Revelation is in Code

parousia70

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The destruction of Jerusalem was a VERY troublesome time in 70AD. I can imagine many thought it was the end of the world.

It was certainly the end of the Old Covenant "world", and its elements did indeed melt with fervent heat as the Heavens and Earth that God had "Planted" in Isaiah 51:16, disappeared, on time, as prophesied, when the Lord of the Vineyard came and was the stone that crushed those wicked men to powder (Matthew 21:33-45)
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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It was certainly the end of the Old Covenant "world", and its elements did indeed melt with fervent heat as the Heavens and Earth that God had "Planted" in Isaiah 51:16, disappeared, on time, as prophesied, when the Lord of the Vineyard came and was the stone that crushed those wicked men to powder (Matthew 21:33-45)
Are you talking about 70ad Jerusalem as shown in Revelation 18:

2 Peter 3:12
Toward seeming/expecting and hastening the Parousia of the Day of the God, thru which heavens being fired<4448> shall be being dissolved
and elements<4747> burning <2741> being melted.

Reve 18:
8 by this, in one day shall be arriving the blows of Her, death and sorrow and famine.
And in fire She shall be being burned, that strong Lord, the God, the one judging Her

11 And the merchants of the land are lamenting and are mourning over her, because no one is not still buying their merchandise/cargo 12 merchandise/cargoes of gold, and of silver, and of precious stone, and of pearl, and of fine linen, and of purple, and of silk, and of scarlet, and every citron wood, and every ivory vessel, and every precious vessel out of wood, and of brass, and of iron, and of marble, 13 and cinnamon, and ginger, and incenses, and attar, and frankincense, and wine/oinon <3631>, and olive-oil/elaion <1637>, and fine-flour, and grain/siton <4621>, and cattle/beasts, and sheep, and of horses, and of chariots, and of bodies and souls of men.


Mattthew 24:7

19“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those, the days!

Mark 13:
17“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!

Luke 21:
23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.
Luke 23:28
28 and Jesus having turned unto them, said, 'Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but for yourselves weep ye, and for your children;
29 - for behold! days are coming, in which they shall be declaring, 'Happy the barren, and wombs which not bare, and paps which not nourish;

Ezekiel 5:

5 “This is what the sovereign Lord says: This is Jerusalem; I placed her in the center of the nations with countries all around her. 6 Then she defied my regulations and my statutes, becoming more wicked than the nations and the countries around her. Indeed, they have rejected my regulations, and they do not follow my statutes.
8 “Therefore this is what the sovereign Lord says: I – even I – am against you, and I will execute judgment among you while the nations watch. 9 I will do to you what I have never done before and will never do again because of all your abominable practices.
10 Therefore fathers will eat their sons within you, Jerusalem, and sons will eat their fathers. I will execute judgments on you, and I will scatter any survivors to the winds.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

.........Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive.
The Jews, for want of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen.

In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal ;........
While famine continued thus to spread its destructive rage through the city, the Romans, after many ineffectual attempts, at length succeeded in demolishing part of the inner wall, possessed themselves of the great tower of Antonia, and advanced towards the Temple, which Titus, in a council of war had determined to preserve as an ornament to the empire,
==========================================
This vid shows the Romans blowing on trumpets during the assault.......never realized that.....[Revelation also has trumpets in it....fascinating!]

.................................



.



.
 
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_Dave_

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Yeah I would get into it, except the part I couldn't get past is that the visions in Revelation and Isaiah, etc are so symbolic that even if they happened one might not recognize it. And that appears to be common in this forum. I have heard some people indicate that some of the vision prophecies have already took place while others think they are yet to come.

I stick with the ideas of Joseph in Egypt in OT then see Genesis 40:8, where God gave him the understanding of the dreams of Pharaoh. And no one could interpret the dreams except God. Which is what I believe is correct for revelation. So sure maybe someone could seek God and God might give them an understanding of the visions, but God might not tell me and then I wouldn't know the difference. I tried to understand Revelation and sought God for an understanding, but I don't think I ever got one.

