is recognised that Peter is the Apostle to the Jewish believers, while Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles. James. being part of the Jerusalem ministry team along with Peter before Herod's persecution would see himself as supporting his fellow Jewish believers who once fellowshipped with him in Jerusalem but are now scattered abroad.

My hermeneutic interpretation (doesn't have to be the only one. That is the nature of hermeneutics):
So, because it is clear that James is writing to his fellow Jews who are still being weaned off having to abide by the Mosaic Law, he is conscious that they do not totally abandon the Law as their guide to living as believers. It is possible that by this time, Paul's letters are being circulated, especially his letter to the Romans which contains most of his "just shall live by faith" theology. James may be conscious that his fellow Jewish believers don't misread Paul and think that the principles of the Mosaic Law for holy living are no longer applicable.

Therefore he is warning not to use faith as just lip service without having changed hearts. While Paul talks in general of walking in the Spirit and having the fruit of the Spirit as the basis of Christian living, James is giving practical examples of how the fruit of the Spirit is shown in the life of the believer.

He is certainly telling his readers not only to read the Bible, but to do it as well.

I don't believe that this letter of James was widely circulated among the Gentile believers, because it wasn't addressed to them. But of course, as time went on, his letter was accepted, but is missing from the earliest list of New Testament books and only accepted as part of the New Testament in the 4th Century. Martin Luther rejected it as an inspired epistle because it appeared to be contrary to his view of Justification by Faith.
Interesting take on it. But because of James 5:3, and that it is being written to the 12 tribes of Israel, and it's right near the end of the bible, I'm gonna still say it's literally a prophetic book to the Jews of the tribulation during the last days. Which makes sense in saying it is about faith + works. Those Jews who will not actively follow his commandments will end up getting deceived easily and taking the mark of the beast (as also mentioned in Rev 14:12). This is an instruction to the Israelites of the last days, where works and faith are both important to get saved and to endure until the end. It blew my mind how much sense it made once I pieced everything together.

Before anyone gets the wrong idea, this is NOT to say we as a church shouldn't do good works as well like mentioned in this book, obviously. Plenty of other books of the bible instruct us the church like 1 John to do good works as already saved people so our joy may be full in our walk with him. As well as following his commandments rooted around love. But as always, salvation is by grace through faith alone, not works. It's just important we remember that.
 
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Interesting take on it. But because of James 5:3, and that it is being written to the 12 tribes of Israel, and it's right near the end of the bible, I'm gonna still say it's literally a prophetic book to the Jews of the tribulation during the last days. Which makes sense in saying it is about faith + works. Those Jews who will not actively follow his commandments will end up getting deceived easily and taking the mark of the beast (as also mentioned in Rev 14:12). This is an instruction to the Israelites of the last days, where works and faith are both important to get saved and to endure until the end. It blew my mind how much sense it made once I pieced everything together.

Before anyone gets the wrong idea, this is NOT to say we shouldn't do good works as well like mentioned in this book. Plenty of other books of the bible instruct us the church like 1 John to do good works as saved people so our joy may be full in our walk with him.

There are different ways to handle the book of James.

You can just take it as salvation = faith + works, which is the stand of Roman Catholic, and many other denominations.

You can take it as salvation = faith only, but if you have no works after you are saved, you may lose your salvation, which is a more subtle way than the way above.

You can take it as Paul is saying justification before God, which is faith only. But James is talking about justification before Man, which requires work.

You can take a pure dispensationalist view, as you said, James being placed in the latter NT books even though it was written before Acts 15 event, James is meant for those who will be justified after the grace dispensation is over, the tribulation period, where you need faith and works once again.
 
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DM25

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You can take it as Paul is saying justification before God, which is faith only. But James is talking about justification before Man, which requires work.
This is what I believed before. But I prayed to God about it because it made no sense to me. Especially the verse about can faith save him from man? It just seemed like a strange interpretation that didn't make any sense to me.

You can take a pure dispensationalist view, as you said, James being placed in the latter NT books even though it was written before Acts 15 event, James is meant for those who will be justified after the grace dispensation is over, the tribulation period, where you need faith and works once again.
Given the facts we are given, this made the most sense. Despite it being written at that time, it was a prophetic message as it is mentioning the last days as well as the 12 tribes of Israel.
 
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Guojing

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This is what I believed before. But I prayed to God about it because it made no sense to me. Especially the verse about can faith save him from man? It just seemed like a strange interpretation that didn't make any sense to me.

I believe you are talking about this part in James 2?

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

From context, the him refers not to the person claiming to have faith, but rather the brother or sister that is in need of help. So I don't really see any strange interpretation there.
 
