So did Trump only help to boost Kim's image on the world stage?

TLK Valentine · Mar 9, 2019

Aldebaran said:
Negotiating requires civility. Would you prefer that he continued calling Un "Little Rocket Man" during the peace talks?

Worked for him before the peace talks, didn't it?

But maybe that was the problem -- Donald's so unaccustomed to civility, nobody believe him when he's sincere -- which he rarely is, so that works out.

Ideally. Once he has working missiles and working warheads, it's not too much of a stretch to get one connected to the other. Either that or sneak one into a target's territory in a cargo container, or even delivered by an airline jet.

Well, "Little Rocket Man" has been firing rockets for a reason...

He's already demonstrated his nuclear and missile capabilities. Demonstrating much further than this could be going too far. Just as a person can threaten his neighbor by saying he has a gun, he could go further by showing him the gun. But to then start shooting it at the neighbor would be an act of aggression rather than a "bargaining chip". I'm not sure what other demonstration Un could do with his weapon program beyond what he's already done that would not be an act of aggression.

A gun doesn't mean much unless you show the will to use it. A test -- and I mean a test of a functioning rocket with a nuclear payload -- would do the trick... don't you think?

Aldebaran · Mar 9, 2019

TLK Valentine said:
Worked for him before the peace talks, didn't it?

It was a way of being hostile before being civil. It's an indication of being willing to negotiate. Perhaps it could be seen as a "bully tactic", or a "good cop, bad cop" way of doing things, but it was useful to start a dialog.

TLK Valentine said:
Well, "Little Rocket Man" has been firing rockets for a reason...

Yes, to test them and make them better and to show others that he has them. People know he has them, so that much is already established. Same for the nuke detonations.

TLK Valentine said:
A gun doesn't mean much unless you show the will to use it. A test -- and I mean a test of a functioning rocket with a nuclear payload -- would do the trick... don't you think?

It's hardly necessary. Simple math can be done instead. He has missiles that can reach us. He already demonstrated that. He has nukes that function. That too has been demonstrated. Does it really require a full demo of a nuke attached to a missile to prove that a nuke can be attached to a missile? Has Russia ever had to launch a nuclear armed missile at the USA to prove it has them and that they can reach us?

TLK Valentine · Mar 9, 2019

Aldebaran said:
It was a way of being hostile before being civil. It's an indication of being willing to negotiate. Perhaps it could be seen as a "bully tactic", or a "good cop, bad cop" way of doing things, but it was useful to start a dialog.

Considering it's also his default way of talking to the Democrats, the press, the celebrities he feuds with regularly, and just about anyone who does not give him the reverence he feels he's entitled to, I would've expected a lot more "dialogs" from him.

They have not been forthcoming, have they?

Yes, to test them and make them better and to show others that he has them. People know he has them, so that much is already established. Same for the nuke detonations.

Then he already has what he wants. And he was going to give it all up in exchange for one of Donald's promises?

It's hardly necessary. Simple math can be done instead. He has missiles that can reach us. He already demonstrated that. He has nukes that function. That too has been demonstrated. Does it really require a full demo of a nuke attached to a missile to prove that a nuke can be attached to a missile? Has Russia ever had to launch a nuclear armed missile at the USA to prove it has them and that they can reach us?

True, but knowing something in the abstract and seeing it firsthand are two different things. Un and Donald are two of a kind -- they both like showmanship and pagentry.

Aldebaran · Mar 10, 2019

TLK Valentine said:
Then he already has what he wants. And he was going to give it all up in exchange for one of Donald's promises?

If he already has what he wants, then why did he agree--twice--to try working out a deal with Trump? Oh yeah, the sanctions. Perhaps he doesn't have everything he wants.

TLK Valentine · Mar 10, 2019

Aldebaran said:
If he already has what he wants, then why did he agree--twice--to try working out a deal with Trump? Oh yeah, the sanctions. Perhaps he doesn't have everything he wants.

And clearly he doesn't expect Donald to provide them.

But every time Donald comes running, Un gains more and more legitimacy -- which, we should remember, is the point of the nukes.

And Donald will come running every single time -- the lure of a Nobel is just too tempting.

Apologetic_Warrior · Mar 10, 2019

Mountainmanbob said:
????????

Comments?

M-Bob

Kim looked like a deer in the headlights, sweating bullets, like a child in trouble with daddy. If Kim wanted that type of image then I guess it's a boost, but he's a little man in a grown man's world. I wouldn't doubt if China has saved his bacon more than once.

