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- Thread starter Rick Otto
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Is t
Of course it is.
The fact that there are thousands of things in this world that are mysteries to us.... is "irrelevant" but the one thing that you are focused on "is" relevant?
Sure... ok.
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Ahhhh, the mysterious "they" again. They do get around don't they?
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You have disputed every single bit of evidence in every flat earth thread for a spherical earth! You go against science time and again.
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As the year passes, the moon and sun move around in a smaller more northern circle about the north pole. At the end of June, they are in their tightest circuit and gradually start moving outward as the summer goes by. In December, around the 21st, they are in their largest circuit.
Now, since I answered you, please answer me. Remember, I am not totally convinced of the FE, however, things about the globe are not adding up.
So, you have probably noticed, even though the sun and moon are supposedly massively different in size..... and one is supposedly orbiting us while we supposedly orbit the other, two things are very difficult to explain, in the globe model while the FE makes more sense... to me.
These two things are:
1/ Why do the sun and moon travel in the exact same path, across the sky, as the seasons change, if one orbits us and is totally disconnected from the other, while the other is orbited by us and it's position, during the seasons, is as a result of the tilt of the earth?
2/ They are the exact same size, in our view from earth.
bonus question:
3/ Is it not odd that we never see the other side of the moon? Does it not seem odd that it is spinning at just the right rate to never show us it's other side?
How are these things explained?
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Then why does the Sun’s speed never change?
If it’s traveling a shorter circuit, it should take a shorter time to get a day, meaning the Sun would have to slow down to maintain 24 hour days. If it’s traveling a longer circuit, it should take a longer time, meaning the Sun has to speed up to maintain 24 hour days.
This is not what we observe. The sun - and the stars - moves about 15 degrees every hour. Consistently. It doesn’t move faster or slower depending on the seasons.
Also, if what you say is true, the Sun and Moon should change size depending on the time of the year and where you are. When it’s in the shorter circuit and you’re in the northern hemisphere, it should appear bigger than it does in the Southern Hemisphere, and vice versus. That never happens. They appear the same size no matter where you are on the earth. If they’re small and close, that doesn’t make sense. If they’re big and far away, it does make sense. While the Earth’s proximity to the Sun does change, it doesn’t vary enough to make a change that you could see with the naked eye. It’s like taking ten steps closer to a mountain that’s ten miles away.
Also also, I’d love to see you explain how this works with the 24/7 sunlight we see at certain times and places.
Also also also, you seem to be implying that this small sun of yours gets hotter the closer you are to it, and there are SO MANY PROBLEMS with that.
Also also also also, why would the Moon be changing its circuit? It has jack-all to do with the seasons. And come to think of it, why is the Moon traveling at a completely different speed and direction than the Sun and Stars - except for the planets, which are also traveling at different speeds and directions?
Because they’re very far away, and tilt isn’t going to make their apparent path change to any noticeable degree.
Do you understand why the Earth’s tilt causes seasons?
If I hold my thumb up just right, it appears to be the same size as my house. So what?
It’s also worth noting that Moon’s apparent size does change - not in relation to the seasons, sorry, but it does. It’s why we get annular eclipses.
Why do you get a bonus? Anyway, it’s called tidal locking. You’re not going to accept it, because it involves gravity, but it’s not a mystery.
Fun Fact: It’s not the only heavenly body that does this. If you ever bother to look at it, you might notice that Mercury isn’t turning much, either. That’s the reason why.
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If we examine our local universe there are a number of observations that must be consistently explained:
1. tidal effects on earth
2. moon's near side "locked' to earth
3. phases of the moon
4. retardation of the moon's 'rising'
5. seasons of the earth
6. seasonal 24 hour days and nights in the arctic and antarctic
7. coreolis effects on earth
8. Foucault's pendulum
9. precession of the earth's axis
10. apparent daily rotation of the "fixed stars" about the pole star
11. this rotation being in opposite directions at the two poles
12. motion of the "wandering stars" (planets) including retrograde motion
13. earth-moon centre of gravity orbits
14. eclipses of the sun, moon and planets
15. northern and southern lights
16. meteors, asteroids and comets
17. moons and/or rings around other planets
18. people in the southern hemisphere observe the moon "upside down" relative to those in the northern hemisphere
19. there are certainly other effects that I have missed
There is only one self consistent model/theory that explains all of these observations and that is the present cosmology of our solar system. This does not explain why these objects behave as they do, it only provides a very refined model that accounts for all the observed effects.
