Rightly dividing some of Hebrews Chapter 10 (Legalists)

DeepWater · May 4, 2019

Grip Docility said:
Galatians is my favorite book. Paul has to call Peter out for disassociating with Gentle Sinners when eating.

Paul then draws a clear line between those under the law and those under grace. He uses colorful analogies that even include an extreme example of “over circumcision”.

Paul’s approach was very direct. He spoke in gentleness, but also severely plain words. Paul was beaten for this. Every word he spoke was to Glory Christ.

I think back on a day, a person I was speaking with, about Grace, said... “Yes, yes, yes, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, It’s all about Jesus, but I’ll trust the words of *human prophets name omitted to keep the post neutral*.

That’s why I appreciate the clarity of @DeepWater ‘s threads.

Some won’t and some will.

If spelling out salvational assurance in Jesus to people that;

“But if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. In their case, the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
2 Corinthians 4:3-4”

- is a bad thing, I would think Paul should be admonished, as well.

I love Galatians, also.

And isn't it interesting that on a "Christian Forum", if you give all the Credit To Jesus for Saving you and Keeping you saved, if you are literally praising the beautiful shed Blood of Jesus The Christ.... you are met with strong strong resistance around here.
And not just on this Forum, my Brother.

blessings,

<dw><

Not David · May 4, 2019

DeepWater said:
I love Galatians, also.

And isn't it interesting that on a "Christian Forum", if you give all the Credit To Jesus for Saving you and Keeping you saved, if you are literally praising the beautiful shed Blood of Jesus The Christ.... you are met with strong strong resistance around here.
And not just on this Forum, my Brother.

blessings,

<dw><

And isn't it interesting that on a "Christian Forum", I am called a legalist because I understand my relationship with God as a... relationship.

DeepWater · May 4, 2019

David Cabrera said:
And isn't it interesting that on a "Christian Forum", I am called a legalist because I understand my relationship with God as a... relationship.

David,

A legalist is a religious person who tries to keep themselves saved, instead of trusting in Christ alone to keep them saved.
This is the exact opposite of OSAS.
So, the person who defines a legalist in the NT and beyond , is the Apostle Paul, who explained that if a believer is trying to maintain their relationship with GOD by their lifestyle, works, 10 commandments - keeping, or enduring to the end.....all of these self righteous works....ect....then this person has replaced Christ with themselves.... as their own savior.

Pauls wrote the letter to the Galatians as a spotlight on Legalists and Legalism.
And if they preach their message of....."yes, Jesus saves, but you have to DO ....also.....to STAY SAVED".... Then Paul said that God's curse is on them and their message.
And he's not kidding.
And the reason that this is such a harsh judgment against the self righteous, is that by being self righteous while also claiming to be saved, this demotes and insults the Blood of Jesus and castigates the Cross of Christ.

"trodding underfoot the blood of Jesus" is both rejecting it, and also replacing it with self righteousness.

Salvation, is a very specific event and effect., and it leaves no room for denying the Blood of Jesus and the Cross of Christ, full credit DUE, as the ONLY Atonement that saves and keeps you saved.
Salvation is Grace, and Grace is Christ on a Cross.
Our works are not involved.
Our lifestyle is not involved.
The 10 Commandments are not involved.
And once a person denies this, and substitutes their self effort, they are putting themselves on the Cross as their own Savior, and God...... won't....... have it. !
Galatians 1:8

Not David · May 4, 2019

DeepWater said:
David,

A legalist is a religious person who tries to keep themselves saved, instead of trusting in Christ alone to keep them saved.
This is the exact opposite of OSAS.
So, the person who defines a legalist in the NT and beyond , is the Apostle Paul, who explained that if a believer is trying to maintain their relationship with GOD by their lifestyle, works, 10 commandments - keeping, or enduring to the end.....all of these self righteous works....ect....then this person has replaced Christ with themselves.... as their own savior.

Pauls wrote the letter to the Galatians as a spotlight on Legalists and Legalism.
And if they preach their message of....."yes, Jesus saves, but you have to DO ....also.....to STAY SAVED".... Then Paul said that God's curse is on them and their message.
And he's not kidding.
And the reason that this is such a harsh judgment against the self righteous, is that by being self righteous while also claiming to be saved, this demotes and insults the Blood of Jesus and castigates the Cross of Christ.

"trodding underfoot the blood of Jesus" is both rejecting it, and also replacing it with self righteousness.

Salvation, is a very specific event and effect., and it leaves no room for denying the Blood of Jesus and the Cross of Christ, full credit DUE, as the ONLY Atonement that saves and keeps you saved.
Salvation is Grace, and Grace is Christ on a Cross.
Our works are not involved.
Our lifestyle is not involved.
The 10 Commandments are not involved.
And once a person denies this, and substitutes their self effort, they are putting themselves on the Cross as their own Savior, and God...... won't....... have it. !
Galatians 1:8

Like Paul saying to "workout your salvation with fear and trembling"? or when he said, "No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize"?

Are you a 5 points Calvinist? If not, then you should check my thread "One cannot believe OSAS without believing in 5 points Calvinism " to see how one cannot believe in OSAS and free will. If you are Calvinist, then I don't have anything to talk about now.

