False Signs and Wonders

lismore

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You make it sound like all churches are apostates or bad or something, try to make it balanced. There is a lot of true christians leaders and christians in the churches.

Hello NBB> I would agree with Alithis in that if there is systemic unrighteousness in a church, if it is built and operates on a false foundation, then it's best to leave. Can fresh and salt water flow from the same Spring? God Bless :)
 
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NBB

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Hello NBB> I would agree with Alithis in that if there is systemic unrighteousness in a church, if it is built and operates on a false foundation, then it's best to leave. Can fresh and salt water flow from the same Spring? God Bless :)

Sure, but don't make it sound like all churches are like that.
The perfect church doens't exists.
 
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lismore

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Sure, but don't make it sound like all churches are like that.
The perfect church doens't exists.

I agree that there are good churches. A good church can be a blessing and a place where you can be a blessing to others. But it's good to tell people, if they are in a spiritually abusive church or one on the wrong foundation to leave it and let the Lord lead them into green pastures. God Bless :)
 
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Alithis

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Don't forget that from people on churches a lot of people learned the gospel.
I wish were so.. But its not so
From within that system the truths of the Good news of JESUS are undermined.
-Repentance is lacking
-Water baptism is relegated to symbolism
-The holy spirit is sensual feelings based
-freedom from sin is promoted as a myth.
-ongoing sin is excused
- your saved by merely intellectually accepting some information.
No .. They may hear the Gospel of the church system but they do not learn the Gospel of JESUS.
They become disciples of thier preferential denominations.
But not Disciples of Jesus giving up all to follow him.

They read one thing in the bible but do another.
They say one thing with their lips but in the actions they do not believe.
Their actions scream How can God possibly provide my needs..
It is all a double mindedness .
 
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scottmcc2

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I agree we have to use scripture to light the way ahead.

I think much of it is to do with there being paid staff in control- they're on a good deal, financially and with pension contributions, so they want to control everything to ensure they get their good deal for as long as possible. If the sheep realised they didn't need some of these self appointed leaders-mediators then their good deal would be over. At a most extreme example, a pastor can work two or three hours a week and get the same pay as a Head Teacher, with a final salary pension.

In a Charismatic/ Pentecostal type church where there can be an obsession with experience and miracles and an expectation on the behalf of the people to see these things, in order to keep their living a pastor will need to keep the experiences and the miracles being seen, whether or not the Holy Spirit is moving or not.

The Most scary comment I heard from a Pentecostal Pastor was 'If God is not moving then we have to move God'. The same Pastor asked me if I would be slain in the Spirit at the end of the meeting if no-one else was, in order to authenticate the sermon. Some agreed to be pushed over, I didn't. Those who agreed are no longer with us.

God Bless :)





wow sorry to hear that.
 
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ARBITER01

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Self control is a fruit of the Spirit. When people are running amok, then the Holy Spirit is absent from the proceedings.

From what I've read of older revivals, I wouldn't say The Holy Spirit is absent, just being pushed away by the flesh of the people at some of the events.

I agree with you though, the leaders have to make sure the environment is controlled rather than out of control. Anyone can look up the out of control stuff from Toronto years ago on youtube.
 
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