Now add into this the experimentally verified non-relativistic laws of motion and of gravity, known as Newtonian or classical mechanics, and we now have the why that explains the model in a near perfect manner. It is so successful that it has enabled us to send people into earth and moon orbits, to the moon itself and return to earth. We have been able to navigate probes to all the planets and beyond. People have stood on our moon and observed our planet rotating in front of them in real time. Any other cosmology finds it necessary to suspend known laws of science, hypothesize supernatural intervention and invoke a conspiracy theory extending over centuries involving tens of millions of people a great many of whom are Christian.
1. tidal effects on earth
2. moon's near side "locked' to earth
3. phases of the moon
4. retardation of the moon's 'rising'
5. seasons of the earth
6. seasonal 24 hour days and nights in the arctic and antarctic
7. coreolis effects on earth
8. Foucault's pendulum
9. precession of the earth's axis
10. apparent daily rotation of the "fixed stars" about the pole star
11. this rotation being in opposite directions at the two poles
12. motion of the "wandering stars" (planets) including retrograde motion
13. earth-moon centre of gravity orbits
14. eclipses of the sun, moon and planets
15. northern and southern lights
16. meteors, asteroids and comets
17. moons and/or rings around other planets
18. people in the southern hemisphere observe the moon "upside down" relative to those in the northern hemisphere
19. there are certainly other effects that I have missed
There is only one self consistent model/theory that explains all of these observations and that is the present cosmology of our solar system. This does not explain why these objects behave as they do, it only provides a very refined model that accounts for all the observed effects.
Now add into this the experimentally verified non-relativistic laws of motion and of gravity, known as Newtonian or classical mechanics, and we now have the why that explains the model in a near perfect manner. It is so successful that it has enabled us to send people into earth and moon orbits, to the moon itself and return to earth. We have been able to navigate probes to all the planets and beyond. People have stood on our moon and observed our planet rotating in front of them in real time. Any other cosmology finds it necessary to suspend known laws of science, hypothesize supernatural intervention and invoke a conspiracy theory extending over centuries involving tens of millions of people a great many of whom are Christian.
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I have already explained that in some detail. See my earlier post.
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There you go thinking for yourself.... perfect... you are correct.
Actually, from our point of observation, the distance it travels will always be 15 degrees. Even if it is changing its speed. This is due to the distance it travels on it's path is different.
Tie a ball to the end of a rope. Fix another one half way down the rope. swing the rope around parallel to the ground. You will observe both balls in perfect line while the outer ball travels farther and faster.
It's all about the point of perspective.
This is not true. The distance to the sun and moon is very short in the FE model and the size difference is not noticeable.
When the sun is in it's smallest circuit, it's light covers the north and center of the flat earth, almost continually.
Where did I say that? The temperature is determined by the amount of daylight hours. Not distance.
You do realize that, on the globe model, supposedly, we are closer to the sun.... or so someone told me.
OK, you lost me here.
Firstly, why IS the moon changing it's circuit, just as the sun.. when, as you said, it has nothing to do with the seasons....
Yet, there it is, following the same path as the sun, changing it's angle to the earth, as the sun does? And, don't forget, it orbits us while we orbit the sun...meanwhile, they travel as if they are both orbiting us.
Secondly, it does not travel in a different direction.. at least not in my area... it consistently travels from east to west, following the same path as the sun... just a little slower. Thus the sun catches it and passes it once a month or close to it. Sometimes the sun goes right behind it, starting at it's left side and leaving on it's right.
This does not explain why something that we orbit travels exactly the same path of something that orbits us. Do you realize the odds of that happening.... especially given their supposedly different sizes and distances?
Of course I do.
Yep, and you can adjust the position of your arm.... you can make your house much bigger, or, much smaller... yet we see the sun and moon exactly the same size everywhere on the earth. To me, that's some coincidence.
Tidal locking... very convenient. If gravity is that strong, why are we not tidal locked to the sun?
Hmm when does the fun start again. Why is this phenomenon not effecting the earth?
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Good question. Finally someone asking a question that I also have about the FE.
This phenomenon is not proof of either model. It's a fact, but both models can easily explain some reason. The state of the earth model is not affected.
Again, the phases of the moon work the same on both models. It's not proof of or contradiction of either.