Anyways, I understand it can be fun :) Cheers.
Devin, it all depends on your own hermeneutics of course, but if you understand that not all of Revelation is allegorical you'd begin to see it in a different light. Much of Revelation is literal and future.

That's why when you said, " ... the part I couldn't get past is that the visions in Revelation and Isaiah, etc are so symbolic that even if they happened one might not recognize it" you would instantly understand the "vision" if you realized that 1/3 of the world's population being destroyed in one event would definitely be something that you would notice. So, it obviously hasn't happened yet.

What might help is if you understand that John wasn't just in a trance being fed "visions" by the Lord. Basically, from Rev 4 on John has been transported into heaven where he is watching the actual events as they are literally taking place on earth. He can watch these as they transpire in the future because in heaven time is meaningless. That's why God brought him up there, so he could watch events outside of time, just like God himself does.

Here's the other thing ... Revelation is the only book of the Bible that promises a special blessing to those who read and understand it (Rev 1:3) and pronounces a curse on anyone who adds to or takes away from the words of prophecy in the book (Rev 22:18-19).

I highly recommend you make it a priority to become someone blessed as in Rev 1:3.
 
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Dr. D Bunker

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Devin, it all depends on your own hermeneutics of course, but if you understand that not all of Revelation is allegorical you'd begin to see it in a different light. Much of Revelation is literal and future.

Here's the other thing ... Revelation is the only book of the Bible that promises a special blessing to those who read and understand it (Rev 1:3) and pronounces a curse on anyone who adds to or takes away from the words of prophecy in the book (Rev 22:18-19).

I highly recommend you make it a priority to become someone blessed as in Rev 1:3.

A blessing for those who read and understand it BOTH at the beginning and end of it.
 
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parousia70

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I like the way you try to prop your position up. CEMENT? I'll have fun debunking any of your preterist views. You won't accept it but others who read will!

Challenge accepted!
Let's go, friend.
If you can get past your own preterist beliefs and somehow compartmentalize them out of the discussion, we might have some fun...

I'll start:

When was this passage fulfilled?
or has it been?

Matthew 21:43-44
43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Depends on my definition of 'the Christian religious establishment'. I certainly there mean the evil parts of it.

The same sort of wide reaching metaphors, we use all the time, in ordinary speech. It is certainly used in Revelation, such as with 'the Beast' -- 'the Beast' is related to the 'statue of Nebuchadnezzar', and if we track it back to the kingdoms that followed Rome, we would certainly be stuck looking right at modern 'Western Civilization'. Especially the 'superpowers' therein. Not everything is 'of the Beast', just because it is American, or British, or what have you.

Certainly, not even every politician, every soldier, every cop, nor anything like that.

Rome was part of 'the Beast' ('five have fallen, one is'), but so was Israel, where Jesus ministered, and the Apostles came from. Peter worked from, not 'Babylon', but 'Rome', which 'Babylon' was code for.

Paul was a Roman citizen.

The person with the greatest faith Jesus came across was a Centurion. Which in our modern form, would be a mixture between a police officer and a soldier officer.

So, while I appreciate your 'liking' of my post, you should remember to treat metaphor carefully. As is the topic of the post.
Oh, I do! In fact, Hermeneutics is one of my areas of study ... and has been for a long time.

However, I am sure your intent was merely to issue caution. But, too much caution is offered by many Christians these days on the 'religious establishment'. As it was with the Corinthians, Christians are all too eager to not judge even severe situations of error. Such as it was there, when a man was with his father's wife.

The Corinthians were not judging those of the world. But, it is in their rebuke, by Paul, where Paul pointed out it is not our place to judge those of the world. Something which Christians, today, are all too willing to do.

(Because they are under the erroneous belief that the 'world' is 'the Kingdom of God', 'the Church', which it certainly is not.)

(I might add here, while I do figure America into this equation of evil, above, I also believe America is the 'woman clothed with the sun, her feet above the moon'. As America was the first nation to land on the moon, and has many good principles in her founding. America was initially with twelve colonies, the thirteenth colony was declared by their own selves when they signed the declaration of independence, as an independent colony. Hence, the 'twelve stars over her head'. Besides the probability that the figurative '12 tribes' of the 144,000 are, at least, partially found here.)

