Aliens vs Supernatural

Jude, a simpler, more prosaic explanation is that the typical "grey alien" resembles a prototypical face. Studies of babies have shown that all that is needed to perceive a face is two large eyes. This might be why we find cartoon characters so compelling and believable, despite their crudeness, because they also typically have large eyes.

mathinspiration said:

Do you believe that aliens made the universe or unintentionally and helped ancient civilizations? Or is this plain racist?

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An alien definitely made space time. We even have observational evidence that confirms that this alien exists; see below.

Daniel 10:6
His body also was like beryl, his face had the appearance of lightning, his eyes were like flaming torches, his arms and feet like the gleam of polished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a tumult.

This alien is not of this world.

FireDragon76 said:

If they are sufficiently advanced, I doubt we could understand their motivations, in the same way that the motivations of many Europeans were initially confusing to Native Americans.

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I actually think on this topic Hugh Ross really has a lot to say. The Science Fiction paradigm that maybe these are ultra sophisticated creatures has got problems. Namely, the biggest one is that your Captain Kirk person can break a few rules of physics. He can teleport from one place to the next for instance. But Captain Kirk cannot break all the rules of physics! While Captain Kirk can sometimes teleport, he can be stabbed and shot for instance.


But if you list all the abilities of these creatures and their vehicles they can literally break every law of physics. UFO's can change size at will, and can multiply or reduce in number. They can make turns that are impossible, and stop on a dime at extreme high speed. They can project light beams that suddenly terminate (like the light beam of a light saber). They can sometimes be seen on radar, but not by naked sight, but the reverse is also true at times.

UFO crew-members can walk through walls, and I'm sure there's probably another dozen or two examples of other laws they break.

Anyway when you add up all the laws they break from gravity, light, matter etc. it gets to be a pretty convincing case that you are dealing with something that is "non-physical" (Something that can interact with the physical world, and at times leave behind physical effects but not subject to any of our Physical laws).


I've heard Physicists use Flatland to describe this sort of thing. (How a being from a high dimension would interact with us)
Flatland: A romance of many dimensions

Pavel Mosko said:

I actually think on this topic Hugh Ross really has a lot to say. The Science Fiction paradigm that maybe these are ultra sophisticated creatures has got problems. Namely, the biggest one is that your Captain Kirk person can break a few rules of physics. He can teleport from one place to the next for instance. But Captain Kirk cannot break all the rules of physics! While Captain Kirk can sometimes teleport, he can be stabbed and shot for instance.


But if you list all the abilities of these creatures and their vehicles they can literally break every law of physics. UFO's can change size at will, and can multiply or reduce in number. They can make turns that are impossible, and stop on a dime at extreme high speed. They can project light beams that suddenly terminate (like the light beam of a light saber). They can sometimes be seen on radar, but not by naked sight, but the reverse is also true at times.

UFO crew-members can walk through walls, and I'm sure there's probably another dozen or two examples of other laws they break.

Anyway when you add up all the laws they break from gravity, light, matter etc. it gets to be a pretty convincing case that you are dealing with something that is "non-physical" (Something that can interact with the physical world, and at times leave behind physical effects but not subject to any of our Physical laws).


I've heard Physicists use Flatland to describe this sort of thing. (How a being from a high dimension would interact with us)
Flatland: A romance of many dimensions

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That is true, but remember what the science fiction author, Arthur C. Clarke, said, any sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic.

FireDragon76 said:

That is true, but remember what the science fiction author, Arthur C. Clarke, said, any sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic.

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I actually was thinking about that!

But that actually is where some of the other profiling areas come in. For being from a super advanced society they sure have a fixation on Jesus! As in they seem very bent on "correcting the record" of what His real mission and teaching is about! Also for a high tech enlightened society why do they use painful and often primitive methods of surgery? We as a lower one use anesthesia. Why don't they? At times, it appears like they are being deliberately cruel.