Aldebaran · Mar 10, 2019

TLK Valentine said:
And clearly he doesn't expect Donald to provide them.

But every time Donald comes running, Un gains more and more legitimacy -- which, we should remember, is the point of the nukes.

And Donald will come running every single time -- the lure of a Nobel is just too tempting.

Are you suggesting that Trump shouldn't try negotiating for peace with NK anymore? Are you in favor of just going to war instead? Or are you just indulging in more of your obsession with Donald?

Go Braves · Mar 10, 2019

Apologetic_Warrior said:
Kim looked like a deer in the headlights, sweating bullets, like a child in trouble with daddy. If Kim wanted that type of image then I guess it's a boost, but he's a little man in a grown man's world. I wouldn't doubt if China has saved his bacon more than once.

These pictures are from last year but I'm sure they're going to be used for NK propaganda He sure didn't look that way last year (1st picture) or this year when Trump shared the stage with Kim Jong-Un.

Kim is younger than Trump's three kids from wife 1. Yet Kim was able to share a stage with the president of the United States. He was able to call that POTUS a dotard, mock him, still get that POTUS to come to meet him. Twice. He was able to do this even after Trump's own intelligence company informed us that NK wasn't holding up their end of the bargain. Trump decided to believe the young fellow he was writing "beautiful love letters to" over our own intel leaders. Decided to give him huge validation by saying he believed what he said about Otto.

Apologetic_Warrior · Mar 11, 2019

Go Braves said:
These pictures are from last year but I'm sure they're going to be used for NK propaganda He sure didn't look that way last year (1st picture) or this year when Trump shared the stage with Kim Jong-Un.

Kim is younger than Trump's three kids from wife 1. Yet Kim was able to share a stage with the president of the United States. He was able to call that POTUS a dotard, mock him, still get that POTUS to come to meet him. Twice. He was able to do this even after Trump's own intelligence company informed us that NK wasn't holding up their end of the bargain. Trump decided to believe the young fellow he was writing "beautiful love letters to" over our own intel leaders. Decided to give him huge validation by saying he believed what he said about Otto.

Sorry I am trying to wrap my mind around love letters which involve no compromise on sanctions. I am not sure what age has to do with stage, considering our current Congress...Anyway, thank you for the two lovely frames that represent hope for peace and change in NK, however I have watched videos with thousands of frames which paint a different narrative. Personally I am hoping for peace rather than fear of threats of a potential nuclear war, NK isn't without allies, powerful allies, which is how Kim (and his father before him) have managed thus far to make threats and harmful suggestive actions towards non-allies without fear of consequence. There are benefits to befriending people in high places, and that is what Kim is banking on, but he has been banking with the wrong bank, and this is probably the realization President Trump is trying to impress upon him through various means, such as influence on or having an impact on the NK economy. Kim could have a sweet deal if he played his cards right and decides to walk the straight and narrow, and if not, I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens and does not happen.

Go Braves · Mar 11, 2019

Apologetic_Warrior said:
Sorry I am trying to wrap my mind around love letters which involve no compromise on sanctions. I am not sure what age has to do with stage, considering our current Congress...Anyway, thank you for the two lovely frames that represent hope for peace and change in NK, however I have watched videos with thousands of frames which paint a different narrative. Personally I am hoping for peace rather than fear of threats of a potential nuclear war, NK isn't without allies, powerful allies, which is how Kim (and his father before him) have managed thus far to make threats and harmful suggestive actions towards non-allies without fear of consequence. There are benefits to befriending people in high places, and that is what Kim is banking on, but he has been banking with the wrong bank, and this is probably the realization President Trump is trying to impress upon him through various means, such as influence on or having an impact on the NK economy. Kim could have a sweet deal if he played his cards right and decides to walk the straight and narrow, and if not, I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens and does not happen.

Donald characterized the correspondence with Kim as "love letters" from his friend. Then said he hadn't actually read them. Lol.

You're welcome for the pictures of Donald giving Kim a lifetime of propaganda posters.

Donald needs to play his cards right, which starts with actually looking at the cards & learning how to play the game. There was a political cartoon not that long back of Donald sitting at the card table, huge grin on his face, boasting about how he knew how to play the cards, and his hand was backwards, revealing everything. That's pretty apt. He failed to listen to his intelligence community & worse than that, publicly doubted them.

Apologetic_Warrior · Mar 11, 2019

Go Braves said:
Decided to give him huge validation by saying he believed what he said about Otto.

