The KJVO Myth Has NO Scriptural support!

robycop3 · Mar 30, 2019

Seems the KJVOs have no valid response to the FACT that the KJVO myth has NO Scriptural support & is therefore false. But we Freedom Readers have known that fact for a long time, eh?

HeartenedHeart · Apr 2, 2019

Dave-W said:
Most accurate of its day perhaps; but not so currently.

But ANY translation will NEVER hold a candle to the original. EVER.

I have a few questions, if you will please. I am curious.

What do you mean by "original"? Original 'languages' (ie Hebrew, Syriac, koine Greek)? or 'original' material upon which the text was written, papyrii, lambskin, etc?, or something else?

You seem to be advocating that the language of the inspired men who wrote down the texts that we have, are superior to any translation, into any other language, of those said texts, is that a correct understanding of your statement?

If so, may I ask you which is the superior, the translated text of Luke (in Acts) of Paul's encounter with the risen Jesus, in Acts 26:14, who spoke to Paul in the Hebrew tongue, yet translated into koine Greek in the NT book of Acts? The same question would go for Paul, when speaking in Acts 22:1-22, for he spoke in Hebrew, and the audience heard in Hebrew, but what we have is only a translation of that speech into koine Greek. We do not have the original language version (in Hebrew) anywhere recorded, correct?

Are you advocating that I need 'original' languages to best understand what God wants me to know, in other words, do I have to be able to know and read old Hebrew, Syriac and koine Greek?

Many other such examples (such as Joseph in Gen. 42:23 speaking unto his Hebrew brethren by an interpreter, and was in Egyptian, being translated into Hebrew and then written down for us, or as at Pentecost, Peter isn't speaking koine Greek, since those present are devout Jews from all over, though Greeks were included, and what of false Artaxerxes (false Smerdis) letter in Ezra 4 given and written in the Syriac language, and translated for us into Hebrew, into English) could be pointed to in asking this question, and so I was hoping you could expound on what you meant, a little more please.

Dave-W · Apr 3, 2019

HeartenedHeart said:
I have a few questions, if you will please. I am curious.

Original languages. Nothing ever gets translated at 100%, even by closely related languages. The farther they are apart, the worse it gets.

What structure is there in English to cover the 4 different levels of meaning in Hebrew, (or the 7 in Arabic)?

It is not JUST the language of the men who wrote it down, but the cultural understanding shared by the authors and the original audience that did not need to be written down.

And no, you do not need to personally be a scholar of ancient Hebrew or Koine Greek. But you should avail yourself of the teachers who ARE such scholars.

ViaCrucis · Apr 3, 2019

HeartenedHeart said:
I have a few questions, if you will please. I am curious.

What do you mean by "original"? Original 'languages' (ie Hebrew, Syriac, koine Greek)? or 'original' material upon which the text was written, papyrii, lambskin, etc?, or something else?

You seem to be advocating that the language of the inspired men who wrote down the texts that we have, are superior to any translation, into any other language, of those said texts, is that a correct understanding of your statement?

If so, may I ask you which is the superior, the translated text of Luke (in Acts) of Paul's encounter with the risen Jesus, in Acts 26:14, who spoke to Paul in the Hebrew tongue, yet translated into koine Greek in the NT book of Acts? The same question would go for Paul, when speaking in Acts 22:1-22, for he spoke in Hebrew, and the audience heard in Hebrew, but what we have is only a translation of that speech into koine Greek. We do not have the original language version (in Hebrew) anywhere recorded, correct?

Are you advocating that I need 'original' languages to best understand what God wants me to know, in other words, do I have to be able to know and read old Hebrew, Syriac and koine Greek?

Many other such examples (such as Joseph in Gen. 42:23 speaking unto his Hebrew brethren by an interpreter, and was in Egyptian, being translated into Hebrew and then written down for us, or as at Pentecost, Peter isn't speaking koine Greek, since those present are devout Jews from all over, though Greeks were included, and what of false Artaxerxes (false Smerdis) letter in Ezra 4 given and written in the Syriac language, and translated for us into Hebrew, into English) could be pointed to in asking this question, and so I was hoping you could expound on what you meant, a little more please.

Just a point of clarification, the language of [Palestinian] Jews in the 1st century was Aramaic, not Hebrew.