Grip Docility · May 4, 2019

David Cabrera said:
Like Paul saying to "workout your salvation with fear and trembling"? or when he said, "No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize"?

Are you a 5 points Calvinist? If not, then you should check my thread "One cannot believe OSAS without believing in 5 points Calvinism " to see how one cannot believe in OSAS and free will. If you are Calvinist, then I don't have anything to talk about now.

I can guarantee you I’m not a Calvinist. I know this wasn’t to me, but to even suggest what you’re suggesting, is just way too far off to even begin to be accurate.

Your understanding of those verses that you used suggests your contextual understanding is far too removed from their intended meaning to even really back the premise you just made.

For the record, Calvinists don’t tend to like what I say and I indeed believe in eternal security.

I think you’ve got a straw man argument, there.

Free will is real, from my perspective and sincerely, Paul says this (Galatians 2:16-21) and also this (Ephesians 2:15)... this too... (Galatians 4:20-31)

Jesus admonished the Pharisees in Matthew 23. All the verses that you are quoting have that context. To return to one’s vomit is to return to the works of the Law. Only God is Good. Other than Jesus, all Men have fallen short and fall short. That makes since since Jesus is not just a man, but God! God desires honesty above all. If I say I have no sin, I am calling God a liar. We have an Advocate.

Our part in salvation is repentance and confession of guilt, with admission Christ is our only hope. He has the rest covered.

dqhall · May 5, 2019

DeepWater said:
As ive posted many times on this Forum, ....the fact that Legalists (all live in the wrong parts of Hebrews, (Ch 6 & 10) ......Matthew (before the Cross),...... James, and the Old Testament.
They are really quite unacquainted with Paul.
If they were a student of Paul, who said, "be a follower of ME, as i follow Christ".... it would be because they have been taught correct "Pauline Theology".
If they knew anything about Paul, they would know that Jesus took Paul aside, and no other Apostle, and taught him "justification by faith", and 99% of the doctrine of the Church.
So, when you are a student of the NT, you are a student of Paul, and from Paul, you learn "sound doctrine".

If you have not been taught what i just showed you, then you are lost in the theological weeds, and that is why you have no idea about Grace, and can't even talk about it.
You can't even discuss the Blood Atonement, or "justification by Faith".
You will have no idea that Jesus is not only your Righteousness, but He is your redemption, and your sanctification and your justification, BEFORE GOD. .. In the EYES of God.
If you are a legalist, all of this basic "Christianity 101" is Chinese to you.
Its a language you dont speak or comprehend, and you will not be speaking it any time soon, unless you find someone like me to teach you, or you get away from whatever cult, church, or spiritually corrupted people who have led you into the dark..... and find the LIGHT.
As, they will be happy to keep you right there with them in their darkness, for as long as you let them.
Thats a fact, and i say this to you in love.........you need to find a way out of your heresy group.

And to continue.
If you are a legalist, then probably noone ever taught you anything about God's Grace, or How it works, or WHY it operates in the life of a Born Again person, the way it does.
If you are a legalist, you have never been taught this verse..... and this verse is the first verse i teach a new Christian to memorize and LIVE With until they are saturated with what it means.
Hebrews 13:9
This is a verse that the devil will hide from a Legalist.
This verse teaches that you are to establish you HEART....with GRACE.
And what this means, is that you are to come to a deep deep understanding of What Grace is, and How Grace Works......because if you don't, you will probably be led astray from theological soundness, and end up on forums ranting about "commandments" and "law", while you try to convince real believers that they can "lose it".
Is that you?
In other words, if you dont do what Hebrews 13:9 tells you to do, in the beginning of your walk with Christ, you will probably end up as a Galatians 1:8
Thats a fact.

So, i want to help people who can be helped, and teach people who can be taught... (who are not so theologically locked into place by the pride of their self righteousness,) to understand Hebrews, and especially a few verses in Chapters 6 & 10 as these are the satanic goldmine for Legalists. Its their bread and butter from hell. Its their end game circular reasoning prison, that they all use when trying to reduce The Blood Of Christ to "working to stay saved" or "holding onto your falth to save saved" or pretending being born again is temporary, = "you can lose your salvation", they preach and preach.

So, believers.... If you can get this revelation im about to give you, then it will help protect you from worrying about losing your salvation, because many will twist these Hebrew verses im going to rightly divide for you, to try to cause you to believe you can lose you salvation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some rules.
There are a few things you need to know, so that you have the theological groundwork necessary within you to even begin to understand this Book, and Chapters 6 and 10.
And by the way, the book of Hebrews is to be avoided until you have studied much and are truly truly grounded in all of Paul's epistles, so that you become grounded in Grace, and the understanding of "you are the righteousness of God IN CHRIST".
I'm not kidding.

But, lets take a look at this, because, this will help you to at least understand what Chapters 6 and 10 are really all about.

