Dating and Sex

delete as getting off topic

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The years of groundwork before lowers the potential for years of resentment after resulting from a rushed courting and feeling compelled to stick it out.

it sounds like the best place for you to meet someone then is at a gym as you'll meet someone who also has fitness as a high priority

if not a member at one now, find one where singles go
the one we belonged to was family oriented so it was families with kids

Emosoundlogic said:

Your story is very valid. Your pain is very real. Your process is logical. I would probably have done the same.

I would love nothing more than to spend 14 hours with a woman doing something like that. I'd probably show her my meal prep that takes 2 hours every sunday, play with my cat, take her for a walk across the street at the trails, and we could share a meal or two together.

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Trust me... there are many women out there who would see this as the dream they never dared to dream. Your task is locating her. As you've described in your posts, it's a tall challenge. Also, even on some of the Christian dating sites people are only separated, not divorced. I feel for you with that. Hang with it, though!! The worst errand is the one you never tried, right?

Emosoundlogic said:

Where I am, they call that clingy, needy, and immature... Exposing who I truly am? I had a first date with a girl where I told her exactly who I was, what I wanted, and what I was offering in return. She told me she didn't feel special because I was willing to give that to any woman I found appealing, and she needed to feel special, not to mention it was too desperate for her... Keep in mind she spent the prior 10 years sleeping around New York and literally told me that, but now wanted to find a real man that was Christian...

What the ....

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That was the cheapest divorce you never had to have!! I'm thankful for your sake she showcased who she was quickly. But don't let it deter you from doing it again. Try to think pragmatically while you lay it out there and do it with an eye to assessing HER at the same time you are allowing her to asses you.

Romans 8 said:

I would recommend visiting overseas. The Philippines has a mostly Christian population, and the women there are absolutely lovely. They are looking for marriage, speak English well (most), and most are willing to move. Philippines has the lowest divorce rate of any country in the world based on their divorce laws. I have met many happy men who've married filipinas.

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So have I--as well as a lot of unhappy marriages. And I've also spent a few years in the Philippines (my daughter was born there).

What I've seen is that Filipinas brought to the United States become American women real fast (with all that entails). So marrying a Filipina is not a way out.

Emosoundlogic said:

So, the bible is pretty clear when it comes to pre-marital sex. It's a sin. Why, that can be debated, but that's not something I want to do. I personally don't have an issue with the idea of abstinence until marriage, there's a pretty good amount of non-biblical proof to support it anyway.

My issue is simple... I think the western, modern church, has failed singles.

Paul makes it quite clear that it is better to marry than to burn with desire. However, in that day, a man such as myself, could literally buy a wife. I make very good money.

My issue is, people in general, especially women (it seems to me) want to date for long extended periods of time before they're even willing to consider marriage.

I am 33 years old. I had it rough getting started, let's just say I was sexualized at a very young age without even knowing what it was, and then given unrestricted internet access that you can imagine created problems for me.

I've been a Christian since I was like 5, and I've wrestled with this issue since I was like 16. Not trying to dig up years and years of therapy, but I'm not a typical guy, I have a lot of damage in this area.

Now days if I want to get married, assuming I can even find a woman that wants to date me (you'd be surprised how much of a struggle it is to find one), I am looking at months of "dating" before we are in a "relationship" followed by most likely years, and then finally we get married and I am finally allowed to have sex.

I personally don't think that's how it was meant to be, and I think we unduly suffer because of it. I think the church has abandoned us in this area.

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I think your trying to rationalize sex before marriage. Men have more access to women today then any other time in history, its quality that you sound like your looking for. You wont find that on Tinder or the other 100 apps on your phone. Go to church, get into a group, you'd be surprised how quick you can get to know someone and you are already starting from common ground. Keep strong man the world is against you in the lust department seems like everything is aimed at lowering you to your base desires. Common interest, good conversation, and values is the way to go everything else will fall into place.

nonaeroterraqueous said:

I was just talking to a Filipino about that very subject. It's a farce. They don't have as many divorces, because they've replaced them with "annulments." It's the same thing, with different terminology.

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Oh I see. You spoke with a Filipino and so you now know that truth. lol.

Annulments make up about 20% of the separations in Philippines because divorce is illegal. But this rate is still less than half of the west. The culture does not encourage divorce like here in the west.

RDKirk said:

So have I--as well as a lot of unhappy marriages. And I've also spent a few years in the Philippines (my daughter was born there).

What I've seen is that Filipinas brought to the United States become American women real fast (with all that entails). So marrying a Filipina is not a way out.

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It's not bomb proof. Especially when some men are hunting for women more than a decade younger. There is no "way out". Just better odds.

When people make these type of threads about their frustration with the opposite sex they already know why they are struggling. The reasons come down to two categories, the things you can fix and the things you can't do anything about. Write down your reasons and formulate a plan. If things are such that you have a problem you can't fix then you have to work with what you have and the possible mates that result because of those limitations.