Whatever the case, by any definition, the metaphors and metaphoric frameworks of Revelation are extremely difficult to make sense of.

The Spirit is our guide, who 'teaches us all things'. This does require sticking to the word Jesus spoke to us, however, something which the world, and the modern religious establishment keeps people away from. The Spirit also guides people into understanding how to see through even complex metaphors.

We all live in a world full of complex metaphors. Fiction, cinema, these present to us very complex metaphors all the time.

...the thing is, I'm thinking that there really is no single person, including myself, and including you as well, who has ALL of the necessary insights to understand the book of Daniel, Revelation, or the minor prophets, in a comprehensive manner. Sure, some of us may very well have a few details correct about this or that prophetic passage, but none of us should be hitting each other over the head in asserting the meaning of prophecy. It has been given to us encased in many metaphorical terms so none of us can afford to be dogmatic about it all.
 
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St. Helens

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MOD HAT ON
Please address only the content of the post and not the poster.
MOD HAT OFF
 
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Marilyn C

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Everyone knows Revelation is deep code,.....

Hi DreamerOfTheheart,

Actually the book of Revelation is explained throughout God`s word. God wrote the Bible and He alone interprets it. ALL the symbols etc are found throughout God`s word and are interpreted by God Himself. No code, no man`s interpretations, just straight forward God speaking.....

regards, Marilyn.
 
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Marilyn C

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God`s purpose is -

`...that in the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth - in Christ.` (Eph. 1: 11)

And the book of Revelation bring to a conclusion all the God has said and shown previously.


THE FOUR VISIONS

The predominant aim of Revelation is the setting forth the splendours of the Son of Man, & to reveal His glorious person. There are four visions of the Son of Man as He is known in the heavenly realm & each vision in turn carries through to completion one aspect of the fourfold ministry of Christ which He exercised when on earth. His Kinship was expressed in Matthew, His Heirship in Mark, His Mediatorship in Luke, & His Judgeship in John.

Vision 1. CHRIST - Head of the Body. (Rev. 1 – 3)

This reveals the empowered Son of Man as the Sovereign Administrator.

`in His right hand He held 7 stars.`



Vision 2. CHRIST - HEIR (Rev. 4 – 7)

This reveals the enthroned Son of Man as the Supreme Executor.

`in His right hand He held the 7 sealed book.`


Vision 3. CHRIST - MEDIATOR (Rev. 8 – 13)

This reveals the exalted Son of Man as the Stately Mediator.

`in His hand is a sacred censor.`


Vision 4. CHRIST - JUDGE (Rev. 14 – 22)

This reveals the entitled Son of Man as the Sublime Adjudicator.

`in His hand is a sharp sickle.`




To reveal Christ to us in Revelation, there are three hundred & thirty references to the figures, shadows, symbols, types, patterns, persons, & buildings of the Old Testament.


This unveiling is the culmination of all the truths expressed from Genesis to Revelation, for all scripture is centred on one purpose and that is to reveal Christ to us in all His Glory.



Marilyn.
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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Hi DreamerOfTheheart,

Actually the book of Revelation is explained throughout God`s word. God wrote the Bible and He alone interprets it. ALL the symbols etc are found throughout God`s word and are interpreted by God Himself. No code, no man`s interpretations, just straight forward God speaking.....

regards, Marilyn.

This is not accurate. Code in Revelation does often relate back to code elsewhere in the Scripture. But, it is still code. You can call it metaphor, if you do not like the word 'code', but in context, you know it means the same thing.

Many claim their reading 'says so in Scripture', so this is probably your case. As it is with most of these folks. Someone they have wrongly trusted has told them meanings that are simply not there. But, they wanted to believe these lies. Usually because the false interpretation- or deciphering - says something like, 'you can continue in your sin, no harm will befall you for doing so'.

And, they take anyone saying otherwise as 'the devil', 'a witch', 'damned', or as the intepreters who opposed Jesus claimed, 'under the curse'.

