The pro-life position is very simple. We don't believe that a woman have the right to decide whether their unborn child dies for the exact same reasons why they do not have the right to decide whether their born child dies. The same penalty would apply to a doctor who terminates the life of a born child will apply to the ones who terminate the life of an unborn child.
Show me where the passage only speaks of the woman.
The Torah does not address the issue directly. The principal biblical source for Jewish law on abortion is a passage in Exodus (Exodus 21:22-23) concerning a case in which two men are fighting and injure a pregnant woman, causing her to miscarry. The verse states that if no other harm is done, the person who caused the damage must pay compensatory damages, but if there is further harm, then he should pay with his life. The common rabbinic interpretation is that if the only harm that comes to the woman is the loss of the fetus, it is treated as a case of property damage — not murder.
The later rabbinic sources address the issue more directly, beginning with the Mishnah referenced above. Elsewhere, the Mishnah says that if a pregnant woman is sentenced to death, the execution can go forward provided she has not yet gone into labor, a further indication that Jewish law does not accord the fetus full human rights prior to birth.
Wait, you deny Jesus was human?
This is a side note, but I also think it's weird that everyone opts to speak Latin and call the unborn baby a "fetus" rather than using the definition of fetus:
an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby more than eight weeks after conception.Why not say "unborn human baby" instead of "feotus?"
I deny Jesus was only human for 33 years. He is still and always will be human!
Because fetus is the correct term.
Me too. He was human, and was raised human and remains human. There's nothing in casually saying Jesus was human in the womb that contradicts this.
Do you believe Jesus was human both before and after his birth?
I agree. I was taking the same position as the Hebrew word “Shakol” is absent from the text.Ex. 21:22 “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
They key is the Hebrew word for "gives birth prematurely." The word here simply means to go out, and if the child goes out but there is no injury, there is merely a fine. This does not imply miscarriage which today means the child died. That is serous today, and was even more serious in ANE culture. They would not just blow that off and pay some small fine. Nor would they describe that as merely going out. The implication is that the child was not harmed, and that the family has been inconvenienced.
And if there is harm, it primarily pertains to the baby, as babies are vulnerable in the womb (not that our culture cares). That why the example refers to a pregnant woman and not just any woman who is not pregnant.
It’s part of the dehumanizing factor.This is a side note, but I also think it's weird that everyone opts to speak Latin and call the unborn baby a "fetus" rather than using the definition of fetus:
an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby more than eight weeks after conception.Why not say "unborn human baby" instead of "feotus?"
What a concept. I don't think Mary even consented to becoming pregnant. Although she did seem overjoyed when she discovered she was.Oh and BTW, wasn't Jesus, at least from Mary's perspective, an unplanned pregnancy?
I still wonder how many people who reply understand the fact human life begins at conception. I’m sure many do but rely on some subjective philosophy which deems “it’s human life but not a human being or ‘person’”
I’ve heard the “it’s just a bunch of cells” assertion many times. To which you have to ask what kind of “cells” are these? Human of course. Then the reply is usually “my finger nail has human cells.” And the sophistry continues from there.
Thanks for the source. The Mishna was written by which Apostle or church father?
So was Jesus!All my babies were people at conception!
Yep, apparently unborn babies are not human beings worthy of life unless the omnipotent mother declares it so.It’s part of the dehumanizing factor.