If they are that bad and you can't do anything about them, then you can simply just not be in a relationship and find something else that can give your life enough meaning to make it worthwhile. A small minority of people fall into this category though and I think you have to be honest with yourself about why you are single, look internally. Blaming the church is not going to help you. You don't get what you want by changing the way the world works, but by becoming something that can get you what you want.

Emosoundlogic said:

I personally feel that, again this is going to sound like an attack, but I feel that women have unrealistic expectations. I'm suppose to show her I'm not a man to be feared, but I still have to command respect and not lot her walk on me... The dichotomies that men are expected to "balance" are unreal.

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Very angsty.

Emosoundlogic said:

Again, I personally would spend most of my Saturday and Sunday with a woman if she didn't count that against me as having no life of my own and being clingy / co-dependent.

I am an absolute beast, I'll be the first one in line of danger no issue there at all, I know how to handle myself and have no problems with that. There's not a lot of "yuck" situations I have to deal with in my current life, aside from some cat accidents, or spiders (which I viciously destroy because I think they're just evil lol), but I'd handle that too...

I moved my entire apartment by myself in the rain, I'm not afraid to do hard work and my moto might as well be perseverance.

I think I'm exactly the type of guy most women with traditional values say they want, they just don't give me a chance it seems, or are too intimidated by my intensity.

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You sound a lot like my husband. He is truly better than the most amazing man I could have dared to dream about. We both say that we didn't think marriage could possibly be like this.

What type of ministries are you involved in? You might be more likely to find a person for you if you spend your time in ministry niches rather than at singles events. For example, when a natural disaster happens and a bunch of mission groups go to the location to help rebuild things. A lot of single women go on these trips, too. Or becoming involved in domestic violence shelters and helping women who are in a tough spot with manly stuff that needs to be addressed. Think of some ministry that would attract other ministering souls that could make a good wife for you.

You might find that women who would be a better match for you are too busy doing stuff to come to the singles meetups. A man like you needs a woman who of substance who isn't spending her time aimlessly fluttering around in singles groups.

Emosoundlogic said:

I am 33 years old. I had it rough getting started, let's just say I was sexualized at a very young age without even knowing what it was, and then given unrestricted internet access that you can imagine created problems for me.

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Correct. Our society VASTLY overemphasizes sex.

The amount of mentions of sex, visual images of sex, and messaging around sex is at level 20 in a culture where fifty years ago it was at level 1.

Emosoundlogic said:

I've been a Christian since I was like 5, and I've wrestled with this issue since I was like 16. Not trying to dig up years and years of therapy, but I'm not a typical guy, I have a lot of damage in this area.

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Totally empathize. But this is the world polluting your mind, not a failing on the Church. Had you grown up without the world constantly jamming the idea of sex down your mind, you would not have obsessive thoughts in this area. You would have normal sexual urges but it would not weigh on your mind so.

Emosoundlogic said:

Now days if I want to get married, assuming I can even find a woman that wants to date me (you'd be surprised how much of a struggle it is to find one), I am looking at months of "dating" before we are in a "relationship" followed by most likely years, and then finally we get married and I am finally allowed to have sex. I personally don't think that's how it was meant to be, and I think we unduly suffer because of it. I think the church has abandoned us in this area.

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And what if you marry someone and they don't want to have sex as much as you?

What if you marry someone and a month later they are in a horrible accident and are paralyzed from the neck down?

I think what's actually going on is that Christian life does not emphasize sex as more important than nearly everything else. The world does. If you adapt the world's view, then the Christian view is always going to seem burdensome because it's denying you the hedonistic pleasures that the world insists is your birthright. You are constantly being fed the message that unless you are having lots of sex with lots of people, you are somehow not measuring up to the world, your self-worth is lower, and you are missing out.

I think you need to evaluate those messages.

In this age of online dating, I think finding Christian singles to date is easier than ever, actually. I don't think finding the RIGHT person is any easier, but then it's NEVER been easy To some extent, it's a numbers game. If I was single, I wouldn't hesitate to use online services to find someone, being completely upfront about your faith and expectations. That's what I did 10 years ago and I'm still married to the same woman.

Here's a portion of an article that offers some great logic on how/where to look for someone of high compatibility.

So, if you like to be active, you want to be sure to marry an active wife, for example. Where to meet active women? Hiking clubs? Skiing clubs? Biking clubs? Does your town have sports activities for adults? I wouldn't focus exclusively on Christian groups because there are a lot of Christians in groups that enjoy good, clean fun, so you will likely find a few in these types of groups anyway. An exception might be a Christian singles cruise? It sounds like you can afford one...

From the article:
While we are on the subject of compatibility, however, there are five criterion that I recommend to those who are looking for a marriage partner. The reason I have picked these five, which are usually not found in most tests of compatibility, is that incompatibility in any of these areas make the Policy of Joint Agreement particularly difficult to implement. As a psychologist, I save marriages by showing spouses how to change their behavior to create a fulfilling marriage. But the categories that I will share with you now are traits that even trained psychologists have great difficulty trying to change. And so when you date, look for compatibility in these areas.

