CAN A BELIEVER FALL AWAY FROM GOD AND BECOME AN UNBELIEVER?

Jack871 · May 24, 2019

Ours is a PERSONAL relationship with God. Does absolute truth and definite wrong and right exist? Yes, absolutely and thank God!!! Amen. Do we have need of a Savior? You bet. If you insist that your salvation is hinged upon the letter of the law, then you had better follow it to the letter...TO THE LETTER.
Start reading Leviticus and all the rest. God's Word expresses that the law could not save us and that God made provision through Christ. Amen. We are highly imperfect beings in a fallen world. We needed a Savior. Believe in the power of Christ's blood on the cross.

crossnote · May 24, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Of course that is what the scriptures teach as shown in the OP.

Cherry picking Scriptures to fit your preconceived doctrine proves nothing. I can equally produce an abundance of Scriptures that would show that one can't lose HIS salvation. You frame the question wrong when you ask if "One can lose THEIR salvation". Salvation is of the Lord, it is His to give and He doesn't take it back.
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (Rom 11:29)

Jack871 · May 24, 2019

Grip Docility said:
That height nor depth passage comes to mind.

Yes, thank you so much. That does fit perfectly, doesn't it? God loves us so much.

Guojing · May 24, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Jesus says by their fruits you shall know them. 1 JOHN 2:3-4 and 1 JOHN 3:3-10 describes very clearly who God's children are and the children of the Devil. The children of the Devil do not enter the kingdom of heaven if they continue in known unrepentant sin because by doing so they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. The good news of the Gospel of is that JESUS came to save us from our sins not to continue living in sin *JOHN 8:31-36.

God bless.

What is your answer to this question,

Can an unbeliever fall away from Satan if he does "too much" good works, but without accepting Jesus as his substitute?

Grip Docility · May 24, 2019

Therefore, no condemnation now exists for those in Christ Jesus, because the Spirit’s law of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. No, in all these things we are more than victorious through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that not even death or life, angels or rulers, things present or things to come, hostile powers, height or depth, or any other created thing will have the power to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord!
Romans 8:1-2,37-39 - Bible Gateway passage: Romans 8:1-2, Romans 8:37-39 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

May the self righteous lies of Satan to many that Love Jesus... be reviled and destroyed!

All is in Christ Jesus, Alone.

Grip Docility · May 24, 2019

Guojing said:
What is your answer to this question,

Can an unbeliever fall away from Satan if he does "too much" good works, but without accepting Jesus as his substitute?

No...

That chasm from Sheol to Heaven is far too great to cross.

There is only ONE that can BRIDGE that Chasm.

Guojing · May 25, 2019

Grip Docility said:
No...

That chasm from Sheol to Heaven is far too great to cross.

There is only ONE that can BRIDGE that Chasm.

Yet, are we saying Jesus's obedience is "weaker" than Adam's disobedience, that a Christian can fall away by doing "bad deeds"?

Grip Docility · May 25, 2019

Guojing said:
Yet, are we saying Jesus's obedience is "weaker" than Adam's disobedience, that a Christian can fall away by doing "bad deeds"?

How can the “dead” “do” bad deeds?

What I mean is... If I’m “dead” In the tomb... and it’s Him that is “Alive”... in place of me...

How can deeds be charged against a dead man?

Galatians 2:20 ; Romans 6:8 ; Colossians 2:20 ; Colossians 2:16 ; Ephesians 2:15 ; Galatians 6:14 ; 2 Corinthians 10:3 ; Romans 7:4-6 ; Colossians 3:3 ; Romans 6:2-11

Guojing · May 25, 2019

Grip Docility said:
How can the “dead” “do” bad deeds?

What I mean is... If I’m “dead” In the tomb... and it’s Him that is “Alive”... in place of me...

How can deeds be charged against a dead man?

Galatians 2:20 ; Romans 6:8 ; Colossians 2:20 ; Colossians 2:16 ; Ephesians 2:15 ; Galatians 6:14 ; 2 Corinthians 10:3 ; Romans 7:4-6 ; Colossians 3:3 ; Romans 6:2-11

Yep, so my point is that a Christian cannot fall away from God, thru his actions, because it was not his actions that cause him to be a Christian in the first place.

Grip Docility · May 25, 2019

Guojing said:
Yep, so my point is that a Christian cannot fall away from God, thru his actions, because it was not his actions that cause him to be a Christian in the first place.

As a person hears the Gospel...

They must choose to believe the Gospel.

As a person believes the Gospel... the Son brings them into the Presence of the Father... where they are drawn into True Belief.

It is everywhere in between True Belief and hearing the gospel that the parable of the seed can take place.

Then He told them many things in parables, saying: “Consider the sower who went out to sow. 4 As he was sowing, some seed fell along the path, and the birds came and ate them up.

5 Others fell on rocky ground, where there wasn’t much soil, and they sprang up quickly since the soil wasn’t deep. 6 But when the sun came up they were scorched, and since they had no root, they withered.

7 Others fell among thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them. Still others fell on good ground and produced a crop: some 100, some 60, and some 30 times what was sown.

9 Anyone who has ears should listen!”

18 “You, then, listen to the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word about the kingdom and doesn’t understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the one sown along the path.

20 And the one sown on rocky ground—this is one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy. 21 Yet he has no root in himself, but is short-lived. When pressure or persecution comes because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

22 Now the one sown among the thorns—this is one who hears the word, but the worries of this age and the seduction of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

23 But the one sown on the good ground—this is one who hears and understands the word, who does bear fruit and yields: some 100, some 60, some 30 times what was sown.”
Matthew 13:3-9,18-23 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 13:3-9, Matthew 13:18-23 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

Grip Docility · May 25, 2019

Now allow me to be enormously clear...