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DM25

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I believe you are talking about this part in James 2?

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

From context, the him refers not to the person claiming to have faith, but rather the brother or sister that is in need of help. So I don't really see any strange interpretation there.
I thought the exact same thing once but realized it didn't make sense. That part doesn't make sense because it's connected to the person it is talking about, not the person in need of help. It is saying "if a man says he has faith and doesn't have works, can faith save him"... Then it talks about the person in need separately in the next verse, not connected to that verse. The person in need of help is in the following verse. If it was talking about the person in need of help, it would say "can faith save a person in need" not "him" which is referring to the person who says he has faith and not works in that context.
 
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Interesting take on it. But because of James 5:3, and that it is being written to the 12 tribes of Israel, and it's right near the end of the bible, I'm gonna still say it's literally a prophetic book to the Jews of the tribulation during the last days. Which makes sense in saying it is about faith + works. Those Jews who will not actively follow his commandments will end up getting deceived easily and taking the mark of the beast (as also mentioned in Rev 14:12). This is an instruction to the Israelites of the last days, where works and faith are both important to get saved and to endure until the end. It blew my mind how much sense it made once I pieced everything together.

Before anyone gets the wrong idea, this is NOT to say we as a church shouldn't do good works as well like mentioned in this book, obviously. Plenty of other books of the bible instruct us the church like 1 John to do good works as already saved people so our joy may be full in our walk with him. As well as following his commandments rooted around love. But as always, salvation is by grace through faith alone, not works. It's just important we remember that.
I agree that the book does have a prophetic feel to it. I think that it deals with the "now" when James wrote it in 67AD just before he was martyred. It was a violent period in Israel's history and Jewish Christians were going through some horrific times. But also hints at the "afterward" when there will be the great tribulation period of the last days.

Also, because it was written primarily for Jewish Christians, there are many truths that equally apply to all Christian believers. He writes about the type of good works that must underpin genuine faith. He does not include the religious good works, or the following of the Law or religious ceremonies and rituals that some churches are essential good works. He speaks about practical ways to make life easier for those in need, like widows, orphans and poor people. He says that these are the works that should follow anyone who says they have faith. That applies to all of us.
 
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The book of James confused me a lot. Everywhere in scripture it says we are saved by faith alone, not works, so I got confused about James 2. I saw some preachers twisting scripture in a way that still did not make sense... Saying things like being saved from man and stuff like that.

So I prayed to God for him to explain to me, and I figured it out! The book of James is talking to the 12 tribes of Israel (James 1:1). The 12 tribes of Israels are also mentioned in the book of Revelation. James is actually a prophetic book, talking to the Jews in the last days during tribulation. This is shown in James 5:3, literally saying that this is for them during the "last days". And we know during the time of Jacob's trouble, the Jews are not saved by faith alone, but by faith and works. This includes enduring until the end, avoiding the mark, and keeping the commandments of God (Revelation 14:12). So this book is not for the church, but for the 12 tribes of Israel, the Jews during the time of Jacob's trouble and tribulation in the last days. It was very eye opening when I realized this and it made a lot of sense.

That's why its important to rightly divide and pay attention who the message is for and really read what it is saying, rather than make a complete theology from one verse in the bible. :)
Nah, James just states the obvious; we're not saved by faith alone, unless we want to sort of re-qualify the word "faith" to include other stuff, the most important of which would be love. Because as Paul tells us in 1 Cor 13,
"...if I have a faith that can move mountains but have not love, I am nothing."
Or Augustine,
"Without love faith may indeed exist but avails nothing."
IOW,
"The only thing that counts is faith working through love." Gal 5:6

Faith is the beginning, the foundation, of justification for man because faith is the doorway to God who is the doorway to love. We're saved by faith: via faith, through faith. God, alone, can justify man as we enter communion with Him through faith, and that justice or righteousness is real. And that real righteousness, the righteousness that fulfills the law, is called "love". And love obeys God and acts, or works, for the good of others, by its nature.

IOW faith is the right path to obedience because without it man cannot really obey; his "righteousness" is a pretense, coming from self-effort, when under the law rather than under grace.
 
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James:-------works>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies (James 2)
Paul:--------obey from the heart>>>>>>>>>>>justifies/freed from sin (Romans 6)

James and Paul are 100% agreement that the work of obedience to God's will is necessary to being justified meaning faith only (faith void of obedience) cannot justify.

James:------works>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies (James 2)
Paul:--------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies (Romans 5)

Since there is just one way to be saved/justified, then faith is a work that justifies, hence faith without works is dead.

