Seems the KJVOs have no valid response to the FACT that the KJVO myth has NO Scriptural support & is therefore false. But we Freedom Readers have known that fact for a long time, eh?
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Most accurate of its day perhaps; but not so currently.
But ANY translation will NEVER hold a candle to the original. EVER.
Original languages. Nothing ever gets translated at 100%, even by closely related languages. The farther they are apart, the worse it gets.I have a few questions, if you will please. I am curious.
I have a few questions, if you will please. I am curious.
What do you mean by "original"? Original 'languages' (ie Hebrew, Syriac, koine Greek)? or 'original' material upon which the text was written, papyrii, lambskin, etc?, or something else?
You seem to be advocating that the language of the inspired men who wrote down the texts that we have, are superior to any translation, into any other language, of those said texts, is that a correct understanding of your statement?
If so, may I ask you which is the superior, the translated text of Luke (in Acts) of Paul's encounter with the risen Jesus, in Acts 26:14, who spoke to Paul in the Hebrew tongue, yet translated into koine Greek in the NT book of Acts? The same question would go for Paul, when speaking in Acts 22:1-22, for he spoke in Hebrew, and the audience heard in Hebrew, but what we have is only a translation of that speech into koine Greek. We do not have the original language version (in Hebrew) anywhere recorded, correct?
Are you advocating that I need 'original' languages to best understand what God wants me to know, in other words, do I have to be able to know and read old Hebrew, Syriac and koine Greek?
Many other such examples (such as Joseph in Gen. 42:23 speaking unto his Hebrew brethren by an interpreter, and was in Egyptian, being translated into Hebrew and then written down for us, or as at Pentecost, Peter isn't speaking koine Greek, since those present are devout Jews from all over, though Greeks were included, and what of false Artaxerxes (false Smerdis) letter in Ezra 4 given and written in the Syriac language, and translated for us into Hebrew, into English) could be pointed to in asking this question, and so I was hoping you could expound on what you meant, a little more please.
I have a few questions, if you will please. I am curious.
What do you mean by "original"? Original 'languages' (ie Hebrew, Syriac, koine Greek)? or 'original' material upon which the text was written, papyrii, lambskin, etc?, or something else?
You seem to be advocating that the language of the inspired men who wrote down the texts that we have, are superior to any translation, into any other language, of those said texts, is that a correct understanding of your statement?
If so, may I ask you which is the superior, the translated text of Luke (in Acts) of Paul's encounter with the risen Jesus, in Acts 26:14, who spoke to Paul in the Hebrew tongue, yet translated into koine Greek in the NT book of Acts? The same question would go for Paul, when speaking in Acts 22:1-22, for he spoke in Hebrew, and the audience heard in Hebrew, but what we have is only a translation of that speech into koine Greek. We do not have the original language version (in Hebrew) anywhere recorded, correct?
Are you advocating that I need 'original' languages to best understand what God wants me to know, in other words, do I have to be able to know and read old Hebrew, Syriac and koine Greek?
Many other such examples (such as Joseph in Gen. 42:23 speaking unto his Hebrew brethren by an interpreter, and was in Egyptian, being translated into Hebrew and then written down for us, or as at Pentecost, Peter isn't speaking koine Greek, since those present are devout Jews from all over, though Greeks were included, and what of false Artaxerxes (false Smerdis) letter in Ezra 4 given and written in the Syriac language, and translated for us into Hebrew, into English) could be pointed to in asking this question, and so I was hoping you could expound on what you meant, a little more please.
Original languages. Nothing ever gets translated at 100%, even by closely related languages. The farther they are apart, the worse it gets.
What structure is there in English to cover the 4 different levels of meaning in Hebrew, (or the 7 in Arabic)?
It is not JUST the language of the men who wrote it down, but the cultural understanding shared by the authors and the original audience that did not need to be written down.
And no, you do not need to personally be a scholar of ancient Hebrew or Koine Greek. But you should avail yourself of the teachers who ARE such scholars.
Just a point of clarification, the language of [Palestinian] Jews in the 1st century was Aramaic, not Hebrew.
-CryptoLutheran
only because he was educated.I'd venture to say Paul was fluent in Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek, & perhaps Latin. And I believe Jesus, being God, could use any language necessary. And we see at the "first pentecost" there were many different languages used by Jews from different parts of the world. But I believe that, in Judea at that time, Aramaic was the commonest language.
only because he was educated.
There's simply NO Scriptural support for the KJVO myth. Therefore, it CANNOT be true.
Now, while one may PREFER the KJV (or any other one version), telling others that the KJV (or any other one version) is the ONLY valid English Bible translation is telling a lie.