That is just what people do. Especially when they have heavily invested in a lie.

But, 'better to give up the whole world, then lose your eternal soul'.

Truth is very few of these have even claimed to ever have seen real evidence. So, it is merely men making these interpretations, not God.

And their followers have had no real evidence.

They just believe liars, many of whom make money and other material, worldly gains from their lies.

I do not claim to know much of the underlying meanings of Revelation, and that which I do stands up to scrutiny to every resistence. I do get most of that from poring through various theories, but finally, the Spirit.

Most of what I do is debunk bad theories that do not stand up to the criteria of the given code.

It is obvious on unbiased inspection. Though some possible theories I can not entirely disprove by the code.

Those, I do not condemn as strongly, or in some cases, not at all.

Otherwise, the errors I find being often expressed here are obvious and painful. Those who espouse them clearly are basing their faith on delusions.

They should have 'first sought the Kingdom of Heaven', instead of rushing off with a false message.

Having theories and an open mind is fine. But insisting their beliefs in obvious lies is from God is failing to take Jesus' advice about rushing off to battle without first ascertaining your own troops strength versus your enemy.

But, then, they often are those who say,'who can make war with the beast?' Thinking the Kingdom of God is as fake as their churches, and as weak as the men who rule them. Not so.
 
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Marilyn C

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This is not accurate. Code in Revelation does often relate back to code elsewhere in the Scripture. But, it is still code. You can call it metaphor, if you do not like the word 'code', but in context, you know it means the same thing.
.

Hi DreamerOfTheHeart,

`God....having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to the good pleasure which He purposed in Himself that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both of which are in heaven and which are in earth - in Him.` (Eph. 1: 9 & 10)

God is NOT writing code for people to interpret, He has made KNOWN His will, His purposes in His word and that is to bring all things under Christ`s authority. The book of revelation reveal just that!

You have written many words but NOTHING relating to the scriptures concerning Christ that I wrote. Anyone can go on and on about what they think however it takes effort to actually converse regarding scripture. Hope you can take the time to study and do this.

Marilyn.
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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Hi DreamerOfTheHeart,

`God....having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to the good pleasure which He purposed in Himself that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both of which are in heaven and which are in earth - in Him.` (Eph. 1: 9 & 10)

God is NOT writing code for people to interpret, He has made KNOWN His will, His purposes in His word and that is to bring all things under Christ`s authority. The book of revelation reveal just that!

You have written many words but NOTHING relating to the scriptures concerning Christ that I wrote. Anyone can go on and on about what they think however it takes effort to actually converse regarding scripture. Hope you can take the time to study and do this.

Marilyn.

I have already 'made my salvation sure', Marilyn, so I prefer for you not to try and explain to me how you believe you are more approved then I am. Believe me, you won't unsettle my confidence in my own salvation.

God and Heaven as my witness.

That said, I stated what I stated. What then do the two candlesticks who stand before the Lord mean? Who are they? How do you know?

What is Babylon?

What is the stars falling from the sky as if a scroll or book being closed?

Who, or what, is the Beast, and what is the head of the Beast which as if 'died by the sword', but is as if resurrected and lives again?

These are codes. Metaphors.

Your statement from Ephesians has no relation to this.

God has not told humankind every mystery under Heaven, as you seem to be trying to claim.

What is Ezekiel's wheels? What does that represent?

I know the answers to these questions, but there is plenty I do not know.

Something you might do well to come to terms with. Jesus warned that you can not cure someone of blindness, if they claim they can see. Referring exactly to this manner of arrogance, claiming to know what all prophecies in Scripture mean.

So, if you can not answer one or all of those questions, I certainly will know you do not know what they mean.

I specifically pointed out the two candlesticks, because I know what book they trace back to.

Of all the questions I asked you, it is certainly the easiest one to answer. But, I find, people do not know the answer to it.

But, this one does fit your criteria. But, can you answer it?

The others do not.

The Spirit, however, makes plain to those whom the Spirit wishes to make plain to the answers.

However, quite frankly, I do not believe you know, and have every right to test you on this.

Because what you are claiming, effectively, is to know all things.