Here is your need to know list. :

First, Hebrews are unsaved Jews.
2nd, Apostles in the NT are saved Jews who are able to do signs and wonders. 2 Corinthians 12:12 And this is important to know, as you will learn, in a bit.
3rd. "Signs".......are for the JEWS. 1 Corinthians 1:22

You have to understand that a spiritual gift, comes from HEAVEN. It is a Heavenly gift, and all Apostles could perform these signs (Heavenly GIFTS) that were for JEWS. 1 Corinthians 1:22

Now, all those facts, are necessary for you to understand before you jump into the Book Of Hebrews.
Also to know...very important..... When an Apostle is writing a letter, he always begins the letter with a greeting. And from these greetings, we "rightly divided" their words to understand who the letter is meant for....as this gives us an understanding of it so that we don't misuse the letter theologically or doctrinally.
And Hebrews, is the most misused Letter in the NT by people who say they are Christians.
AS i told you before......Legalists, LIVE in Hebrews, a letter that is NOT addressed to the CHURCH.
Get that.
Very important for you to realize it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok here we go.

The Book of Hebrews, is not addressed to the Church.
The book of Hebrews, is addressed to HEBREWS...these are UNSAVED JEWS.
This is why the letter is not addressed to "the church".
Now be sure you understand that.....as i keep saying... = very important to understand.

Now, let me show you what happens when an Apostle is dealing with religious (HEBREWS) Jews, who are hateful, hate-filled, and antagonistic.
Lets look at how this all plays out during and after this Apostle is preaching the Gospel to them.
And remember...
This Apostle is showing them "heavenly gifts", 2 Corinthians 12:12 as these unsaved HEBREWS have a right to expect "signs", as that is 1 Corinthians 1:22.
So, this Apostle, does everything He can possibly do, and they still wont have Jesus as their Messiah, and it plays out like this in Hebrews Chapter 6 and Chapter 10.
-
-
In Hebrews 6 and 10

10 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened who have tasted the (heavenly gift)... If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. ""
----------

Now Saint.....Here is how you rightly divided those verses.
And i will use Ch 10 & 6, where unsaved Jews (Hebrews) are being shown the signs of an apostle (tasted the heavenly gift), heard the Gospel, and still refused their Messiah.

There is a JEWISH Apostle, (perhaps Paul) who is preaching the Message of the Cross to Hebrews (jews) who are not saved. They are rejecting the message, rejecting Jesus as Messiah, and this Apostle is warning them of the consequence of Rejecting Christ.
He ESPECIALLY explains in detail their rend result for rejecting Christ, when a "Signs of an Apostle" is happening in front of them.... 2nd Corinthians 12:12 (Tasted the Heavenly GIFT).... This apostle has Gifts of the Spirit and he has just let them see the signs, as "Signs are for the JEWS". 1 Corinthians 1:22... So, here you have a Jewish Apostle, preaching to Lost JEWs (Hebrews) and He is giving them the works....>Not just the Gospel, but "Signs of an Apostle", 2nd Corinthians 12:12... this is THEIR "tasting the Heavenly Gift", this is, them LITERALLY SEEING SIGNS....THE MIRACULOUS.. these Jews are seeing this... THE Spiritual Gifts this Apostle has, which come from HEAVEN...and these jews are STILL DETERMINED TO reject their Messiah, while seeing this JEWISH Apostle's SIGNS., and hearing him preach the Truth to them.

This means, these are hard hearted hate filled religious Jews (Hebrews)....and that is why this Apostle rips into them...with....""" you are trodding underfoot the blood""... He is telling them....You are no different then your Father's (elders) who KNEW Christ was Messiah, and they spit on His Blood that was shed for them.... and they stood there at the foot of the Cross and told Jesus...."Come on down Jesus, you can do it right, .. isn't that right, MR MESSIAH"?

That is what is going on here readers........and This APOSTLE tells them.......If you do this, as you are doing.....you have no way to be SAVED....as you have "sinned willfully" away your SALVATION.......= you have willfully rejected the ONLY ONE Who can save you... You are willfully choosing to be a CHRIST REJECTOR and ""there is no more sacrifice for you SIN", if you do this.........as Hebrews 6 explains to them... and to us.

So, that is Hebrews 10 & 6. ..... That is a JEWISH Apostle, using signs, dealing with unsaved HEBREWS - Religious JEWS who have the same Hatred in their hearts that was in the hearts of the HEBREWS who wanted this......."crucify him......crucify him.......crucify him">... And Pilate told them that Jesus's BLOOD was on THEIR Hands, as he washed his in that bowl, and then turned THEIR MESSIAH over to the whips and The CROSS.
These unsaved Jews in the book of HEBREWS are also "trodding underfoot" AGAIN, the blood of Jesus.....same as before, when their Elders did it, with Jesus hanging on a Cross as proof of their Christ Rejection.
This Apostle, is comparing these HEBREWS Christ rejection, as exactly the same as the Hebrews who originally "trod underfoot the blood of Jesus", and stood there glaring their hatred at Him, while Christ hung dying.

blessings,

<dw><

I like Paul too. He argued that Gentiles should not be circumcised or made to follow the law in its entirety. Jesus got trouble from those who wanted strict enforcement of the Sabbath law as he healed during a Sabbath. Another time he and his disciples were gleaning grain during a Sabbath as they were hungry and the Torah allowed the poor to glean from the corners of the fields when they were hungry. Some of the Jews wanted to stone Jesus for Sabbath violations.