-CryptoLutheran

createdtoworship · Apr 3, 2019

HeartenedHeart said:
I have a few questions, if you will please. I am curious.

What do you mean by "original"? Original 'languages' (ie Hebrew, Syriac, koine Greek)? or 'original' material upon which the text was written, papyrii, lambskin, etc?, or something else?

You seem to be advocating that the language of the inspired men who wrote down the texts that we have, are superior to any translation, into any other language, of those said texts, is that a correct understanding of your statement?

If so, may I ask you which is the superior, the translated text of Luke (in Acts) of Paul's encounter with the risen Jesus, in Acts 26:14, who spoke to Paul in the Hebrew tongue, yet translated into koine Greek in the NT book of Acts? The same question would go for Paul, when speaking in Acts 22:1-22, for he spoke in Hebrew, and the audience heard in Hebrew, but what we have is only a translation of that speech into koine Greek. We do not have the original language version (in Hebrew) anywhere recorded, correct?

Are you advocating that I need 'original' languages to best understand what God wants me to know, in other words, do I have to be able to know and read old Hebrew, Syriac and koine Greek?

Many other such examples (such as Joseph in Gen. 42:23 speaking unto his Hebrew brethren by an interpreter, and was in Egyptian, being translated into Hebrew and then written down for us, or as at Pentecost, Peter isn't speaking koine Greek, since those present are devout Jews from all over, though Greeks were included, and what of false Artaxerxes (false Smerdis) letter in Ezra 4 given and written in the Syriac language, and translated for us into Hebrew, into English) could be pointed to in asking this question, and so I was hoping you could expound on what you meant, a little more please.

Dave-W said:
Original languages. Nothing ever gets translated at 100%, even by closely related languages. The farther they are apart, the worse it gets.

What structure is there in English to cover the 4 different levels of meaning in Hebrew, (or the 7 in Arabic)?

It is not JUST the language of the men who wrote it down, but the cultural understanding shared by the authors and the original audience that did not need to be written down.

And no, you do not need to personally be a scholar of ancient Hebrew or Koine Greek. But you should avail yourself of the teachers who ARE such scholars.

the original autographs are what is inspired. Even if it was not the same language as was common during the day. God inspired the writings not the writers. So even if the writer did not even speak greek or hebrew, God guided them in a way that was inspired and perfect. But I am sure they were bilingual most of them during the time of Christ, I think it was aramaic and greek.

robycop3 · Apr 4, 2019

ViaCrucis said:
Just a point of clarification, the language of [Palestinian] Jews in the 1st century was Aramaic, not Hebrew.

-CryptoLutheran

I'd venture to say Paul was fluent in Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek, & perhaps Latin. And I believe Jesus, being God, could use any language necessary. And we see at the "first pentecost" there were many different languages used by Jews from different parts of the world. But I believe that, in Judea at that time, Aramaic was the commonest language.

createdtoworship · Apr 4, 2019

robycop3 said:
I'd venture to say Paul was fluent in Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek, & perhaps Latin. And I believe Jesus, being God, could use any language necessary. And we see at the "first pentecost" there were many different languages used by Jews from different parts of the world. But I believe that, in Judea at that time, Aramaic was the commonest language.

only because he was educated.

robycop3 · Apr 5, 2019

gradyll said:
only because he was educated.

The only hint of Jesus' earthly education we have is that Scripture calls Him a carpenter, as His earthly stepfather was.(Mark 6:3)

And at age 12, He astounded the teachers in the temple with His knowledge. (Luke 2) I believe He retained His full Divine knowledge while He was here as a man; thus, He could understand & speak (or write) in any language. We see no Scriptural evidence of anyone speaking to Him in a language He didn't understand.

Ttalkkugjil · Apr 5, 2019

robycop3 said:
There's simply NO Scriptural support for the KJVO myth. Therefore, it CANNOT be true.

Now, while one may PREFER the KJV (or any other one version), telling others that the KJV (or any other one version) is the ONLY valid English Bible translation is telling a lie.

Why pick on KJVO? Because that man-made myth has created a whole genre of literature, full of falsehoods, playing right into Satan's hands by causing strife and dissent among & between congregations.