"University of Virginia student Otto Warmbier was arrested for allegedly pilfering a propaganda poster while on a tour of North Korea in January 2016. The young student was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor for his crimes at a tearful show trial in March that same year.

Through a series of back-channel negotiations with Pyongyang, Trump’s administration managed to secure Warmbier’s release in June 2017. But his return home was bitter sweet, as the Cincinnati native returned in a coma after having suffered a traumatic brain injury — details of which remain unclear. Warmbier passed away just one week after his release.

Both the president and the Warmbier Family have suggested the outcome might have been different if the previous administration had acted more quickly to save the now-deceased student." Ryan Pickrell | China/Asia Pacific Reporter, article 17 Prisoners Trump has freed since he took office (as of May 2018)

Maybe the President does not want to jump to conclusions without evidence? How would or could we know what really happened and determine who knew what? No dictator has absolute control of every individual in a country, absolute control over others thoughts and actions. The previous US administrations strategies of either ignoring foreign problems and brushing them off to the public as merely more blowing hot air, or waiting for foreign powers to strike first, or attempting to throw money at problems hoping to get a pass, obviously failed. Otto should have been rescued by the previous US administration, and God knows they had roughly 11 months to do it, but evidently it was not a high priority, considering it was a Presidential election year. Thank you for bringing Otto up, from what I understand it is truly horrible what happened to him. I hope one day justice will be served to the person(s) responsible. I kind of miss the old program "Unsolved Mysteries" and always let down with unsolved cases, and kept me watching with hopes for updates. I hope we get a factual update on his story.

TLK Valentine · Mar 11, 2019

Apologetic_Warrior said:
Kim looked like a deer in the headlights, sweating bullets, like a child in trouble with daddy. If Kim wanted that type of image then I guess it's a boost, but he's a little man in a grown man's world. I wouldn't doubt if China has saved his bacon more than once.

Kind of puts Donald's failure to close a deal in perspective, doesn't it?

Aryeh Jay · Mar 11, 2019

Both of them benefited greatly in prestige and standing among their base.

Aldebaran · Mar 12, 2019

TLK Valentine said:
Kind of puts Donald's failure to close a deal in perspective, doesn't it?

It takes two to close a deal.
BTW, here's a little "whataboutism" I'm sure will make you happy: Did Obama succeed at any peace deals with North Korea? An easier question: Did he ever even try?

Pommer · Mar 12, 2019

Aldebaran said:
It takes two to close a deal.
BTW, here's a little "whataboutism" I'm sure will make you happy: Did Obama succeed at any peace deals with North Korea? An easier question: Did he ever even try?

Pearls...swine...and like that.

TLK Valentine · Mar 12, 2019

Aldebaran said:
It takes two to close a deal.

And we had zero. Make a point?

BTW, here's a little "whataboutism" I'm sure will make you happy: Did Obama succeed at any peace deals with North Korea? An easier question: Did he ever even try?

Indeed he did try... and while he failed:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli.../gIQA5QNtYS_story.html?utm_term=.be004c6c4485

Obama's 'Victory' with North Korea - by Jack David

Insight: Obama's North Korean leap of faith falls short | Reuters

Obama warns North Korea

Obama's failures cost him less than Donald's -- who cozied up to a murderous autocrat for nothing.

Interestingly, Out of Obama's options:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...a-theyre-all-terrible/?utm_term=.c6de2b8ba400

He chose the one he thought would do the least damage -- Donald went in the opposite direction, with predictable results.

Go Braves · Mar 12, 2019

It didn't really help to boost Trump's image on the world stage either. This is how many see it:

TLK Valentine · Mar 12, 2019

Go Braves said:
It didn't really help to boost Trump's image on the world stage either. This is how many see it:

Yes, but Donald's followers are required to not care about what the rest of the world thinks.

Interestingly, they're also required to criticize his predecessor for "embarrassing the nation" -- but that's ok; doublethink is a required skill among the Faithful.

Aldebaran · Mar 12, 2019

TLK Valentine said:
Yes, but Donald's followers are required to not care about what the rest of the world thinks.

We just don't care what his haters think. Although watching them implode can be fun.

TLK Valentine · Mar 12, 2019

Aldebaran said:
We just don't care what his haters think. Although watching them implode can be fun.

Like Ann Coulter? How much praise is she going to have to lavish on Donald before she's allowed back into the fold?

(or are we going to claim that she was always a hater?)

So did Trump only help to boost Kim's image on the world stage?

Boosted Kim's image on the world stage?

Yes

No

Kim's image matters not -- America first

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