Question about eternal damnation

Ronald said:

We are participants, cooperating with God's plan. God works through us to do good works. This is why James says, "show me your works." It is not works to achieve salvation, Christ did that work. God has a plan, and His plan deals with our lives, to be reconciled to Him and conformed to the likeness of Christ.
We have to wake up every morning and say, "Here I am, what would you have me do today LORD?" "Your will be done in my life."
The body of Christ is all the believers functioning like cells within the fibers, organs and systems in our bodies. Living cells, not dead cells, accomplish His plan.
Peace to you, may the grace of God shine on you living soul and forever.

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In the Book of Matthew, where the Judgment Day is depicted for us in the imagery of One seated upon a throne and dividing the sheep from the goats, the test of a man then is not, "How have I believed?" but "How have I loved?"

The test of religion, the final test of religion, is not religiousness, but Love. I say the final test of religion at that great Day is not religiousness, but Love; not what I have done, not what I have believed, not what I have achieved, but how I have discharged the common charities of life.

Sins of commission in that awful indictment are not even referred to. By what we have not done, by sins of omission, we are judged. It could not be otherwise. For the withholding of love is the negation of the spirit of Christ, the proof that we never knew Him, that for us He lived in vain. It means that He suggested nothing in all our thoughts, that He inspired nothing in all our lives, that we were not once near enough to Him to be seized with the spell of His compassion for the world. It means that:--

"I lived for myself, I thought for myself,
For myself, and none beside--
Just as if Jesus had never lived,
As if He had never died."

It is the Son of Man before whom the nations of the world shall be gathered. It is in the presence of Humanity that we shall be charged. And the spectacle itself, the mere sight of it, will silently judge each one. Those will be there whom we have met and helped: or there, the unpitied multitude whom we neglected or despised. No other Witness need be summoned. No other charge than lovelessness shall be preferred. Be not deceived. The words which all of us shall one Day hear, sound not of theology but of life, not of churches and saints but of the hungry and the poor, not of creeds and doctrines but of shelter and clothing, not of Bibles and prayer-books but of cups of cold water in the name of Christ. Thank God the Christianity of to-day is coming nearer the world's need. Live to help that on. Thank God men know better, by a hairsbreadth, what religion is, what God is, who Christ is, where Christ is. Who is Christ? He who fed the hungry, clothed the naked, visited the sick. And where is Christ? Where?--whoso shall receive a little child in My name receiveth Me. And who are Christ's?

Every one that loveth is born of God.

THE GREATEST THING IN THE WORLD

FineLinen said:

Stand before Him in this new year; let your life vibrate between the Tuning Forks of Heaven. Your entire being will undergo radical transformation, not in one encounter, but in the present progressive glory of coming to know Him in the unspeakable.

In those encounters there are common every day bushes that require a removal of one's shoes.

“Earth's crammed with heaven,
And every common bush afire with God,
But only he who sees takes off his shoes;
The rest sit round and pluck blackberries.”

― Elizabeth Barrett Browning

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Is it not strange the long seasons that can elapse on the back-side of the desert? Year by year falls into the great abyss, and at the juncture where we can no longer speak, and the great struggle to do the will of God vanishes into weakness and death, the Bush appears pulsating with Deity. It is there at the asamuth of death and weakness the Living One speaks.

"Take off your shoes from off your feet"

Holy ground! The place where dust and Divinity meet! It is there in absolute weakness and inability, the Lord manifests Himself as the God who raises the dead. The road into the Tree of Life is by way of the flaming swords swirling in every direction. Those who reach for the Tree will suffer the loss of the hand, the fingers, the grasp of all they are! And as the process of the swirling swords rage upon these ones, great loss is inflicted, for nothing, no one, comes to the other side the same as it enters..NOTHING!...NOTHING!...NOTHING!

The great stages of the Living One's glory must be in degrees of doxa. We are changed from one degree of glory to another and another! It requires a thought beginning in the mind of the caterpillar that ultimately leads to the building of a cocoon from which caterpillars become butterflies, and dust moves from the road of life into the Divine One, described as "the Living", the "I am", not the I was, the I AM.