Heaven knows, some on earth may know. I know some things. I do not know all. But, to not claim that these are written in metaphor, parable, riddle, code is disingenuous, by any standard.

Dishonest.
 
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Marilyn C

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I have already 'made my salvation sure', Marilyn, so I prefer for you not to try and explain to me how you believe you are more approved then I am. Believe me, you won't unsettle my confidence in my own salvation.

God and Heaven as my witness.

That said, I stated what I stated. What then do the two candlesticks who stand before the Lord mean? Who are they? How do you know?

Hi DreamerOfTheheart,

Sorry that you think I come over as to `know all things.` I only pointed out that the Lord is the focus, God`s will and purpose that He will bring all things under His authority.

So glad you mentioned details. Now it looks like we can agree on some of these.

1. The two candlesticks, as you said is quite easy. In one of the important prophetic books for eschatology - Zech. 4. And more scriptures are needed to name them. They are Moses & Elijah, the two men talking to Jesus (Matt. 17: 2) concerning His departure, (cross), then at the tomb (Luke 24: 4) and when the Lord ascended, (Acts 1: 10)

They represent the Law & the Prophets. These are the two witnesses who come in the tribulation to witness to Israel of what they have seen and heard. As that is what a witness does - witness to what they have seen and heard. They heard the Lord talk of His departure via the cross when they met Him on the Mount when the Lord was transfigured. Then after the cross we see these two men at the empty tomb witnessing to the Lord not there. Finally we see them when the Lord ascends into heaven, witnessing of His ascension to the father.

Thus these two men, Moses and Elijah, representing to Israel the Law and the Prophets will be sent by God to witness to the people of Israel concerning what they saw and heard of the Lord - His death, rising from the dead and then ascension into glory.

How gracious of God to send these witnesses to Israel, and who also, by the Spirit have exceedingly great powers,

I`ll leave it there for the moment as you may like to reply to that. We can do the other questions as well if you like.

Marilyn.
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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Hi DreamerOfTheheart,

Sorry that you think I come over as to `know all things.` I only pointed out that the Lord is the focus, God`s will and purpose that He will bring all things under His authority.

So glad you mentioned details. Now it looks like we can agree on some of these.

1. The two candlesticks, as you said is quite easy. In one of the important prophetic books for eschatology - Zech. 4. And more scriptures are needed to name them. They are Moses & Elijah, the two men talking to Jesus (Matt. 17: 2) concerning His departure, (cross), then at the tomb (Luke 24: 4) and when the Lord ascended, (Acts 1: 10)

They represent the Law & the Prophets. These are the two witnesses who come in the tribulation to witness to Israel of what they have seen and heard. As that is what a witness does - witness to what they have seen and heard. They heard the Lord talk of His departure via the cross when they met Him on the Mount when the Lord was transfigured. Then after the cross we see these two men at the empty tomb witnessing to the Lord not there. Finally we see them when the Lord ascends into heaven, witnessing of His ascension to the father.

Thus these two men, Moses and Elijah, representing to Israel the Law and the Prophets will be sent by God to witness to the people of Israel concerning what they saw and heard of the Lord - His death, rising from the dead and then ascension into glory.

How gracious of God to send these witnesses to Israel, and who also, by the Spirit have exceedingly great powers,

I`ll leave it there for the moment as you may like to reply to that. We can do the other questions as well if you like.

Marilyn.


How do you know that Moses and Elijah are the 'two candlesticks'?

You have implied that the verse in Ephesians tells you that 'all things are known'. But, you know very well you do not know all things.

I know this, too.

Can you tell me, even, where in Scripture the two candlesticks are mentioned, outside of Revelation?

They are mentioned, but I will hold this card close to my chest.


Otherwise, this is not a new theory. It is not a bad theory, as theories in Revelation go. It is wrong. But, it is not a terrible theory. It is a theory. It is not new, it has been around since before the fifth century. No one positioned it as prophecy, the word of God, however. They presented it as a theory. A possibility. No one claimed God told them this was the answer.


Did God tell you this is who the two candlesticks are?
 