The Fairy cases you mentioned a few posts back are really on track. Alien abduction cases not only fit in with that, but also tend to fit the profile of cases of possession and demonology. Moreover Hugh Ross in studying this phenomenon since the early 1980s finds a high correlation (I think it is perfect or close to that), between involvement in the occult and seeing ufos. Basically astronomers (with no occult background) who log hundreds of hours every year watching the night skies typically never see them, but astronomers who have a background in occult groups/activities see them on a regular basis when they only watch the night sky for only a 1-2 dozen hours a year.

If I recall he started to see a relationship in the United States in the early 1980s, but the picture crystallized while visiting the former Soviet Union where he realized the relationship. While the Soviets were mostly officially atheist, parapsychology was big there and that is what the Ufo seeing astronomers were into for the most part.

Now some people might make some objections like
1) The Scientific principle that "correlation does not equal causation"
2) Or use the link of such people with suggestion, hypnosis etc.

But those kinds of objections can actually be overcome. There are ways of showing causation both statistically and various "cause and effect ways", which can be done here (Prayer, exorcism / deliverance ministry etc. has been shown to actually help these people most of the time!). And in the case of hypnosis, you can often document physical evidence, eye witness testimony etc. to show that a number of these cases are real and not just in someones mind.

FireDragon76 said:

That is true, but remember what the science fiction author, Arthur C. Clarke, said, any sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic.

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That is a very good point.

Imagine what the apostles would have thought if you showed them a smartphone. A smartphone live streaming with the music playing.

klutedavid said:

That is a very good point.

Imagine what the apostles would have thought if you showed them a smartphone. A smartphone live streaming with the music playing.

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Demons!!!

Well, demons until the batteries ran out.

JackRT said:

Demons!!!

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It is beyond question that they would have thought it was sorcery.

JackRT said:

Well, demons until the batteries ran out.

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Even a hundred years ago before television, it would have been absolute science fiction.

klutedavid said:

Even a hundred years ago before television, it would have been absolute science fiction.

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I don't think that even Alexander Graham Bell could imagine what his technology might have become.

Pavel Mosko said:

I actually was thinking about that!

But that actually is where some of the other profiling areas come in. For being from a super advanced society they sure have a fixation on Jesus! As in they seem very bent on "correcting the record" of what His real mission and teaching is about! Also for a high tech enlightened society why do they use painful and often primitive methods of surgery? We as a lower one use anesthesia. Why don't they? At times, it appears like they are being deliberately cruel.


The Fairy cases you mentioned a few posts back are really on track. Alien abduction cases not only fit in with that, but also tend to fit the profile of cases of possession and demonology. Moreover Hugh Ross in studying this phenomenon since the early 1980s finds a high correlation (I think it is perfect or close to that), between involvement in the occult and seeing ufos. Basically astronomers (with no occult background) who log hundreds of hours every year watching the night skies typically never see them, but astronomers who have a background in occult groups/activities see them on a regular basis when they only watch the night sky for only a 1-2 dozen hours a year.

If I recall he started to see a relationship in the United States in the early 1980s, but the picture crystallized while visiting the former Soviet Union where he realized the relationship. While the Soviets were mostly officially atheist, parapsychology was big there and that is what the Ufo seeing astronomers were into for the most part.

Now some people might make some objections like
1) The Scientific principle that "correlation does not equal causation"
2) Or use the link of such people with suggestion, hypnosis etc.

But those kinds of objections can actually be overcome. There are ways of showing causation both statistically and various "cause and effect ways", which can be done here (Prayer, exorcism / deliverance ministry etc. has been shown to actually help these people most of the time!). And in the case of hypnosis, you can often document physical evidence, eye witness testimony etc. to show that a number of these cases are real and not just in someones mind.

Click to expand...

There are possible "other" explanations too.

I watched a documentary about 15 or so years ago that took volunteers who've never had a "supernatural experience" to test a hypothesis. The hypothesis is that electromagnetic energy can cause hallucinations that are consistent with each other. I.E. seeing gray or white semi-opaque humanoid looking forms.

The hypothesis came from that fact that a group of seismologists noticed an increase in sightings of "angels" / "demons" / "ghosts" / "aliens" just before and just after earth quakes. The earth's crust releases electromagnetic energy around the time of quakes.