It is this Heavenly Road that grasps us, the Heavenly One, the Source leading to the Road, the sustaining Guide of the Road, and the Goal of the Road. All things lead to Him, through Him and for Him! And by Him all things consist. It has taken me over 70 years to go a journey that could be accomplished in 11 days, but dust and Divinity must meet; the goal is not all the story, the path is of equal value in the I AM! Each of us are on different stages of our Father's drawing hand, some so wrapped up in themselves they cannot see the bush that is aflame and is not devoured. It is just a common bush for many, but

"Earth's crammed with heaven, and every common bush afire with God; and only he who sees takes off his shoes. -Eliz. Barrett Browning-

Study Bible
The Song of Moses
…3For I will proclaim the name of the LORD. Ascribe greatness to our God! 4He is the Rock, His work is perfect; all His ways are just. A God of faithfulness without injustice, righteous and upright is He. 5His people have acted corruptly toward Him; their spot is not that of His children, but of a perverse and crooked generation.…
Berean Study Bible · Download

yeshuaslavejeff said:

It is your argument only that I am addressing here, (apparently), that something not inspired, could ever be as good as what is true from God (i.e. inspired by God).
i.e. regardless of your position or posts , if you rely on what is not from God, then you are building on quicksand, like the house not built on solid rock when the storm comes.

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That is the attitude of all heterodox religious groups. Which to them justifies their false teachings. I have in no way substituted historical evidence for scripture. But I have used historical evidence to give me a better understanding. Unlike heterodox groups that tend to give their own meanings to Hebrew and Greek words and ignore anything which contradicts the teachings of their particular group.
.....Actually you and other heterodox followers are building on their own understanding or the teachings of some leader or teacher in their group. I'm kinda funny that way. I think the native Hebrew speakers know better what the Hebrew of the OT means than someone who could not locate a Hebrew verb or conjugate a Greek verb if their life depended on it.

Der Alter said:

That is the attitude of all heterodox religious groups. Which to them justifies their false teachings. I have in no way substituted historical evidence for scripture. But I have used historical evidence to give me a better understanding.

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False assumptions. And bearing (wittingly or unwittingly) false witness against some (not all ).

Der Alter said:

Unlike heterodox groups that tend to give their own meanings to Hebrew and Greek words and ignore anything which contradicts the teachings of their particular group.

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Non-sequitur. Unrelated to my question and concern here.

Der Alter said:

.Actually you and other heterodox followers are building on their own understanding or the teachings of some leader or teacher in their group.

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More bearing false witness.

Der Alter said:

I'm kinda funny that way. I think the native Hebrew speakers know better what the Hebrew of the OT means than someone who could not locate a Hebrew verb or conjugate a Greek verb if their life depended on it.

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Funny not good.

Correction might not be possible. I don't know. Is now the time to try ?

ClementofA said:

Those who believe will be saved from God's anger & the lake of fire. Those who do not believe will suffer God's anger/wrath until they reconciled to God, as all shall be. All will obtain life, righteousness & God in them:

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Here's the flaw. You claim reconciliation, faith, salvation, a relationship with God, His grace is instituted in Hades or Hell (if the unbelievers do not receive it while living.) This is similar to the idea of Purgatory. But even Catholics don't believe all will be saved.

ClementofA said:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

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That one act of Christ "leads to justification > through faith. It is offered to ALL MEN, a free gift > but you must receive it. If someone gives you a gift you have to take it. If you don't take, how then can you possess it. Again this idea that God's drawing power of Grace, His calling, our justification, and faith comes in the darkness of Hades or Hell is absurd.

ClementofA said:

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

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Many, not all.

ClementofA said:

“In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”

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Nope.

ClementofA said:

Premise 1: God desires all be saved. (e.g., 1 Timothy 2:4: "[God] who desires (thelo) all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.")

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Yes He does desire all and for none to perish, but that is not how love works does it? His Love is given freely and but must be received willingly by man. We need to believe in Him to love Him. God gives His sheep to Jesus and they hear His voice. Not all are His sheep.

ClementofA said:

Where does it say anyone isn't & God's love expires as quickly as a carton of milk? If Love Omnipotent doesn't save all is it because He's impotent or He doesn't want to? See below:

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Your superficial analogy of God's 6,000 year plan for mankind compared to a expiration date on a carton of milk is pathetic.

ClementofA said:

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb into the eons of the eons.

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Right every creature at that time was saved, those who weren't were not present. Therefore all means those after the Judgment.