I do not agree that Paul is 99% of the doctrine of the church, nor the negative tone of the Hebrews. I do not remember the Jews asked for Jesus' execution as much as I remember Jesus was Jewish as well as eleven disciples who followed Jesus without selling him out to his enemies. Paul went to the Jewish diaspora and went into synagogues to teach Jews, converts and perhaps Gentile friends of the Jews. Paul did not write Matthew's account of Jesus', "Sermon on the Mount," that I find invaluable for my salvation. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John did not mention Paul in their Gospels. Luke wrote about him in Acts. Luke is mentioned in one of Paul's letters as a friend of Paul's.

Jesus should be admired more than Paul.

DeepWater · May 5, 2019

David Cabrera said:
Like Paul saying to "workout your salvation with fear and trembling"?

Exactly, David.

A legalist will always come on a Christian forum, and teach that "working out your salvation"...... is """""saving yourself, by works, lifestyle, commandment keeping, enduring to the end, and hanging unto your faith"."""""
All the "you do it" religious stuff <>they believe<> keeps them saved.
The problem with anti-cross legalism theology, = the reason you are working it out, is because Christ already provided it as a FINISHED Blood Atonement.
The legalist, can never understand this...because they are not looking to Christ for salvation, which is why they only talk about self effort (self righteousness) to save themselves, on forums like this one.

"legalism".

DeepWater · May 5, 2019

dqhall said:
I do not agree that Paul is 99% of the doctrine of the church,

Jesus should be admired more than Paul.

Paul not only was personally given by Jesus , to give to the ("Church") 99% of the "doctrine" that we are to believe, .. but he also wrote about 70% of the entire New Testament.
Peter said that Paul's letters are equal to Scripture.....he equated them as equal to the word of God, exactly the same as the Torah, (OT), as at that time there was no NT.

And the reason you follow Paul, is because He's the best example of a true disciple of Christ, who has ever lived or will ever live. So, we would obviously want to emulate the best Christian, = Paul. And he also told YOU to do it.
1 Corinthians 11:1

And Jesus should not only be admired, He should be trusted and worshiped.

Not David · May 5, 2019

DeepWater said:
Exactly, David.

A legalist will always come on a Christian forum, and teach that "working out your salvation"...... is """""saving yourself, by works, lifestyle, commandment keeping, enduring to the end, and hanging unto your faith"."""""
All the "you do it" religious stuff <>they believe<> keeps them saved.
The problem with anti-cross legalism theology, = the reason you are working it out, is because Christ already provided it as a FINISHED Blood Atonement.
The legalist, can never understand this...because they are not looking to Christ for salvation, which is why they only talk about self effort (self righteousness) to save themselves, on forums like this one.

"legalism".

Except you never answered the verses I provided, you know, I won't waste my time, it seems you are deeply involved with your anti-legalist crusade that you won't hear any rational argument. Adios!

Grip Docility · May 5, 2019

David Cabrera said:
Like Paul saying to "workout your salvation with fear and trembling"? or when he said, "No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize"?

Are you a 5 points Calvinist? If not, then you should check my thread "One cannot believe OSAS without believing in 5 points Calvinism " to see how one cannot believe in OSAS and free will. If you are Calvinist, then I don't have anything to talk about now.

Contextual address of the verses you cited...

First address... “workout your salvation with fear and trembling”... Found in Philippians 2

In immediate textual context...

“Make your own attitude that of Christ Jesus, who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage. Instead He emptied Himself by assuming the form of a slave, taking on the likeness of men. And when He had come as a man in His external form, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death— even to death on a cross. For this reason God highly exalted Him and gave Him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow — of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth — and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. So then, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God who is working in you, enabling you both to desire and to work out His good purpose. Do everything without grumbling and arguing, so that you may be blameless and pure, children of God who are faultless in a crooked and perverted generation, among whom you shine like stars in the world. Hold firmly to the message of life. Then I can boast in the day of Christ that I didn’t run or labor for nothing.
Philippians 2:5-16 - Bible Gateway passage: Philippians 2:5-16 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

Philippians is Paul’s Epistle to the “church of brotherly Love”

It also contains these words...

“But everything that was a gain to me, I have considered to be a loss because of Christ. More than that, I also consider everything to be a loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. Because of Him I have suffered the loss of all things and consider them filth, so that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own from the law, but one that is through faith in Christ —the righteousness from God based on faith. My goal is to know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, assuming that I will somehow reach the resurrection from among the dead.”
Philippians 3:7-11 - Bible Gateway passage: Philippians 3:7-11 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

This again draws the Law out of the equation as it is written in full Pauline Epistle context to allow you to know, with absolute certainty, that the “work” Paul speaks of isn’t carnal work, but Spiritual focus and clinging to Jesus for the cross and resurrection.

Thus, John 6:63 is amplified, as well as a nod towards ....