If you are out in the forest at night in places where the earth's curst is thinner, you will see these varying sized orbs of white light flying around. (They can be caught on camera too.) They aren't ghosts (or what ever). They are actually balls of electromagnetic energy. And like lightening which takes the path of least resistance; if you get too close to one of them; it will "zap" you. And if it is a large discharge of electromagnetic energy, it can knock a person down and knock them unconscious.

I encountered one of these light orbs in my living room one night. It flew right past my head. Made the hair on the back of my neck stand up; but I wasn't afraid of it, because I knew what it was.

So the seismologists got a medical school to test their hypotheses and took volunteers put something like an EEG on their heads and started to pass electromagnetic energy through their brains. Well guess what happened? They saw grey humanoid looking forms.

Now the scientists concluded that what the individuals interpreted those to be; in a "real life event" depended on their personal belief systems. So the phenomena is "real" even if it isn't "really happening" - was the consensus they came to.

Now if you ever watch these shows like "Ghost Hunters". Once in a while one of these people (usually the one carrying electronic equipment) gets "bit by a ghost". Also, you'll notice "hauntings" usually are said to be happening in basements and attics. Yet where is the highest concentrations of electromagnetic energy in a house? (Attics and basements) And this is because of the circuitry of electrical wiring (especially old "knob and tube" wiring) in houses. Now if you use an energy field meter, you can pick up these electromagnetic fields. Housing contractors who work on old houses use these devices to make sure all the wires are indeed "dead" before they start hacking out walls. Obviously the last thing you want to hit with a sledge hammer is an old live wire.

So the consistency of people's experiences could have an actual geological answer. Now obviously certain people are "way off the wall" in some of the things they describe.

Another possibility too is epileptic seizures that pass through the visual cortex could produce the same experience. This has actually happened to my son. People with occipital lobe seizures can see flashing lights or gray shapes that resemble people. That is recorded in medical literature too.

The Righterzpen said:

There are possible "other" explanations too.

I watched a documentary about 15 or so years ago that took volunteers who've never had a "supernatural experience" to test a hypothesis. The hypothesis is that electromagnetic energy can cause hallucinations that are consistent with each other. I.E. seeing gray or white semi-opaque humanoid looking forms.

The hypothesis came from that fact that a group of seismologists noticed an increase in sightings of "angels" / "demons" / "ghosts" / "aliens" just before and just after earth quakes. The earth's crust releases electromagnetic energy around the time of quakes.

If you are out in the forest at night in places where the earth's curst is thinner, you will see these varying sized orbs of white light flying around. (They can be caught on camera too.) They aren't ghosts (or what ever). They are actually balls of electromagnetic energy. And like lightening which takes the path of least resistance; if you get too close to one of them; it will "zap" you. And if it is a large discharge of electromagnetic energy, it can knock a person down and knock them unconscious.

I encountered one of these light orbs in my living room one night. It flew right past my head. Made the hair on the back of my neck stand up; but I wasn't afraid of it, because I knew what it was.

So the seismologists got a medical school to test their hypotheses and took volunteers put something like an EEG on their heads and started to pass electromagnetic energy through their brains. Well guess what happened? They saw grey humanoid looking forms.

Now the scientists concluded that what the individuals interpreted those to be; in a "real life event" depended on their personal belief systems. So the phenomena is "real" even if it isn't "really happening" - was the consensus they came to.

Now if you ever watch these shows like "Ghost Hunters". Once in a while one of these people (usually the one carrying electronic equipment) gets "bit by a ghost". Also, you'll notice "hauntings" usually are said to be happening in basements and attics. Yet where is the highest concentrations of electromagnetic energy in a house? (Attics and basements) And this is because of the circuitry of electrical wiring (especially old "knob and tube" wiring) in houses. Now if you use an energy field meter, you can pick up these electromagnetic fields. Housing contractors who work on old houses use these devices to make sure all the wires are indeed "dead" before they start hacking out walls. Obviously the last thing you want to hit with a sledge hammer is an old live wire.

So the consistency of people's experiences could have an actual geological answer. Now obviously certain people are "way off the wall" in some of the things they describe.

Another possibility too is epileptic seizures that pass through the visual cortex could produce the same experience. This has actually happened to my son. People with occipital lobe seizures can see flashing lights or gray shapes that resemble people. That is recorded in medical literature too.