ClementofA said:

John "heard" everyone worshiping the Lamb, including those in the sea. In the gospels Jesus sent some demons into pigs who then went into the sea & drowned (Mt.8:32; Mk.5:13; Lk.8:33). Humans have also drowned in the sea, both the wicked & just. John saw them all worshiping the Lamb. Likewise those "under the earth" in their graves and in Hades.

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Again, those in heaven, on earth, including those who were dead and raised (in Christ) enjoy eternal life. This also includes all men since the beginning who put their faith in the true God of the Bible and the coming Messiah, share in eternal life as well, since Christ's sacrifice was imputed to them.

ClementofA said:

How can they do that unless they were outside the city gates before?

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The gates of the city of Jerusalem where our King Jesus will reside? Nations around the world will be filled with believers only - unbelievers will not be on earth.

ClementofA said:

In all but the last citation the kings of the earth are portrayed in Revelation as aligned with Mystery Babylon and are the enemies of God. Yet, in 21:24 we find that the "kings of the earth" will one day bring their splendor into the New Jerusalem. One must therefore ask how or why are the kings of the earth who are consistently and without exception portrayed in Revelation as evil and unrepentant, allowed into the New Jerusalem where "nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life" (21:27). I cannot find any scriptural evidence that these kings of the earth are any different than the previous references. Therefore the only conclusion I can arrive at is it that appears that even the kings of the earth after having spent some unknown time in the lake of fire will one day repent and be allowed to enter into the New Jerusalem."

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During the Millennial kingdom, when after the Second coming of Jesus, He will rule (physically on earth) for 1000 years. Also during this time, many will be chosen to be kings on the earth and priests as well according to your spiritual maturity and responsibility you had on earth. They will be kings who have been appointed by God as God has always appointed all leaders (Rom. 13:1)

ClementofA said:

Isaiah 60
2"For behold, darkness will cover the earth And deep darkness the peoples; But the LORD will rise upon you And His glory will appear upon you. 3"Nations will come to your light, And kings to the brightness of your rising.

Isaiah 62:2
The nations will see your righteousness, And all kings your glory; And you will be called by a new name Which the mouth of the LORD will designate.

Revelation 21:24
By its light the nations will walk, and into it the kings of the earth will bring their glory.

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All during the Millennial Kingdom > Christians only during this time. Towards the end of the Millennial, some will go astray who have been born during that time and so need to be tested, when Satan is released once again to tempt them. After this, the Great White Throne Judgment, then the second death.

FineLinen said:

In the Book of Matthew, where the Judgment Day is depicted for us in the imagery of One seated upon a throne and dividing the sheep from the goats, the test of a man then is not, "How have I believed?" but "How have I loved?"

The test of religion, the final test of religion, is not religiousness, but Love. I say the final test of religion at that great Day is not religiousness, but Love; not what I have done, not what I have believed, not what I have achieved, but how I have discharged the common charities of life.

Sins of commission in that awful indictment are not even referred to. By what we have not done, by sins of omission, we are judged. It could not be otherwise. For the withholding of love is the negation of the spirit of Christ, the proof that we never knew Him, that for us He lived in vain. It means that He suggested nothing in all our thoughts, that He inspired nothing in all our lives, that we were not once near enough to Him to be seized with the spell of His compassion for the world. It means that:--

"I lived for myself, I thought for myself,
For myself, and none beside--
Just as if Jesus had never lived,
As if He had never died."

It is the Son of Man before whom the nations of the world shall be gathered. It is in the presence of Humanity that we shall be charged. And the spectacle itself, the mere sight of it, will silently judge each one. Those will be there whom we have met and helped: or there, the unpitied multitude whom we neglected or despised. No other Witness need be summoned. No other charge than lovelessness shall be preferred. Be not deceived. The words which all of us shall one Day hear, sound not of theology but of life, not of churches and saints but of the hungry and the poor, not of creeds and doctrines but of shelter and clothing, not of Bibles and prayer-books but of cups of cold water in the name of Christ. Thank God the Christianity of to-day is coming nearer the world's need. Live to help that on. Thank God men know better, by a hairsbreadth, what religion is, what God is, who Christ is, where Christ is. Who is Christ? He who fed the hungry, clothed the naked, visited the sick. And where is Christ? Where?--whoso shall receive a little child in My name receiveth Me. And who are Christ's?