Why pick on KJVO? Because that man-made myth has created a whole genre of literature, full of falsehoods, playing right into Satan's hands by causing strife and dissent among & between congregations.
**THE KJVO MYTH - PHONY AS A FORD CORVETTE !**
The writers (the men) were inspired of God, for they are God's pen-men, not His pen, and thus it is not the words themselves but the men who were inspired of God (see below for evidence from scripture). Inspiration acts not on the man's words or his expressions, but inspiration (of God) works upon the man (men) himself (themselves).... God inspired the writings not the writers. ...
All just material and ink, all long gone. People have made an idol of material and ink, but it is nothing.the original autographs ...
Consider carefully, please, unless you would give an answer that is like unto the Muslim answer, where Jesus would speak from the womb and from the cradle "Divine knowledge":The only hint of Jesus' earthly education we have is that Scripture calls Him a carpenter, as His earthly stepfather was.(Mark 6:3)
And at age 12, He astounded the teachers in the temple with His knowledge. (Luke 2) I believe He retained His full Divine knowledge while He was here as a man; thus, He could understand & speak (or write) in any language. We see no Scriptural evidence of anyone speaking to Him in a language He didn't understand.
I don't buy into 'catholic' myths (and the corruptions of the Peshitta, and its interpolations by others), I go by the scripture, for it is Truth:Just a point of clarification, the language of [Palestinian] Jews in the 1st century was Aramaic, not Hebrew.
-CryptoLutheran
no, you were talking about paul. Paul was educated at the top schools in Jerusalem. Jesus in order to be God, must have been all knowing. But there are scriptures that indicate that Jesus didn't know certain things, but I assume that was his humanity speaking there.The only hint of Jesus' earthly education we have is that Scripture calls Him a carpenter, as His earthly stepfather was.(Mark 6:3)
And at age 12, He astounded the teachers in the temple with His knowledge. (Luke 2) I believe He retained His full Divine knowledge while He was here as a man; thus, He could understand & speak (or write) in any language. We see no Scriptural evidence of anyone speaking to Him in a language He didn't understand.
I don't buy into 'catholic' myths (and the corruptions of the Peshitta, and its interpolations by others), I go by the scripture, for it is Truth:
Joh. 5:2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.
Joh. 5:2 GNT TR εστιν δε εν τοις ιεροσολυμοις επι τη προβατικη κολυμβηθρα η επιλεγομενη εβραιστι βηθεσδα πεντε στοας εχουσα
Act. 21:40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,
Act. 21:40 GNT TR επιτρεψαντος δε αυτου ο παυλος εστως επι των αναβαθμων κατεσεισεν τη χειρι τω λαω πολλης δε σιγης γενομενης προσεφωνησεν τη εβραιδι διαλεκτω λεγων
Act. 22:2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)
Act. 22:2 GNT TR ακουσαντες δε οτι τη εβραιδι διαλεκτω προσεφωνει αυτοις μαλλον παρεσχον ησυχιαν και φησιν
Act. 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Act. 26:14 GNT TR παντων δε καταπεσοντων ημων εις την γην ηκουσα φωνην λαλουσαν προς με και λεγουσαν τη εβραιδι διαλεκτω σαουλ σαουλ τι με διωκεις σκληρον σοι προς κεντρα λακτιζειν
Rev. 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
Rev. 9:11 GNT TR και εχουσιν επ αυτων βασιλεα τον αγγελον της αβυσσου ονομα αυτω εβραιστι αβαδδων και εν τη ελληνικη ονομα εχει απολλυων
Rev. 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Rev. 16:16 GNT TR και συνηγαγεν αυτους εις τον τοπον τον καλουμενον εβραιστι αρμαγεδδων
We know what "ebraisti" means, "Hebrew", for Paul said:
Php. 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Php. 3:5 περιτομη οκταημερος εκ γενους ισραηλ φυλης βενιαμιν εβραιος εξ εβραιων κατα νομον φαρισαιος
Paul spoke more languages than all of them (1 Cor. 14:18), including yourself, no doubt, and he would know Hebrew from Aramaic, right?