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I am reminded of near death experiences. The number of these experiences have dramatically risen since modern medicine has gained the ability to resuscitate patients who are near death. It seems to be strongly linked to a slow oxygen starvation. At any rate it has been found to be strongly culturally and religiously linked. A protestant Christian might meet Jesus at the end of the "light tunnel" while a Catholic might met the virgin Mary or a Hindu meet Krishna or a Buddhist meet Sidhartha Gautama.

JackRT said:

I am reminded of near death experiences. The number of these experiences have dramatically risen since modern medicine has gained the ability to resuscitate patients who are near death. It seems to be strongly linked to a slow oxygen starvation. At any rate it has been found to be strongly culturally and religiously linked. A protestant Christian might meet Jesus at the end of the "light tunnel" while a Catholic might met the virgin Mary or a Hindu meet Krishna or a Buddhist meet Sidhartha Gautama.

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This is true!

JackRT said:

I don't think that even Alexander Graham Bell could imagine what his technology might have become.

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I agree.

FireDragon76 said:

Jude, a simpler, more prosaic explanation is that the typical "grey alien" resembles a prototypical face. Studies of babies have shown that all that is needed to perceive a face is two large eyes. This might be why we find cartoon characters so compelling and believable, despite their crudeness, because they also typically have large eyes.

Click to expand...

What happens if the observations of the alien's eyes, are simply the alien wearing shades.

If people like the subject and find my posts interesting, they can get some of the info "from the horses mouth" below.

He's an interesting guy. An Astrophysicist by trade, who also has been a pastor for a few decades.
He has a unique testimony, unlike 99.99% of the Christian world is either born into Christendom or evangelized, he came into the Faith by his own research from being raised by as an agnostic (He studied science believed it pointed to a God, the embarked on studying World Religions to eventually finding Christianity as being unique in ways that suggested it was of divine origin). I know him mostly from his work on Creationism (He however gets lots of hate from Young Earth Creationism).

Pavel Mosko said:

But that actually is where some of the other profiling areas come in. For being from a super advanced society they sure have a fixation on Jesus! As in they seem very bent on "correcting the record" of what His real mission and teaching is about! Also for a high tech enlightened society why do they use painful and often primitive methods of surgery? We as a lower one use anesthesia. Why don't they? At times, it appears like they are being deliberately cruel.

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Or their motivations and behaviors might simply be incomprehensible to us. Perhaps they are not concerned with our pain. We regularly tag animals, for instance, in procedures without anesthesia.

Years ago my mom and I actually reported an object in the sky that looked like a rocket, but it was quite large and had red flames under it and made no noise. We watched it ascend for a minute or so. There was also no smoke trail. Since we used to live closer to the Cape, we called NASA and they said there were no scheduled launches that day, so we were never sure what we saw. I suppose it could always have been a military launch, but the lack of noise or news reports seemed strange. And typically even military launches were things that they would mention, even if the payload was classified.

It was very eery to watch because both of us were familiar with rockets and shuttles, and this didn't really look anything like the typical launch.

Even former president, Jimmy Carter, has reported seeing a UFO. It was during his time in the Navy.

FireDragon76 said:

Years ago my mom and I actually reported an object in the sky that looked like a rocket, but it was quite large and had red flames under it and made no noise. We watched it ascend for a minute or so. There was also no smoke trail. Since we used to live closer to the Cape, we called NASA and they said there were no scheduled launches that day, so we were never sure what we saw. I suppose it could always have been a military launch, but the lack of noise or news reports seemed strange. And typically even military launches were things that they would mention, even if the payload was classified.

It was very eery to watch because both of us were familiar with rockets and shuttles, and this didn't really look anything like the typical launch.

Even former president, Jimmy Carter, has reported seeing a UFO. It was during his time in the Navy.

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I once saw an alien spaceship but then I realized it was a reflection on the car window.

The distance between stars is immense and it is highly unlikely that some alien intelligence. Could cover those stellar distances, nor may we ever be able to travel to any star.

Aliens may exist and who really knows but I'm fairly certain they will never visit us.