“Jesus answered, “I assure you: You are looking for Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate the loaves and were filled. 27 Don’t work for the food that perishes but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal of approval on Him.” “What can we do to perform the works of God?” they asked. Jesus replied, “This is the work of God—that you believe in the One He has sent.”
John 6:26-29 - Bible Gateway passage: John 6:26-29 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

This means clinging to the gospel is imperative! Jesus even states this...
37 Everyone the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me: that I should lose none of those He has given Me but should raise them up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father: that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 6:37-40 - Bible Gateway passage: John 6:37-40 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

Before the warcry of Calvinism gets cried out... Jesus said...

Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 14:6 - Bible Gateway passage: John 14:6 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

So we see the person comes of their own volition to the Father, through Jesus. Thus, Eternal security is contingent on properly coming to the Father. However... if a person properly comes to the Father in Faith and Humility with intensions of Love, then maliciously turns back to ways of Law and Self... we see this verse taking place...

“They have eyes full of adultery and are always looking for sin. They seduce unstable people and have hearts trained in greed. Children under a curse! They have gone astray by abandoning the straight path and have followed the path of Balaam, the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness but received a rebuke for his transgression: A donkey that could not talk spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet’s irrationality. These people are springs without water, mists driven by a whirlwind. The gloom of darkness has been reserved for them. For by uttering boastful, empty words, they seduce, with fleshly desires and debauchery, people who have barely escaped from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption, since people are enslaved to whatever defeats them. For if, having escaped the world’s impurity through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in these things and defeated, the last state is worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy command delivered to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb: A dog returns to its own vomit, and, “a sow, after washing itself, wallows in the mud.”
2 Peter 2:14-22 - Bible Gateway passage: 2 Peter 2:14-22 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

Where does this leave us in relation to your Philippians verse?

It leaves us aware that pride can turn a person from the path of God’s love and cause them to violate the royal decree of Mercy (James) through carnal judgment of others through precepts of the Stone Law (Deuteronomy 31:26) and bring them from grace, back to Law and self righteous standards that trample the mercy of Christ.

(Indeed, if you keep the royal law prescribed in the Scripture, Love your neighbor as yourself, you are doing well. But if you show favoritism, you commit sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever keeps the entire law, yet fails in one point, is guilty of breaking it all. For He who said, Do not commit adultery, also said, Do not murder. So if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you are a lawbreaker. Speak and act as those who will be judged by the law of freedom. For judgment is without mercy to the one who hasn’t shown mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
James 2:8-13 - Bible Gateway passage: James 2:8-13 - Holman Christian Standard Bible)

That’s a short use of full context and is exhaustive. Your next verse will be addressed at another time... due to length of posts when employing proper Exegesis.

I’ll Exegete the second verse regardless of outcome and your presence or lack of reply.

DeepWater · May 5, 2019

Grip Docility said:
Contextual address of the verses you cited...

First address... “workout your salvation with fear and trembling”... Found in Philippians 2

In immediate textual context...

“Make your own attitude that of Christ Jesus, who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage. Instead He emptied Himself by assuming the form of a slave, taking on the likeness of men. And when He had come as a man in His external form, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death— even to death on a cross. For this reason God highly exalted Him and gave Him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow — of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth — and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. So then, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God who is working in you, enabling you both to desire and to work out His good purpose. Do everything without grumbling and arguing, so that you may be blameless and pure, children of God who are faultless in a crooked and perverted generation, among whom you shine like stars in the world. Hold firmly to the message of life. Then I can boast in the day of Christ that I didn’t run or labor for nothing.
Philippians 2:5-16 - Bible Gateway passage: Philippians 2:5-16 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

Philippians is Paul’s Epistle to the “church of brotherly Love”

It also contains these words...

“But everything that was a gain to me, I have considered to be a loss because of Christ. More than that, I also consider everything to be a loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. Because of Him I have suffered the loss of all things and consider them filth, so that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own from the law, but one that is through faith in Christ —the righteousness from God based on faith. My goal is to know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, assuming that I will somehow reach the resurrection from among the dead.”
Philippians 3:7-11 - Bible Gateway passage: Philippians 3:7-11 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

This again draws the Law out of the equation as it is written in full Pauline Epistle context to allow you to know, with absolute certainty, that the “work” Paul speaks of isn’t carnal work, but Spiritual focus and clinging to Jesus for the cross and resurrection.

Thus, John 6:63 is amplified, as well as a nod towards ....

“Jesus answered, “I assure you: You are looking for Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate the loaves and were filled. 27 Don’t work for the food that perishes but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal of approval on Him.” “What can we do to perform the works of God?” they asked. Jesus replied, “This is the work of God—that you believe in the One He has sent.”
John 6:26-29 - Bible Gateway passage: John 6:26-29 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

This means clinging to the gospel is imperative! Jesus even states this...
37 Everyone the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me: that I should lose none of those He has given Me but should raise them up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father: that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 6:37-40 - Bible Gateway passage: John 6:37-40 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

Before the warcry of Calvinism gets cried out... Jesus said...

Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 14:6 - Bible Gateway passage: John 14:6 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

So we see the person comes of their own valuation to the Father, through Jesus. Thus, Eternal security is contingent on properly coming to the Father. However... if a person properly comes to the Father in Faith and Humility with intensions of Love, then maliciously turns back to ways of Law and Self... we see this verse taking place...