**THE KJVO MYTH - PHONY AS A FORD CORVETTE !**

What about WYCO?

HeartenedHeart · Apr 5, 2019

gradyll said:
... God inspired the writings not the writers. ...

The writers (the men) were inspired of God, for they are God's pen-men, not His pen, and thus it is not the words themselves but the men who were inspired of God (see below for evidence from scripture). Inspiration acts not on the man's words or his expressions, but inspiration (of God) works upon the man (men) himself (themselves).

Please consider:

We know that Jeremiah was the prophet. He was inspired. Yet Baruch wrote the words [Jeremiah 36:4]. Who then was worked upon/in by the Holy Ghost? The man Jeremiah, the man Baruch or the paper and pen?

We know that Paul was inspired, even a prophet and Apostle, however, if we look at the book/epistle to the Romans, we find that Paul didn't actually write the letter, but Tertius did [Romans 16:22].

Therefore, what was inspired, the man Paul, the man Tertius, the paper and pen?

We know that Solomon was inspired, but also that he collected and collated the inspired sayings of others into a single source [Ecclesiastes 12:9].

We know that Caiaphas was inspired, but he didn't even know it, though being high priest in a year [John 11:49-51].

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Job 33:14 For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not.

Job 33:15 In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;

Job 33:16 Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction,

Nehemiah 9:20 Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, and withheldest not thy manna from their mouth, and gavest them water for their thirst.

Isaiah 30:21 And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

Ezekiel 11:5 And the Spirit of the LORD fell upon me, and said unto me, Speak; Thus saith the LORD; Thus have ye said, O house of Israel: for I know the things that come into your mind, every one of them.

Daniel 4:8 But at the last Daniel came in before me, whose name was Belteshazzar, according to the name of my god, and in whom is the spirit of the holy gods: and before him I told the dream, saying,

Daniel 4:9 O Belteshazzar, master of the magicians, because I know that the spirit of the holy gods is in thee, and no secret troubleth thee, tell me the visions of my dream that I have seen, and the interpretation thereof.

Daniel 4:18 This dream I king Nebuchadnezzar have seen. Now thou, O Belteshazzar, declare the interpretation thereof, forasmuch as all the wise men of my kingdom are not able to make known unto me the interpretation: but thou art able; for the spirit of the holy gods is in thee.

Daniel 5:11 There is a man in thy kingdom, in whom is the spirit of the holy gods; and in the days of thy father light and understanding and wisdom, like the wisdom of the gods, was found in him; whom the king Nebuchadnezzar thy father, the king, I say, thy father, made master of the magicians, astrologers, Chaldeans, and soothsayers;

Daniel 5:14 I have even heard of thee, that the spirit of the gods is in thee, and that light and understanding and excellent wisdom is found in thee.

The Holy Spirit worked upon and in Daniel. Daniel, the man, was inspired. He then wrote.

Micah 3:8 But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin.

Zechariah 4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

1 Corinthians 7:40 But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.

Paul was inspired, and then did he not write down what he did, is it now scripture?

1 Corinthians 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

Was not Solomon inspired?

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Who was the Spirit speaking to, inspiring? that it was then later written down by the inspired man?

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

It is the men who are inspired of/by God, and thus the scriptures come through such holy men in their writing, by their having been inspired of/by God to write.

1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

1 Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

HeartenedHeart · Apr 5, 2019

gradyll said:
the original autographs ...

All just material and ink, all long gone. People have made an idol of material and ink, but it is nothing.

The men were inspired, and I have (right now, in English, in the King James Bible) what God preserved (Psa. 12:6-7; Mat. 24:35; Mar. 13:31; Luk. 21:33; Deut. 8:3; Mat. 4:4; Luk. 4:4; Jhn. 12:48; Psa. 119:89).

Even the sapphire tables of stone originally given to Moses, is broken to pieces (Exo. 32:19; Deut. 9:17), but God preserved His words.

The king cut up the original autograph in the days of Jeremiah with a penknife and threw it into the fire (Jer. 36:23). And also in the days of Jeremiah, another original autograph was thrown into the Euphrates by command of God, also long gone (Jer. 51:63).

God does not place the emphasis on original autograph's, but on His promise to preserve the words given. His word would remain forever, not the original materials, and in fact, all the material on this earth is going to burn up, and only that which will come out of it, are people (character), with the word (His Law, the Ten Commandments) written upon the heart.