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Marilyn C

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How do you know that Moses and Elijah are the 'two candlesticks'?

You have implied that the verse in Ephesians tells you that 'all things are known'. But, you know very well you do not know all things.

I know this, too.

Can you tell me, even, where in Scripture the two candlesticks are mentioned, outside of Revelation?

They are mentioned, but I will hold this card close to my chest.

Hi DreamerOfTheheart,

I think you are a bit confused there. I never said I knew all things. God`s word says that `He might gather together in one all things in Christ...` (Eph. 1: 10) Let`s get that clear!

`...my two witnesses....These are the two Olive trees, and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth..` (Rev. 11: 3 & 4)

`What are these two olive trees, one at the right of the lampstand and the other at its left....These are the two anointed ones who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth.` (Zech. 4: 11 & 14)

Quite clear that the 2 olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth, are the two witnesses. God Himself explains His word.

Marilyn.
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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Hi DreamerOfTheheart,

I think you are a bit confused there. I never said I knew all things. God`s word says that `He might gather together in one all things in Christ...` (Eph. 1: 10) Let`s get that clear!

`...my two witnesses....These are the two Olive trees, and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth..` (Rev. 11: 3 & 4)

`What are these two olive trees, one at the right of the lampstand and the other at its left....These are the two anointed ones who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth.` (Zech. 4: 11 & 14)

Quite clear that the 2 olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth, are the two witnesses. God Himself explains His word.

Marilyn.


Thank you for clearing that up.

You wrote, 'revelation is not written in code for man to decipher'. This is true, in the sense that only God can decipher its' meanings.

There are a lot of reasons why human beings and angels might need to know what parts of Revelation mean.

Part of the process of seeking is to try and understand the meaning of it. If one has a need to try and understand the meaning of it.

'Seek, and you will find'.

When someone stops and says, 'this means this', then they are no longer seeking. The spiritual value for them is lost. They are blind, and unable to see.

You also argue that Revelation is just all about Jesus. It is. But, so is all of creation. Revelation operates as a sort of signet ring for God. 'All things were made by Jesus, through Jesus, for Jesus'.

But, why did God do this? Merely to congratulate himself? No. For children and friends.

'God is love'.

Specifics do and can matter. I had to know the meaning of some matters in Revelation, because of some severe revelations given to me. I had no choice but to seek the answer. I was not looking for fame, honor, or money. I was looking for what these things meant.

So, I do not judge man or angels for looking for more specific meanings.

If you do judge them, as you seem to claim to do, that is your own business.

I do not judge you for that, nor am I bothered if you judge me for prying more deeply. As you then have no idea of the circumstances I was put in. And still find myself in.

As for 'the two lampstands' being 'the two witnesses' and being the 'two olive trees', this is true. But, you know this was not the question I asked of you.

They are not 'Moses & Elijah', so you did not come to believe that from God.

It is a theory, and you know it, so unless it just came to you for the purposes of communication, you arrived at that theory by trying to decipher it.
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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Talk about arrogance spoken in riddles, wow!

It would only be 'arrogant' if I was lying.

Not everyone pretends to have knowledge of God, which they do not actually have.

My post was to another poster, and it was in riddle to them. I do see them as having knowledge of God.

Why would anyone bother to interject their self into a conversation with someone else, and go over it, line by line, bolding some statements, underlining others?

Did I get inside your head? Do you think continuing will free you? Do you see yourself as some kind of religious cop? On whose authority, and why?

I certainly see that as arrogant. Reminds me of Saudi Arabian religious police. Who operate exactly as the Pharisees did.

I am not responding to your arguments about 'Babylon' being 'Islam', because there is nothing further to respond to. That is your personal opinion. Maybe someone will buy it. I am not.

If you are trying to make your argument to the poster I am talking to, good luck. I strongly doubt she will buy that 'Babylon is Islam'.

Probably you can find some convert to your ways, somewhere. 'Travel across land and sea to do it'.

Do not think because you got my attention a few times, that you will always get my attention.

Mostly, I ignore your sorts, after finding out what you know, or do not know.
 
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