“They have eyes full of adultery and are always looking for sin. They seduce unstable people and have hearts trained in greed. Children under a curse! They have gone astray by abandoning the straight path and have followed the path of Balaam, the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness but received a rebuke for his transgression: A donkey that could not talk spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet’s irrationality. These people are springs without water, mists driven by a whirlwind. The gloom of darkness has been reserved for them. For by uttering boastful, empty words, they seduce, with fleshly desires and debauchery, people who have barely escaped from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption, since people are enslaved to whatever defeats them. For if, having escaped the world’s impurity through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in these things and defeated, the last state is worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy command delivered to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb: A dog returns to its own vomit, and, “a sow, after washing itself, wallows in the mud.”
2 Peter 2:14-22 - Bible Gateway passage: 2 Peter 2:14-22 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

Where does this leave us in relation to your Philippians verse?

It leaves us aware that pride can turn a person from the path of God’s love and cause them to violate the royal decree of Mercy (James) through carnal judgment of others through precepts of the Stone Law (Deuteronomy 31:26) and bring them from grace, back to Law and self righteous standards that trample the mercy of Christ.

(Indeed, if you keep the royal law prescribed in the Scripture, Love your neighbor as yourself, you are doing well. But if you show favoritism, you commit sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever keeps the entire law, yet fails in one point, is guilty of breaking it all. For He who said, Do not commit adultery, also said, Do not murder. So if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you are a lawbreaker. Speak and act as those who will be judged by the law of freedom. For judgment is without mercy to the one who hasn’t shown mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
James 2:8-13 - Bible Gateway passage: James 2:8-13 - Holman Christian Standard Bible)

That’s a short use of full context and is exhaustive. Your next verse will be addressed at another time... due to length of posts when employing proper Exegesis.

I’ll Exegete the second verse regardless of outcome and your presence or lack of reply.

I appreciate that you can cut and paste a lot of Legalism.
The issue with it all you have cut and pasted, is that you've not realized that sometimes an Apostle is not talking to believer's in the verses you are quoting that someone else wrote that you pasted.
This is the same issue with everyone who runs to Hebrews to try to prove that Unsaved Hebrews are Christians by twisting Chapters 6 and 10.
Its the same issue you have with what you are cutting and pastings.

This is the same issue that some people have with John's final letter.
They are always trying to jam Christians into verses where there aren't any.

If you ever have time...
Do a deep study of Romans 4:8.
Find out WHY God does not hold a BELIEVER accountable for their SIN, in eternity.
"God does not IMPUTE our sin to us". (God does not charge us with it) "blessed is the man.." . This is all the born again.
Find out why that is, Grip D.
So, if you will discover why this is, then you will understand the finished work of the Cross.

Grip Docility · May 5, 2019

DeepWater said:
I appreciate that you can cut and paste a lot of Legalism.
The issue with it all you have cut and pasted, is that you've not realized that sometimes an Apostle is not talking to believer's in the verses you are quoting that someone else wrote that you pasted.
This is the same issue with everyone who runs to Hebrews to try to prove that Unsaved Hebrews are Christians by twisting Chapters 6 and 10.
Its the same issue you have with what you are cutting and pastings.

This is the same issue that some people have with John's final letter.
They are always trying to jam Christians into verses where there aren't any.

David, If you ever have time...
Do a deep study of Romans 4:8.
Find out WHY God does not hold a BELIEVER accountable for their SIN, in eternity.
"God does not IMPUTE our sin to us". (God does not charge us with it) "blessed is the man.." . This is all the born again.
Find out why that is, David.
So, if you will discover why this is, then you will understand the finished work of the Cross.

This is where I have to be sincere beyond my desire. We have salvation by freewill choice to accept Grace.

No height, nor depth, nor any... well you know...

Grace can be resisted, cast aside or thrown down by beating the masters fellow servants.

I disagree that I posted unconnected scripture. I took an hour to carefully connect a minimum of what could have been utilized. I’ll say this, if you believe mankind has salvation offered in genuine freewill style, which I do, you have to be honest with yourself about the implications.

I would hope you read not just the scripture but my opinions I linked each passage with to understand I didn’t just scripture Wall gibberish. What ever the case, I digress.

I’ve kept these cards to my chest for too long. I despise legalism, but I also have to allow scripture to conform myself, instead of attempt to conform scripture to myself.

Salvation is by grace, alone and the believer is freed from the Law... I haven’t contested that once... but the Gift is a choice to be received in Humility.

I am far from a Calvinist and I indeed believe in eternal security. I will never cast aside grace, beat fellow humanity, as Christ died for ALL... but without a doubt, if men could see God face to face 2000 years ago and reject Him... it is clear that men can see the glorious beauty of the Gospel, accept it, then cast it aside.

I’ve never revealed this before, in fear of discouraging fellow believers, or searching agnostics... but I have to be true to God, instead of attempt to overcomplicate the simple truth of the Gospel.

Salvation can be cast aside by a persons desire to do so. Angels have fallen, men have accepted the Gospel, then in turn abused it for personal gain...

Legalism is horrible and to be counted as apostasy...