HeartenedHeart · Apr 5, 2019

robycop3 said:
The only hint of Jesus' earthly education we have is that Scripture calls Him a carpenter, as His earthly stepfather was.(Mark 6:3)

And at age 12, He astounded the teachers in the temple with His knowledge. (Luke 2) I believe He retained His full Divine knowledge while He was here as a man; thus, He could understand & speak (or write) in any language. We see no Scriptural evidence of anyone speaking to Him in a language He didn't understand.

Consider carefully, please, unless you would give an answer that is like unto the Muslim answer, where Jesus would speak from the womb and from the cradle "Divine knowledge":

Luk. 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

Study Phil. 2 carefully. Then understand that Jesus came as a 'babe' (Luk. 2:12).

Heb. 5:13 - For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

1 Pet. 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Heb. 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Then see the Baptism at the Jordan, where He was then given the fulness of the Holy Ghost, Jhn. 3:34; Luk. 4:1,14-19.

If you study the 4 Gospels carefully, you will see, that Jesus learned at the knees of His earthly mother and earthly step-father, being subject unto them.

HeartenedHeart · Apr 5, 2019

ViaCrucis said:
Just a point of clarification, the language of [Palestinian] Jews in the 1st century was Aramaic, not Hebrew.

-CryptoLutheran

I don't buy into 'catholic' myths (and the corruptions of the Peshitta, and its interpolations by others), I go by the scripture, for it is Truth:

Joh. 5:2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.

Joh. 5:2 GNT TR εστιν δε εν τοις ιεροσολυμοις επι τη προβατικη κολυμβηθρα η επιλεγομενη εβραιστι βηθεσδα πεντε στοας εχουσα

Act. 21:40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,

Act. 21:40 GNT TR επιτρεψαντος δε αυτου ο παυλος εστως επι των αναβαθμων κατεσεισεν τη χειρι τω λαω πολλης δε σιγης γενομενης προσεφωνησεν τη εβραιδι διαλεκτω λεγων

Act. 22:2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)

Act. 22:2 GNT TR ακουσαντες δε οτι τη εβραιδι διαλεκτω προσεφωνει αυτοις μαλλον παρεσχον ησυχιαν και φησιν

Act. 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Act. 26:14 GNT TR παντων δε καταπεσοντων ημων εις την γην ηκουσα φωνην λαλουσαν προς με και λεγουσαν τη εβραιδι διαλεκτω σαουλ σαουλ τι με διωκεις σκληρον σοι προς κεντρα λακτιζειν

Rev. 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Rev. 9:11 GNT TR και εχουσιν επ αυτων βασιλεα τον αγγελον της αβυσσου ονομα αυτω εβραιστι αβαδδων και εν τη ελληνικη ονομα εχει απολλυων

Rev. 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Rev. 16:16 GNT TR και συνηγαγεν αυτους εις τον τοπον τον καλουμενον εβραιστι αρμαγεδδων

We know what "ebraisti" means, "Hebrew", for Paul said:

Php. 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Php. 3:5 περιτομη οκταημερος εκ γενους ισραηλ φυλης βενιαμιν εβραιος εξ εβραιων κατα νομον φαρισαιος

Paul spoke more languages than all of them (1 Cor. 14:18), including yourself, no doubt, and he would know Hebrew from Aramaic, right?

Notice again, the three main languages of the time (and nothing about Aramaic):

Joh. 19:20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.

Joh. 19:20 GNT TR τουτον ουν τον τιτλον πολλοι ανεγνωσαν των ιουδαιων οτι εγγυς ην της πολεως ο τοπος οπου εσταυρωθη ο ιησους και ην γεγραμμενον εβραιστι ελληνιστι

Luk. 23:38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

Luk. 23:38 ην δε και επιγραφη γεγραμμενη επ αυτω γραμμασιν ελληνικοις και ρωμαικοις και εβραικοις ουτος εστιν ο βασιλευς των ιουδαιων

Again even the name of the place:

Joh. 19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:

Joh. 19:17 και βασταζων τον σταυρον αυτου εξηλθεν εις τον λεγομενον κρανιου τοπον ος λεγεται εβραιστι γολγοθα

The Seat of Judgment:

Joh. 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.

