Why Mary ?

Beloved2018 said:

Then why are you saying that because He is sitting at the Father's right hand, therefore He does not indwell the saints.

They are distinct, but not separate.

See above. I am very confused as to why you are creating this dichotomy.

Okay. I don't want to accuse anyone of not understanding the Gospel. We're all here to learn.

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The Father and the Son do not indwell the saints, according to Scripture, only the Holy Spirit does. (And this in no way means that the three Persons of the Trinity have ceased to be in communion with one another, nor did I ever claim that such is the case). It seems you are still misunderstanding me, there is no “dichotomy” here. You will find no Scripture that tells us the Father indwells believers or that the Son does so. We must stick to Scripture and what is plainly taught, not our own suppositions or what may sound plausible to us. There is indeed much about God we do not understand, yet He has revealed very important things about Himself to us in His word.

In any case, I’ve been over this enough now and have no wish to keep repeating myself.

God bless!

amariselle said:

The Father and the Son do not indwell the saints, according to Scripture, only the Holy Spirit does. (And this in no way means that the three Persons of the Trinity have ceased to be in communion with one another, nor did I ever claim that such is the case). It seems you are still misunderstanding me, there is no “dichotomy” here.

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You seemingly create a false dichotomy by citing verses that pertain to Christ's glorification, as if His glorification was proof that He does not indwell the saints. And I want to know why.

You will find no Scripture that tells us the Father indwells believers or that the Son does so. We must stick to Scripture and what is plainly taught, not our own suppositions or what may sound plausible to us. There is indeed much about God we do not understand, yet He has revealed very important things about Himself to us in His word.

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I agree. But I already cited John 17:21: "... that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me". Here is another, "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." Gal 2:20

In any case, I’ve been over this enough now and have no wish to keep repeating myself.

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Okay.

God bless!

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Thank you. You as well.

timothyu said:

An example yes, but how does that focus on and forward the Gospel of the Kingdom as commanded?

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????

Beloved2018 said:

????

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Simply put, Jesus, His Apostles, Paul all promoted the Gospel of the Kingdom. It was the core belief. It existed before any of the later self made theology of man. How do these side issues pertain to what we were commanded to do, spread the Gospel of the Kingdom? Are they not a distraction from the Kingdom of God? Who benefits from distractions except those who will never achieve the Kingdom??

Jedidah Mwende said:

Yes i agree with what your saying 100% and i agree Mary should be recognized what i constantly question and actually question other Catholics about, is about this bit in their prayers
"Holy Mary Mother of God Pray for us sinners now and the hour of our death Amen" why?? when the scripture is clear about prayer and the Holy spirit i quote again Romans 8 26-27 In the same the Holy spirit helps us in our weakness.For we do not know how we ought to pray,but the spirit him self intercedes for us with groans too deep for words.

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Yes. This is all true

Rem the Holy spirit is the spirit of God. He is God He is a person not a power the Bible describes the Holy Spirit as a person, not a mere force. He can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30), And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.. He has a will (1 Corinthians 12:4-7). He uses His mind to search the deep things of God (1 Corinthians 2:10)The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.. And He has fellowship with believers (2 Corinthians 13:14)May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.. Clearly, the Spirit is a person, just as the Father and the Son are persons.

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Yes! Amen!

and not in any of these verses about fellowship is MARY MENTIONED NOT A SINGLE ONE..

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I wouldn't really expect her to be. Is there a reason you would expect her to be?

Now Jesus tells his disciples in John 14:15 “If you love me, keep my commands.16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—....Now i have a right in the eyes of my Father(God )He tells me that he sent me the holy spirit who will help me in my prayers, The holy spirit who is going to be my guide and my advocate...

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Amen! He is! All this is most absolutely true!

No doubt Mary is favored amongest all women i respect that BUT SHE IS STILL HUMAN, SHE IS STILL FLESH..Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.. YES SO WHY IS SHE FEATURED IN PRAYER

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I wonder why you're quoting Eph. 6:12 in this context? Mary is human/flesh, but so is Jesus. It was from her that He took flesh. Do you mean to say, she is merely human/flesh?

As to your question about prayer, I'd like to hold off answering until I can better understand where you are coming from, if that's okay?

timothyu said:

Simply put, Jesus, His Apostles, Paul all promoted the Gospel of the Kingdom. It was the core belief. It existed before any of the self made theology of man. How do these side issues pertain to what we were commanded to do, spread the Gospel of the Kingdom? Are they not a distraction from the Kingdom of God? Who benefits from distractions except those who will never achieve the Kingdom??