1. Intelligence. You and he should be roughly equivalent in intelligence, within about 15 IQ points. Without having to take an IQ test, you can usually figure that out by comparing grades in school, although men are notorious underachievers in high school. College grades are a better measure of intelligence for both men and women. The quality of your conversation is another good indicator of compatible intelligence. Men who are stimulating to talk to are usually in your league intellectually. But if there is a large gap between you in IQ, both of you will tend to be bored by your conversation. The one with the highest IQ will find the conversation to be superficial, and the one with the lowest IQ won't be able to keep up. There is also a tendency of someone with a higher IQ to disrespect the judgments of the one with the lower IQ, and that's an absolute relationship killer. Respect is essential in marriage regardless of the quality of an opinion. If you both enjoy talking to each other for hours at a time, and you respect each other's ideas, you pass the test.

2. Energy. You should marry someone roughly equivalent to you in energy. If one of you lays around watching TV while the other scurries about and can't sit still, it's probably a bad match. The reason energy is an important determiner of compatibility is that so many of your lifestyle pre-dispositions will depend on your energy. Leisure time activities and sexual interest are particularly sensitive to the amount of energy you have. People high in energy enjoy activities that burn that energy, even after work, while those with low energy levels would find such activities to be exhausting. And regarding sex, the more energy a person has, the more sex he or she tends to need. Since leisure activities and sex are two of the best ways to deposit love units after marriage, incompatibility in these areas can make it very difficult for a couple to stay in love.

3. Social Interest. If one of you is socially outgoing and the other is an introvert, that difference can make the planning of social activities very difficult. The Policy of Joint Agreement dictates that you don't do anything unless you can both agree, and in marriages of extroverts to introverts, their area of mutual social comfort is very narrow. The extrovert will not be able to get to know as many people as he or she would like because the introvert hates meeting new people. And the introvert will be constantly challenged to tread into the terrifying waters of introductions. Yet, I am very much opposed to spouses going their separate ways after marriage (one goes to a party and the other stays home), so the social interest difference require very creative solutions to keep them together yet make their social lives happy for both of them.

4. Cultural Background. Culture determines a host of personal sensitivities. Take Christmas, for example. In the American culture, Christmas is usually a big deal for most people. But imagine growing up in a family where every year Christmas was celebrated with zeal, only to discover after marriage that you cannot celebrate Christmas at all. The Policy of Joint Agreement dictates that you don't do anything unless you can both enthusiastically agree and because the person you married comes from a family that finds Christmas offensive, you do not celebrate it. Even if your spouse were to give you permission to celebrate Christmas, his background will still make such a celebration very uncomfortable to him. From my perspective, The Policy of Joint Agreement would rule Christmas out until a way is found to celebrate it with mutual enthusiasm.

Cultural background does not only dictate sensitivities, but it also dictates certain skills in meeting emotional needs. In some cultures, outward displays of affection are discouraged, and yet you may need that from the person you married. To meet your emotional need, he must not only go against his cultural training, but he must learn to do something that he was never taught.

Sometimes when two people are in love, they feel they can overcome cultural barriers. But that's usually because their relationship has been rather brief. They have not yet had to wrestle with some of the conflicts that culture imposes on them. I counseled one couple who had fallen in love, yet one could only speak Spanish and the other could only speak English. Granted they could eventually learn each other's language, but with that would come a host of cultural differences that might be much more difficult to overcome. Time eventually proved to both of them that their relationship was not meant to be.

5. Values. Moral values usually dictate how we behave. The Policy of Joint Agreement and the Policy of Radical Honesty are moral values that I encourage all married couples to adopt because they create and sustain love. But even when these two important values are agreed to at the time of marriage, conflicts with other moral values can make the creation of a compatible lifestyle very difficult to achieve. Getting back to our Christmas example, it's a cultural difference that makes a spouse unskilled in knowing how to celebrate Christmas. But if you marry an Orthodox Jew, it's more than skill that will be a problem. He will probably be deeply offended by such a celebration. And that offense comes from his moral convictions, not just his cultural background. A discussion of values is always a good idea when on a date, because if you find your values to be very divergent, it will make it difficult for you to agree on a lifestyle that you enthusiastically share.

A question often asked in a compatibility test is "Would you be willing to give up your religion to please your spouse?" It's not really a fair question, because it usually doesn't come to that drastic measure. But the point is important, and I would rephrase the question a little differently. I would ask, "Do you have any beliefs that would prevent you from following the Policy of Joint Agreement?" That is actually more to the point. Is there some belief that is so important to you that you would be willing to let your spouse suffer rather that give it up? If so, you should be certain that your spouse shares the same belief.

Full article: Choosing the Right One to Marry - Letter #2 (Marriage Builders®,...