But Christ made it clear in John 6:66 what can happen.

I will silence my witness now, in matters of your threads, which I indeed believe are valuable.

It’s been a pleasure. Also, my name isn’t Dave.

All of Christ’s blessings to you, brother.

DeepWater · May 5, 2019

Grip Docility said:
and reject Him... it is clear that men can see the glorious beauty of the Gospel, accept it, then cast it aside.

I’ve never revealed this before, in fear of discouraging fellow believers, or searching agnostics... but I have to be true to God, instead of attempt to overcomplicate the simple truth of the Gospel.

Salvation can be cast aside by a persons desire to do so.

You're name is not David, and my name is not DW, so, we are agreed.
I have so many posts to respond to, and so.....my mistake.....(whatever your name actually is...)
Its not uncommon for me to have "90" posts waiting for me, ever few hrs, and lots of PM's.
Teaching Grace is a busy but lovely way to spend my time.
I do miss some posts, but i try to keep up.
Perhaps if this was the only forum i was on, or if i had no other Ministry or life except to sit and type about the Blood Atonement.......but, i do have a Ministry and a home Life, and im not only on this Forum.
So, all readers, if i never got back to you, its not because i didn't appreciate that you reached out to me ither with carnal sarcasm, or in sincerity, really wanting to learn more about God's Salvation that is OSAS.
Really.
I appreciate you all.
And if you want to PM me, you should.
Sometimes its a better idea to PM me then to ask a real question that might cause a Legalist here to abuse you with their " oh so funny" sarcasm.
Feel free.

So....
Also, it is true that we can cast our faith aside, but its not true that God will take away our New Birth.
We could tell our mother that we dont want to be a part of the family, but, .... undoing our earthly birth because of our desire to do so, wont change this one...............also.
Born is Born, no matter how the Legalists would seek to undo it by twisting the NT.
You'll never read a verse in the NT, were its explained or even insinuated that you can "fall out of Christ' or that " Christ in you USE TO BE, Your hope of Glory, right until He left you."
("Jesus said : I will never leave you, or forsake you")
OSAS
or, " You were once seated in heavenly places "in Christ", but God cast you out because you didnt keep the 10 Commandments last week and forgot to confess it".
And when it says...>"As Christ IS< so are we on this EARTH"< won't ever become..."As Christ is, so were you until you committed the unpardonable sin, so, off to hell with you."

So, Legalism tries in vain to (theologically) undo the Blood Atonement, even in Paul's day.
It didn't work then, it won't work tomorrow.
Same as now.
"nothing new under the sun".

OSAS isn't an idea...its simply the reality that Jesus saves and Jesus keeps you saved.
"Redemption".
"Blood Atonement".
"The Grace of God"
OSAS
Its all exactly the same.

Grip Docility · May 5, 2019

DeepWater said:
You're name is not David, and my name is not DW, so, we are agreed.
I have so many posts to respond to, and so.....my mistake.....(whatever your name actually is...)
Its not uncommon for me to have "90" posts waiting for me, ever few hrs, and lots of PM's.
Teaching Grace is a busy but lovely way to spend my time.
I do miss some posts, but i try to keep up.
Perhaps if this was the only forum i was on, or if i had no other Ministry or life except to sit and type about the Blood Atonement.......but, i do have a Ministry and a home Life, and im not only on this Forum.
So, all readers, if i never got back to you, its not because i didn't appreciate that you reached out to me ither with carnal sarcasm, or in sincerity, really wanting to learn more about God's Salvation that is OSAS.
Really.
I appreciate you all.
And if you want to PM me, you should.
Sometimes its a better idea to PM me then to ask a real question that might cause a Legalist here to abuse you with their " oh so funny" sarcasm.
Feel free.

So....
Also, it is true that we can cast our faith aside, but its not true that God will take away our New Birth.
We could tell our mother that we dont want to be a part of the family, but, .... undoing our earthly birth because of our desire to do so, wont change this one...............also.
Born is Born, no matter how the Legalists would seek to undo it by twisting the NT.
You'll never read a verse in the NT, were its explained or even insinuated that you can "fall out of Christ' or that " Christ in you USE TO BE, Your hope of Glory, right until he left"
or, " You were once seated in heavenly places "in Christ", but God cast you out because you didnt keep the 10 Commandments last week and forgot to confess it".
And when it says...>"As Christ IS< so are we on this EARTH"< won't ever become..."As Christ is, so were you until you committed the unpardonable sin, so, off to hell with you and everyone that looks like you."

So, Legalism tries in vain to (theologically) undo the Blood Atonement, even in Paul's day.
It didn't work then, it won't work tomorrow.
Same as now.
"nothing new under the sun".

OSAS isn't an idea...its simply the reality that Jesus saves and Jesus keeps you saved.
"Redemption".
"Blood Atonement".
"The Grace of God"
OSAS
Its all exactly the same.

I’ve been agreeing with you at every turn. I think you’re so entrenched in battling legalism, you are failing to read everything written to you and just assuming everyone who scripture walls is attempting to contest your posit.

Be careful, that you don’t become so entrenched, you lose the personal touch.

Keep on keeping on and all encouragement and blessings to you.