Joh. 19:13 ο ουν πιλατος ακουσας τουτον τον λογον ηγαγεν εξω τον ιησουν και εκαθισεν επι του βηματος εις τοπον λεγομενον λιθοστρωτον εβραιστι δε γαββαθα

The common language was the "hebrew" language:

Joh. 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

Show me one time in the NT koine Greek, where the phrase "in the Aramaic/Syriac tongue" was used? (I didn't ask for an Aramaic word.)

Isa. 36:11 Then said Eliakim and Shebna and Joah unto Rabshakeh, Speak, I pray thee, unto thy servants in the Syrian language; for we understand it: and speak not to us in the Jews' language, in the ears of the people that are on the wall.

Isa. 36:11 HOT Translit. waYomer el'yäqiym w'shev'nä w'yôäch el-rav-shäqëh DaBer-nä el-ávädeykhä árämiyt Kiy shom'iym ánäch'nû w'al-T'daBër ëlëynû y'hûdiyt B'äz'nëy hääm ásher al-hachômäh

Isa. 36:11 so-called LXX καὶ εἶπεν πρὸς αὐτὸν Ελιακιμ καὶ Σομνας καὶ Ιωαχ Λάλησον πρὸς τοὺς παῖδάς σου Συριστί, ἀκούομεν γὰρ ἡμεῖς, καὶ μὴ λάλει πρὸς ἡμᾶς Ιουδαϊτί· καὶ ἵνα τί λαλεῖς εἰς τὰ ὦτα τῶν ἀνθρώπων τῶν ἐπὶ τῷ τείχει;

Again:

Dan. 2:4 Then spake the Chaldeans to the king in Syriack, O king, live for ever: tell thy servants the dream, and we will shew the interpretation.

Dan. 2:4 Hot Translit. 2:4 way'daB'rû haKas'Diym laMelekh' árämiyt mal'Kä l'äl'miyn chéyiy émar chel'mä *l'av'Dayikh' [l'av'däkh'] ûfish'rä n'chaûë

Dan 2:4 καὶ ἐλάλησαν οἱ Χαλδαῖοι τῷ βασιλεῖ Συριστί Βασιλεῦ, εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας ζῆθι· σὺ εἰπὸν τὸ ἐνύπνιον τοῖς παισίν σου, καὶ τὴν σύγκρισιν ἀναγγελοῦμεν.

"Εβραιστι" unequivocally means "Hebrew." (of Eber) Not "Συριστι", which means "Syriac/Aramaic" (of Aram).

Consider - Eloi, Eloi Lama Sabachthani

createdtoworship · Apr 5, 2019

robycop3 said:
The only hint of Jesus' earthly education we have is that Scripture calls Him a carpenter, as His earthly stepfather was.(Mark 6:3)

And at age 12, He astounded the teachers in the temple with His knowledge. (Luke 2) I believe He retained His full Divine knowledge while He was here as a man; thus, He could understand & speak (or write) in any language. We see no Scriptural evidence of anyone speaking to Him in a language He didn't understand.

no, you were talking about paul. Paul was educated at the top schools in Jerusalem. Jesus in order to be God, must have been all knowing. But there are scriptures that indicate that Jesus didn't know certain things, but I assume that was his humanity speaking there.

kiwimac · Apr 5, 2019

HeartenedHeart said:
I don't buy into 'catholic' myths (and the corruptions of the Peshitta, and its interpolations by others), I go by the scripture, for it is Truth:

Joh. 5:2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.

Joh. 5:2 GNT TR εστιν δε εν τοις ιεροσολυμοις επι τη προβατικη κολυμβηθρα η επιλεγομενη εβραιστι βηθεσδα πεντε στοας εχουσα

Act. 21:40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,

Act. 21:40 GNT TR επιτρεψαντος δε αυτου ο παυλος εστως επι των αναβαθμων κατεσεισεν τη χειρι τω λαω πολλης δε σιγης γενομενης προσεφωνησεν τη εβραιδι διαλεκτω λεγων

Act. 22:2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)

Act. 22:2 GNT TR ακουσαντες δε οτι τη εβραιδι διαλεκτω προσεφωνει αυτοις μαλλον παρεσχον ησυχιαν και φησιν