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Oh..okay. Well, I would say that these are not side issues. For example, the council of Ephesus reaffirmed the belief that Mary is truly the Theotokos, in opposition to Nestorius and his followers who contended that there were two persons in Christ, a divine person and a human person.

johnnywong said:

Salvation is from Jesus ALONE !!!
Don't try to add Mary, Saints, Pope , saints praying for you , all rubbish compare to Christ !

Everthing add to it is under curse and from Satan

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That was very helpful. Thank you.

Beloved2018 said:

Oh..okay. Well, I would say that these are not side issues. For example, the council of Ephesus reaffirmed the belief that Mary is truly the Theotokos, in opposition to Nestorius and his followers who contended that there were two persons in Christ, a divine person and a human person.

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I understand that and that is fine. We know from scripture who Mary is and how she was blessed and blessed us. She deserves recognition but how does that pertain to the Gospel the Kingdom, the only gospel Jesus said to forward? I don't understand why man wants to confuse and bloat everything when all we, like the earliest followers/disciples and apostles needed to know is in His words and what became the scripture. Jesus kept it very simple and yet few understood back then. What chance would they have once man adds our 2 cents? Just saying, respect the players but focus on the mission without adding to it.

Beloved2018 said:

Just that I like to talk about one or two verses at a time. So when someone asks me (such as yourself), 'Show me in Scripture...' , I'll only cite a verse or two and then go from there.

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Mhh okay, just try reading them all with an open mind to get what am trying to put across..see if it makes sense

timothyu said:

I understand that and that is fine. We know from scripture who Mary is and how she was blessed and blessed us. She deserves recognition but how does that pertain to the Gospel the Kingdom, the only gospel Jesus said to forward? I don't understand why man wants to confuse and bloat everything when all we, like the earliest followers/disciples and apostles needed to know is in His words and what became the scripture. Jesus kept it very simple and yet few understood back then. What chance would they have once man adds our 2 cents? Just saying, respect the players but focus on the mission without adding to it.

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Do you see defending Christ's divinity as extraneous to the mission of the Gospel/Kingdom?

Beloved2018 said:

Do you see defending Christ's divinity as extraneous to the mission of the Gospel/Kingdom?

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When the mission is lost to the messenger?

Jedidah Mwende said:

Mhh okay, just try reading them all with an open mind to get what am trying to put across..see if it makes sense

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I do. That's why I like taking one verse at a time, so that I can properly digest it. I'm a sinner like everyone, I come with my own prejudices and baggage. But I do consider other Christians to be 'Spirit-filled' and so I definitely try to listen.

timothyu said:

When the mission is lost to the messenger?

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In what way?

Beloved2018 said:

In what way?

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Of what purpose is a religion that focusses on the messenger but not His message.. the good news He personally presented and fulfilled and presented as salvation long before gentiles caught wind of it.? As the OP says, why Mary or all the rest of the ceremony when the focal point His personal good news is set aside while the backstory is put upfront?

johnnywong said:

I wonder why Catholics so focus on Mary, mother of Jesus, what is the hidden agenda behind this?

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let me ask you something Johnnywong,(or any other Protestant, non-denominational, Evangelical,ect.) Would you agree that it is perfectly legit to pray to Jesus about anything? If so, how bout you asking Jesus "Why Mary?" Give Him time to respond. As a convert to Catholicism, I hope and pray that you have the same experience that led me to my powerful convictions about the validity of Mary as a helper for the helpless, as well as being a great prayer warrior.


Have a Blessed day

Confused.. does praying to Mary or the saints benefit the flesh or the spirit? We can chose only one.

timothyu said:

Of what purpose is a religion that focusses on the messenger but not His message.. the good news He personally presented and fulfilled and presented as salvation long before gentiles caught wind of it.? As the OP says, why Mary or all the rest of the ceremony when the focal point His personal good news is set aside while the backstory is put upfront?

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He, Himself, is the Good News; Jesus, Son of God, Son of Adam, Son of Abraham, Son of David, Son of Mary.

Beloved2018 said:

He, Himself, is the Good News; Jesus, Son of God, Son of Adam, Son of Abraham, Son of David, Son of Mary.

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So what He said was His good news no longer matters?