Notice again, the three main languages of the time (and nothing about Aramaic):
Joh. 19:20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
Joh. 19:20 GNT TR τουτον ουν τον τιτλον πολλοι ανεγνωσαν των ιουδαιων οτι εγγυς ην της πολεως ο τοπος οπου εσταυρωθη ο ιησους και ην γεγραμμενον εβραιστι ελληνιστι
Luk. 23:38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Luk. 23:38 ην δε και επιγραφη γεγραμμενη επ αυτω γραμμασιν ελληνικοις και ρωμαικοις και εβραικοις ουτος εστιν ο βασιλευς των ιουδαιων
Again even the name of the place:
Joh. 19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
Joh. 19:17 και βασταζων τον σταυρον αυτου εξηλθεν εις τον λεγομενον κρανιου τοπον ος λεγεται εβραιστι γολγοθα
The Seat of Judgment:
Joh. 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
Joh. 19:13 ο ουν πιλατος ακουσας τουτον τον λογον ηγαγεν εξω τον ιησουν και εκαθισεν επι του βηματος εις τοπον λεγομενον λιθοστρωτον εβραιστι δε γαββαθα
The common language was the "hebrew" language:
Joh. 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
Show me one time in the NT koine Greek, where the phrase "in the Aramaic/Syriac tongue" was used? (I didn't ask for an Aramaic word.)
Isa. 36:11 Then said Eliakim and Shebna and Joah unto Rabshakeh, Speak, I pray thee, unto thy servants in the Syrian language; for we understand it: and speak not to us in the Jews' language, in the ears of the people that are on the wall.
Isa. 36:11 HOT Translit. waYomer el'yäqiym w'shev'nä w'yôäch el-rav-shäqëh DaBer-nä el-ávädeykhä árämiyt Kiy shom'iym ánäch'nû w'al-T'daBër ëlëynû y'hûdiyt B'äz'nëy hääm ásher al-hachômäh
Isa. 36:11 so-called LXX καὶ εἶπεν πρὸς αὐτὸν Ελιακιμ καὶ Σομνας καὶ Ιωαχ Λάλησον πρὸς τοὺς παῖδάς σου Συριστί, ἀκούομεν γὰρ ἡμεῖς, καὶ μὴ λάλει πρὸς ἡμᾶς Ιουδαϊτί· καὶ ἵνα τί λαλεῖς εἰς τὰ ὦτα τῶν ἀνθρώπων τῶν ἐπὶ τῷ τείχει;
Again:
Dan. 2:4 Then spake the Chaldeans to the king in Syriack, O king, live for ever: tell thy servants the dream, and we will shew the interpretation.
Dan. 2:4 Hot Translit. 2:4 way'daB'rû haKas'Diym laMelekh' árämiyt mal'Kä l'äl'miyn chéyiy émar chel'mä *l'av'Dayikh' [l'av'däkh'] ûfish'rä n'chaûë
Dan 2:4 καὶ ἐλάλησαν οἱ Χαλδαῖοι τῷ βασιλεῖ Συριστί Βασιλεῦ, εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας ζῆθι· σὺ εἰπὸν τὸ ἐνύπνιον τοῖς παισίν σου, καὶ τὴν σύγκρισιν ἀναγγελοῦμεν.
"Εβραιστι" unequivocally means "Hebrew." (of Eber) Not "Συριστι", which means "Syriac/Aramaic" (of Aram).
Consider - Eloi, Eloi Lama Sabachthani
What would you define as 'objectionable'?I haven't run into anything objectionable in the ESV.
What would you define as 'objectionable'?
Could you show me what your ESV translates in Matthew 12:47?
The English Standard Version (ESV)
Genesis 49:10 English Standard Version (ESV)
10 The scepter shall not depart from Judah,
nor the ruler's staff from between his feet,
until tribute comes to him;a]">[a]
and to him shall be the obedience of the peoples.
It just removed a reference to the Messiah, "Shiloh", which is what the Hebrew actually says:
Gen. 49:10 lo-yäšûr shëve† miyhûdäh ûm'choqëq miBëyn rag'läyw ad Kiy-yävo *shiyloh [shiylô] w'lô yiQ'hat aMiym
Gen. 49:10 לא־יסור שׁבט מיהודה ומחקק מבין רגליו עד כי־יבא שׁילה ולו יקהת עמים׃
In the New Testament, the RSV and the ESV are missing the following whole verses. Matthew 12:47 (though the NASB, NIV have it, but omit or bracket the others) Matthew 17:21; 18:11; 23:14; Mark 7:16; 9:44, 46; 11:26; 15:18; most of Luke 9:55-56; all of Luke 17:36; 23:17; John 5:4, Acts 8:37; 15:34; 24:7; 28:29; Romans 16:24, and most of 1 John 5:7.
Indeed, and if one carefully reads the NT, it will be seen that satan tried to convince Jesus that He (Jesus) was the fallen angel in the wilderness and now satan simply tries to convince men of it.View attachment 254259
morning star was something that Jesus was called twice in the new testament.