When James says works justifies and Paul says works do not justify, they are speaking of different types of works. James and Paul both show obedient works in doing God's will justifies. Paul in Romans is showing perfect, flawless works required by the OT law of Moses does not justify. The contradictions lie within Luther's philosophy of faith only and not the Bible.
 
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The book of James confused me a lot. Everywhere in scripture it says we are saved by faith alone, not works, so I got confused about James 2. I saw some preachers twisting scripture in a way that still did not make sense... Saying things like being saved from man and stuff like that.
To reconcile Paul and James some Christians will read Paul in light of James, advocating the idea that James is indeed talking about salvation by works of faith, and that Paul is also talking about salvation by works of faith but that where Paul seems to contradict James Paul is not talking about works of faith but some other category of work.

Other Christians read James in light of Paul, advocating the idea that salvation is by faith apart from issues of performance or works, but that James is talking about the effect of faith rather than the cause of salvation, which is contingent solely on faith.

And there's your eschatological/dispensational view.

However there is yet another position, a position which Martin Luther held. Namely that James is indeed talking about salvation by works, but that James is WRONG in comparison to Paul who preaches the gospel correctly advocating salvation by faith apart from works.

Luther's Astute Observation

I would start this introduction just as Martin Luther starting his introduction to this epistle saying, "this epistle of St. James was rejected by the ancients" Martin Luther and "I do not regard it as the writing of an apostle, and my reasons follow. In the first place it is flatly against St. Paul and all the rest of Scripture in ascribing justification to works 2:24). It says that Abraham was justified by his works when he offered his son Isaac (2:20); Though in Romans 4:22-22 St. Paul teaches to the contrary that Abraham was justified apart from works, by his faith alone, before he had offered his son, and proves it by Moses in Genesis 15:6. Although it would be possible to "save" the epistle by a gloss giving a correct explanation of justification here ascribed to works, it is impossible to deny that it does refer to Moses' words in Genesis 15 (which speaks not of Abraham's works but of his faith, just as Paul makes plain in Romans 4) to Abraham's works. This fault proves that this epistle is not the work of any apostle." Martin Luther

This particularly becomes an issue in the second part of chapter 2 where James' ACTUAL statements are in contradiction to Paul's writings, particularly Romans 4. In both cases they apply Gen 15:6 to their argument which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." In Romans 4 Paul uses this verse as proof that justification is by faith alone apart from works, interpreting the Gen 15:6 as being fulfilled right then in Gen 15:6 prior to Abraham doing any works of faith regarding that promise. And of course he couldn't have done any works of faith prior to the promise, since such "faith" would not have been in regards to that promise. Whereas James views Gen 15:6 as a prediction, a prophecy not being fulfilled until Gen 22, when Abraham did a work of faith. For to James, justification is not attained until one has both faith and works.

Note how James phrases James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."

Every time in the Bible when this kind of phrase is used it's ALWAYS referring to the scripture as being a prophecy, a prediction of a future event.
(Yes, I checked that out and you can to)

Thus James views Abraham as either not believing God in Gen 15, or believing God, but not being reckoned righteous until Gen 22, prior to which Abraham had faith but no works, of which James refers to as dead faith and not able to save. Thus James views Abraham as not saved until Gen 22 when he offered Isaac as a work.

If James interpretation is correct concerning Gen 15:6, then Paul can't use it to prove his point in Romans 4. Conversely if Paul's interpretation of Gen 15:6 is correct and thus Abraham was justified by faith alone apart from works, then James is wrong. And thus Luther said and I agree concerning James, "it is flatly against St. Paul and all the rest of Scripture in ascribing justification to works"

In fact why would James bring up Gen 15:6 to begin with? It doesn't lend support to his argument. Unlike Paul he's not using it as "proof" validating his point, rather he's simply imposing an interpretation of Gen 15:6 which is explicitly and intentionally contrary to Paul's gospel.

Furthermore consider the phrasing James chose in direct contradiction to Paul:

Paul in Romans 4:2-6
"if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works"

James 2:20,21
"But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?"
James 2:24
"You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only."

And regarding the law, while Paul says in Gal 3:10 "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.'" and being under the law he refers to as bondage. yet James again contradicts Paul by saying, "speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty." James 2:12. And yes he is talking about the law of Moses as he quotes Deut and Exodus referencing the Law of Moses.

These facts provide evidence that James is intentionally contradicting Paul.
 
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DM25

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I don't see "Your faith alone has saved you"
What do you have trouble understanding? Scripture says we are saved by faith, not works. Faith alone... There's either faith, works, or both. If it says faith, not works, that means faith alone. This is basic reading comprehension. The term trinity isn't in the bible either, but the father, son, and holy spirit is.

Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 
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