I have been so entrenched before I became tangled in all return posts becoming jumbled together.

I’ll take it that you may have thought you were replying to another poster.

Grip

DeepWater · May 5, 2019

Grip Docility said:
I’ve been agreeing with you at every turn. I think you’re so entrenched in battling legalism, you are failing to read everything written to you and just assuming everyone who scripture walls is attempting to contest your posit.

Be careful, that you don’t become so entrenched, you lose the personal touch.

Keep on keeping on and all encouragement and blessings to you.

I have been so entrenched before I became tangled in all return posts becoming jumbled together.

I’ll take it that you may have thought you were replying to another poster.

Grip

Thank you.

I always log out when i leave this site.
Then, i receive "mail" updates, = new posts.
When i log back in, the site does not direct me to the new posts, it directs me to the 1st post and if the Thread has 13 pages, then....................time to try to catch up.
Ive written many Threads in the last 10 days, and i'd like to say i can remember what response page i was on, when i last left the site, per Thread.... but, thats not quite how it works out.
What i am able to do, is recognize instantly what level of Legalist im dealing with, how evolved into theological darkness they are = what scriptures they will always use to promote legalism, at this time in their life.

Legalism creates carnal mean spirited Christians, and it also divides and attempts to harm those who are not lost inside this heresy.

The Blood of Jesus, is very beautiful.
It's God's Blood, and It's power to continually make a born again believer as Righteous as God Himself, never fails, and never ends.
Its security, once applied through Faith as a GIFT, is eternal.

Grip Docility · May 5, 2019

DeepWater said:
Thank you.

I always log out when i leave this site.
Then, i receive "mail" updates, = new posts.
When i log back in, the site does not direct me to the new posts, it directs me to the 1st post and if the Thread has 13 pages, then....................time to try to catch up.
Ive written many Threads in the last 10 days, and i'd like to say i can remember what response page i was on, when i last left the site, per Thread.... but, thats not quite how it works out.
What i am able to do, is recognize instantly what level of Legalist im dealing with, how evolved into theological darkness they are = what scriptures they will always use to promote legalism, at this time in their life.

Legalism creates carnal mean spirited Christians, and it also divides and attempts to harm those who are not lost inside this heresy.

The Blood of Jesus, is very beautiful.
It's God's Blood, and It's power to continually make a born again believer as Righteous as God Himself, never fails, and never ends.
Its security, once applied through Faith as a GIFT, is eternal.

Paul had the same battle...

Christ bless and keep you eternally, and keep you full of the good gospel Galatians fruit that Christ may convince many, through you.

I fixed the quotation to your final version... in my response.

@DeepWater

DeepWater · May 5, 2019

Grip Docility said:
Paul had the same battle...

Christ bless and keep you eternally, and keep you full of the good gospel Galatians fruit that Christ may convince many, through you.

Here is this in case you (readers) like to watch videos.
You might want to enlarge the screen for this one.... and set the resolution to 720p.
Enjoy.
-
-

Ken Rank · May 5, 2019

DeepWater said:
So, no, it was not all the same, as you are claiming, but it fact, it was years and years before even Peter knew what Paul was preaching.

The same spirit that inspired Paul to write, inspired James, and Matthew, and Ezra, and Moses. Paul doesn't trump any of the others... we reconcile them all together and to say one author rises above the others is border line blasphemy.

dqhall · May 6, 2019

DeepWater said:
Paul not only was personally given by Jesus , to give to the ("Church") 99% of the "doctrine" that we are to believe, .. but he also wrote about 70% of the entire New Testament.
Peter said that Paul's letters are equal to Scripture.....he equated them as equal to the word of God, exactly the same as the Torah, (OT), as at that time there was no NT.

And the reason you follow Paul, is because He's the best example of a true disciple of Christ, who has ever lived or will ever live. So, we would obviously want to emulate the best Christian, = Paul. And he also told YOU to do it.
1 Corinthians 11:1

And Jesus should not only be admired, He should be trusted and worshiped.

Paul once confessed that he was the chiefest of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15). I should follow God and Christ more than exalt Paul who commanded women should be silent and not talk in church. I think women may speak in Bible studies. A woman is not without knowledge. She is allowed to vote too. You can see she voted in England and Germany where women lead. While I can appreciate Paul's inspiration whether it was after he listening to the apostles or by direct revelation from God, I looked to the Gospels before studying Paul's letters.

I remember that Paul did not always quote the Gospels in his letters. Parts of his letters were taken up with fundraising efforts. I attribute much of the New Testament to the credit of God and Christ along with the 11 disciples. Was Matthew more than one percent of church doctrine? Paul did not write the Gospel According to John either. Paul did not write we should be harmless as doves. Paul set us free from the imposition of an imperfect law, yet we need law and order, not anarchy.

Grip Docility · May 6, 2019

Ken Rank said:
The same spirit that inspired Paul to write, inspired James, and Matthew, and Ezra, and Moses. Paul doesn't trump any of the others... we reconcile them all together and to say one author rises above the others is border line blasphemy.

What does Deuteronomy 31:26 say to you?

Rightly dividing some of Hebrews Chapter 10 (Legalists)

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