Act. 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Act. 26:14 GNT TR παντων δε καταπεσοντων ημων εις την γην ηκουσα φωνην λαλουσαν προς με και λεγουσαν τη εβραιδι διαλεκτω σαουλ σαουλ τι με διωκεις σκληρον σοι προς κεντρα λακτιζειν

Rev. 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Rev. 9:11 GNT TR και εχουσιν επ αυτων βασιλεα τον αγγελον της αβυσσου ονομα αυτω εβραιστι αβαδδων και εν τη ελληνικη ονομα εχει απολλυων

Rev. 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Rev. 16:16 GNT TR και συνηγαγεν αυτους εις τον τοπον τον καλουμενον εβραιστι αρμαγεδδων

We know what "ebraisti" means, "Hebrew", for Paul said:

Php. 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Php. 3:5 περιτομη οκταημερος εκ γενους ισραηλ φυλης βενιαμιν εβραιος εξ εβραιων κατα νομον φαρισαιος

Paul spoke more languages than all of them (1 Cor. 14:18), including yourself, no doubt, and he would know Hebrew from Aramaic, right?

Notice again, the three main languages of the time (and nothing about Aramaic):

Joh. 19:20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.

Joh. 19:20 GNT TR τουτον ουν τον τιτλον πολλοι ανεγνωσαν των ιουδαιων οτι εγγυς ην της πολεως ο τοπος οπου εσταυρωθη ο ιησους και ην γεγραμμενον εβραιστι ελληνιστι

Luk. 23:38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

Luk. 23:38 ην δε και επιγραφη γεγραμμενη επ αυτω γραμμασιν ελληνικοις και ρωμαικοις και εβραικοις ουτος εστιν ο βασιλευς των ιουδαιων

Again even the name of the place:

Joh. 19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:

Joh. 19:17 και βασταζων τον σταυρον αυτου εξηλθεν εις τον λεγομενον κρανιου τοπον ος λεγεται εβραιστι γολγοθα

The Seat of Judgment:

Joh. 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.

Joh. 19:13 ο ουν πιλατος ακουσας τουτον τον λογον ηγαγεν εξω τον ιησουν και εκαθισεν επι του βηματος εις τοπον λεγομενον λιθοστρωτον εβραιστι δε γαββαθα

The common language was the "hebrew" language:

Joh. 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

Show me one time in the NT koine Greek, where the phrase "in the Aramaic/Syriac tongue" was used? (I didn't ask for an Aramaic word.)

Isa. 36:11 Then said Eliakim and Shebna and Joah unto Rabshakeh, Speak, I pray thee, unto thy servants in the Syrian language; for we understand it: and speak not to us in the Jews' language, in the ears of the people that are on the wall.

Isa. 36:11 HOT Translit. waYomer el'yäqiym w'shev'nä w'yôäch el-rav-shäqëh DaBer-nä el-ávädeykhä árämiyt Kiy shom'iym ánäch'nû w'al-T'daBër ëlëynû y'hûdiyt B'äz'nëy hääm ásher al-hachômäh

Isa. 36:11 so-called LXX καὶ εἶπεν πρὸς αὐτὸν Ελιακιμ καὶ Σομνας καὶ Ιωαχ Λάλησον πρὸς τοὺς παῖδάς σου Συριστί, ἀκούομεν γὰρ ἡμεῖς, καὶ μὴ λάλει πρὸς ἡμᾶς Ιουδαϊτί· καὶ ἵνα τί λαλεῖς εἰς τὰ ὦτα τῶν ἀνθρώπων τῶν ἐπὶ τῷ τείχει;

Again:

Dan. 2:4 Then spake the Chaldeans to the king in Syriack, O king, live for ever: tell thy servants the dream, and we will shew the interpretation.

Dan. 2:4 Hot Translit. 2:4 way'daB'rû haKas'Diym laMelekh' árämiyt mal'Kä l'äl'miyn chéyiy émar chel'mä *l'av'Dayikh' [l'av'däkh'] ûfish'rä n'chaûë

Dan 2:4 καὶ ἐλάλησαν οἱ Χαλδαῖοι τῷ βασιλεῖ Συριστί Βασιλεῦ, εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας ζῆθι· σὺ εἰπὸν τὸ ἐνύπνιον τοῖς παισίν σου, καὶ τὴν σύγκρισιν ἀναγγελοῦμεν.