I'm not even going to get into the belief that the moon is it's own light source as this, also has no indication of the shape of the earth, flat or ball.
Another inconsequential observation. The moon simply moves slower than the sun. Not proof or either model.
Both models have handled this concept equally well. No proof of either model.
I have seen the midnight sun for myself, in the north.. Have not yet seen any proof of it in the south... There are many videos but all are edited.
Lack of this phenomenon in the south would explain why it is the coldest place on earth. Why would it not be similar, in temperature ranges, to the north? We know that it is the length of daylight hours that and the more direct sunlight as the tilt of the earth changes the angle at which the sun hits the surface, that gives our seasons and temperature changes.
Coriolis is a hoax. I have watched several documentaries on military specialists describing long range ballistics. They talk about many variables that affect the accuracy of their respective projectiles... not once do they mention the direction, in relation to the compass, in their calculations and not once did they mention "Coriolis".
They mention, altitude, temperature, wind, humidity, temperature of their ammunition, barrel temp, angle of the shot, size of the projectile, consistency of the explosive in the shell, turns of rifling per foot of barrel length.... but, not once direction in relation to the spin of the earth. Not once.
Not proven to be relative to any rotation of the earth. Sometimes moves backward during eclipses, and, needs constant force to keep it swinging.
Never heard of this. Will have to look this up.
Explained, very well, by both models.
Laughable... all heavenly bodies move east to west... all over the globe. except some planets in retrograde.
Also, explained well by both models.
Not a determinant in the shape of the earth. Explained by both models.
Again, something for me to investigate, not familiar with this concept.
Solar eclipse is simple, in both models.
Lunar eclipse poses a problem for both as sometimes the sun is fully risen while the moon is still eclipsed. Documented by NASA and given very weak explanation.
Not a factor in the shape of the earth. Both can have this phenomenon.
Yes, I agree, good question.
Has nothing to do with the shape of earth.... totally no connection.
Simple optical fact of view point. Easily explained by both models.
OK?
We use all of the physical laws as tools for things on this earth. From magnetism, to pressure, to boiling points....
Not one use of gravity as a method for our benefit... unless it is something simply falling down.
Both models explain much of these and there are many FE concepts that are not explained by the ball earth model
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You’re right, but you’re wrong.
You’re correct that the degrees won’t change, I meant to correct that. But the Sun still has to be traveling at different speeds depending on the circle you have it traveling.
I don’t know what speed you think the Sun is traveling at, but it can’t stay at that speed and maintain a 24 hour day if it doesn’t change speeds. And the Sun doesn’t change speeds, at least not based on the seasons.
Say you have two runners on a track, who can run at the exact same speed. You put on on the right side of the track, farthest from the center, one on the left, closest to the center. They start off neck and neck, and take off, moving at the same speed. Who wins?
The one closest to the center. His track is shorter than the one the other guy is traveling, so he has to travel a shorter distance. The only way the guy on the outside can keep up is by moving slightly faster to compensate for that.
See the problem? In order for what you propose to work, the sun has to keep changing speeds. In order to keep moving at that 15 degrees an hour, it has to moving faster the further it gets away from the center.
It doesn’t.
That doesn’t help you. In fact, it hurts you quite a bit. If they’re small and close, they should appear differently depending on your point on Earth. They don’t.
If I have a basketball in front of me, and I take five steps to the side, I’ll be obviously viewing it at a different angle.
If I have a mountain in front of me and take five steps to the side, I’m also viewing it at a different angle, but not to any noticeable degree.
Exactly how far and big do you think the Moon and Sun are? That would help here. Do you have any idea?
Midnight sun only happens for a couple of weeks. And what about Antarctica?
Nope. The amount of time the Sun isn’t what causes the temperature differences in seasons.
We are, yes. But that’s not what causes the seasons. It has to do with the way light hits different parts of the globe.
Don’t know who told you otherwise.
It doesn’t follow the same path as the sun, don’t know where you get that from. And it goes much slow across the sky.
I don’t know the odds of that, and neither do you. You’d have to observe many other planets with other moons to know that, and I’m not even sure you believe other planets exist.
Your incredulity isn’t an argument for anything.
Also, again, the Moon’s size does vary. It’s why we have annular eclipses.
Because we’re not close enough to it. Mercury is. That’s why I brought up Mercury. I kind of thought you could put two and two together.
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