Even the most sincere servants of God can be led by Demon Doctrine to attempt to remove a believer from obtaining True Belief.

It is not in the world of the lost that Satan meets people. It is not in those that are enslaved to addictions that Satan is found.

Satan has sought to poison the Water of Life from day one.

The wicked, Sly Dragon whispers to this day...

“You shall be like God”

LoveGodsWord · May 25, 2019

Jack871 said:
True. But did not Paul also say that he struggled with sin in a very real sense? The verses are well known. Romans 7:18-20 …18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. 20And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.…
So while Paul is NOT saying that we should all just go out and willfully sin, he is saying that it can be a real struggle even for a believer. Anyone who says that he is 100% sinless from the moment that he/she is born again is full of beans. Christ died a brutal death on the cross for our salvation...not just from original sin inherited from Adam but our sin here and now in this life...the one in which we struggle.
It's a matter of heart... God knows the heart of a sincere follower of Christ. No one in this life can judge the innermost heart of a man.

Paul is descibing the OLD MAN of sin. Not the NEW MAN in Christ. There is no such thing as 100% sinless in this life because there are KNOWN SINS and UNKNOWN SIN that God reveals to us as we GROW in God's Grace. JESUS came to save us from SIN not to CONTINUE in it *JOHN 8:31-36

LoveGodsWord · May 25, 2019

Oscarr said:
Next time you go to church, quote the following verses to people:
"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith" (Galatians 3:10-11).
Then tell them that you are going to trust in Christ alone for your salvation, and following any laws that the church requires will be just voluntary for you and choosing not to follow them will make no difference to your standing with Christ.

See how far you will get.

Why would I need to? It is God's WORD and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4. If your trying to teach God's LAW is abolished however then your teaching another Gospel *MATTHEW 5:17-20.

LoveGodsWord · May 25, 2019

Jack871 said:
Well, what do you mean by "endure temptation?".

Enduring temptation is not giving into it...

JAMES 1:12 Blessed is the man that endures temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to them that love him.

REVELATION 21:7 [7], He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

REVELATION 22:14 [14], Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Grip Docility · May 25, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Paul is descibing the OLD MAN of sin. Not the NEW MAN in Christ. There is no such thing as 100% sinless in this life because there are KNOWN SINS and UNKNOWN SIN that God reveals to us as we GROW in God's Grace. JESUS came to save us from SIN not to CONTINUE in it *JOHN 8:31-36

I’ll be plain.

He didn’t die so we could sin... though we do. Accusing God’s intention of Complete Justification to Eternal Security... would be accusing the Holy Spirit of Giving us a License to Sin.

1 John 1:8 makes it clear... He died for us... because we sin.

As for sins of omission and sins of commission... bound before Almighty God I confess I struggle with both to this day.

After all, I confess my sins one to another.

He is faithful and just to forgive.

LoveGodsWord · May 25, 2019

Maria Billingsley said:
To clarify, not to repent from sin will cause a person to fall away from God. They are on the wide road of destruction rather than the narrow one where Christ dwells in His Kingdom. Hope this clears it up.

Thanks Maria well said and nice post. Thanks for sharing.

LoveGodsWord · May 25, 2019

crossnote said:
Cherry picking Scriptures to fit your preconceived doctrine proves nothing. I can equally produce an abundance of Scriptures that would show that one can't lose HIS salvation.

Your words are noted. Yet only God's WORD is true and you have provided none *ROMANS 3:4

Grip Docility · May 25, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Enduring temptation is not giving into it...

JAMES 1:12 Blessed is the man that endures temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to them that love him.

The temptation isn’t to sin or not, but to question the sufficiency of Christ to save.

The scribes who had come down from Jerusalem said, “He has Beelzebul in Him!” and, “He drives out demons by the ruler of the demons!” 28 I assure you: People will be forgiven for all sins and whatever blasphemies they may blaspheme. 29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin” — because they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”
Mark 3:22,28-30 - Bible Gateway passage: Mark 3:22, Mark 3:28-30 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

Grip Docility · May 25, 2019

Sin is “Missing the Mark”

God is the Mark...

Repentance... Change one’s mind

lowliness of mind, humility

LoveGodsWord · May 25, 2019

Yarddog said:
Yes, a believer can fall away, especially if they think they are being faithful but are following a false agenda. The early Church was filled with Jews who were trying to get believers to follow the Mosaic Law, which was really rejecting the blood of Jesus. This is why John called them anti-christs. Others followed heretical teachIngs, such as Arianism, Gnosticism, etc... Others turned away from Christ to embrace false gods or idols.

Hello brother Yarddog, nice post and thanks for some historical background.

It is interesting when we talk about false Gods and idol worship today. Many do not know that JESUS came to magnify the law and make it honourable applying it to our very thoughts and feelings *MATTHEW 5:17-28. This is in fullfillment of ISAIAH 42:21. Unless our righteousness shall exceed the rightouesness of the scribes and pharisees we will not enter into the kingdom of heaven *MATTHEW 5:20.

Applying this to false God's then and Idols (first two commandments) people say I do not worship other Gods and Idols but anything we put before God we can make an Idol of and worship it as a God. So the question we must ask ourselves is who has the heart? who do we love to think about and talk about the most. If it is not JESUS you have found your idol. JESUS came to teach us the salvation is from the INSIDE OUT. Unless our rightouesness exceeds the rightouesness of the scribes and pharisees we shall in not wise enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts brother.

CAN A BELIEVER FALL AWAY FROM GOD AND BECOME AN UNBELIEVER?

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