"Εβραιστι" unequivocally means "Hebrew." (of Eber) Not "Συριστι", which means "Syriac/Aramaic" (of Aram).

Consider - Eloi, Eloi Lama Sabachthani

kiwimac · Apr 5, 2019

It is not a 'catholic' myth that the Hebrew people spoke Aramaic in the 1stC.

robycop3 · Apr 6, 2019

Seems we're getting away from discussing the fact that the KJVO myth has no Scriptural support & is therefore false. KJVOs just don't wanna face up to that unpleasant fact that nollies their myth.

The KJVO myth is an invention of MEN, influenced unknowingly by Satan. While Satan cannot take away anyone's salvation, he can still cause strife & dissension among Christians, thus hindering their spreading the Gospel, & the KJVO myth is one of his tools for doing that.

HeartenedHeart · Apr 8, 2019

James Murphy said:
I haven't run into anything objectionable in the ESV.

What would you define as 'objectionable'?

Could you show me what your ESV translates in Matthew 12:47?

The English Standard Version (ESV)

Genesis 49:10 English Standard Version (ESV)

10 The scepter shall not depart from Judah,
nor the ruler's staff from between his feet,
until tribute comes to him;a]">[a]
and to him shall be the obedience of the peoples.

It just removed a reference to the Messiah, "Shiloh", which is what the Hebrew actually says:

Gen. 49:10 lo-yäšûr shëve† miyhûdäh ûm'choqëq miBëyn rag'läyw ad Kiy-yävo *shiyloh [shiylô] w'lô yiQ'hat aMiym

Gen. 49:10 לא־יסור שׁבט מיהודה ומחקק מבין רגליו עד כי־יבא שׁילה ולו יקהת עמים׃

In the New Testament, the RSV and the ESV are missing the following whole verses. Matthew 12:47 (though the NASB, NIV have it, but omit or bracket the others) Matthew 17:21; 18:11; 23:14; Mark 7:16; 9:44, 46; 11:26; 15:18; most of Luke 9:55-56; all of Luke 17:36; 23:17; John 5:4, Acts 8:37; 15:34; 24:7; 28:29; Romans 16:24, and most of 1 John 5:7.

createdtoworship · Apr 8, 2019

HeartenedHeart said:
What would you define as 'objectionable'?

Could you show me what your ESV translates in Matthew 12:47?

The English Standard Version (ESV)

Genesis 49:10 English Standard Version (ESV)

10 The scepter shall not depart from Judah,
nor the ruler's staff from between his feet,
until tribute comes to him;a]">[a]
and to him shall be the obedience of the peoples.

It just removed a reference to the Messiah, "Shiloh", which is what the Hebrew actually says:

Gen. 49:10 lo-yäšûr shëve† miyhûdäh ûm'choqëq miBëyn rag'läyw ad Kiy-yävo *shiyloh [shiylô] w'lô yiQ'hat aMiym

Gen. 49:10 לא־יסור שׁבט מיהודה ומחקק מבין רגליו עד כי־יבא שׁילה ולו יקהת עמים׃

In the New Testament, the RSV and the ESV are missing the following whole verses. Matthew 12:47 (though the NASB, NIV have it, but omit or bracket the others) Matthew 17:21; 18:11; 23:14; Mark 7:16; 9:44, 46; 11:26; 15:18; most of Luke 9:55-56; all of Luke 17:36; 23:17; John 5:4, Acts 8:37; 15:34; 24:7; 28:29; Romans 16:24, and most of 1 John 5:7.

morning star was something that Jesus was called twice in the new testament.

HeartenedHeart · Apr 8, 2019

gradyll said:
View attachment 254259
morning star was something that Jesus was called twice in the new testament.

Indeed, and if one carefully reads the NT, it will be seen that satan tried to convince Jesus that He (Jesus) was the fallen angel in the wilderness and now satan simply tries to convince men of it.

The old serpent, has counterfeited the miracles, even by multiplying bread, but it is moldly bread.

The KJVO Myth Has NO Scriptural support!

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