Every one that loveth is born of God.

THE GREATEST THING IN THE WORLD

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Well, I do believe the message of the Bible and God is Love. His two commandments were to love God and love your neighbor and all other commandments fall under those. Yes, we are called to give and love. And everyone who loves is of God. But that's the point, not everyone loves do they. And not everyone is of God. God's love works through those who love Him and are called to His purpose. This is the evidence of a Christian, brotherly love and so the scripture is a litmus test: "By their fruits, you will know them." Not all display fruit of the Holy Spirit!

FineLinen said:

In the Book of Matthew, where the Judgment Day is depicted for us in the imagery of One seated upon a throne and dividing the sheep from the goats, the test of a man then is not, "How have I believed?" but "How have I loved?"

The test of religion, the final test of religion, is not religiousness, but Love. I say the final test of religion at that great Day is not religiousness, but Love; not what I have done, not what I have believed, not what I have achieved, but how I have discharged the common charities of life.

Sins of commission in that awful indictment are not even referred to. By what we have not done, by sins of omission, we are judged. It could not be otherwise. For the withholding of love is the negation of the spirit of Christ, the proof that we never knew Him, that for us He lived in vain. It means that He suggested nothing in all our thoughts, that He inspired nothing in all our lives, that we were not once near enough to Him to be seized with the spell of His compassion for the world. It means that:--

"I lived for myself, I thought for myself,
For myself, and none beside--
Just as if Jesus had never lived,
As if He had never died."

It is the Son of Man before whom the nations of the world shall be gathered. It is in the presence of Humanity that we shall be charged. And the spectacle itself, the mere sight of it, will silently judge each one. Those will be there whom we have met and helped: or there, the unpitied multitude whom we neglected or despised. No other Witness need be summoned. No other charge than lovelessness shall be preferred. Be not deceived. The words which all of us shall one Day hear, sound not of theology but of life, not of churches and saints but of the hungry and the poor, not of creeds and doctrines but of shelter and clothing, not of Bibles and prayer-books but of cups of cold water in the name of Christ. Thank God the Christianity of to-day is coming nearer the world's need. Live to help that on. Thank God men know better, by a hairsbreadth, what religion is, what God is, who Christ is, where Christ is. Who is Christ? He who fed the hungry, clothed the naked, visited the sick. And where is Christ? Where?--whoso shall receive a little child in My name receiveth Me. And who are Christ's?

Every one that loveth is born of God.

THE GREATEST THING IN THE WORLD

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Well, I do believe the message of the Bible and God is Love. His two commandments were to love God and love your neighbor and all other commandments fall under those. Yes, we are called to give and love. And everyone who loves is of God. But that's the point, not everyone loves do they. And not everyone is of God. God's love works through those who love Him and are called to His purpose.

To Universalists who strain to include all mankind into God’s Eternal Kingdom


“and to those contentious, and disobedient, indeed, to the truth, and obeying the unrighteousness -- indignation and wrath, Rom. 2:8 There is no new found belief and obedience in Hades or the Lake of Fire.

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6 There is no coming to Jesus after you die, there is no forgiveness in Hades.

“For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?” Matt. 16:26 One can forfeit his soul, otherwise this verse would not have been written.

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.” Ecc. 12:13 We need to believe in God, to fear Him and then also keep His commandments. This does not occur after one has been condemned to Hades and Hell.

“But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,” 1 Cor.15:23 His sheep hear His voice, not all do and not all are His.

“ Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” John 8:24 There it is, Jesus final word on the subject, it’s an either or and you must believe at some point during this life.

“according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.” 1 Pet. 1:2 The Holy Spirit sanctifies us during our lifetime, we obey Christ during our lifetime and are born again as well – not after we die does any of this occur.

“ Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.” 1 Cor. 6:11 We are washed by His blood when we receive forgiveness during our lives – not in Hell.

“For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;” 1 Pet. 3:18

“But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never have forgiveness, but is guilty of an everlasting sin.” Mark 3:29 Speaking evil of God is something atheists do, and unbelievers do quite often, they make a mockery of Him. The fool says in his heart, there is no god.

“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;” Eph. 2:8 In our Bibles, we read of FAITH and of the many stories occurring throughout the history of mankind. These stories occurred during lifetimes. There is no record of anyone receiving faith in Hades or Hell! Sheol is the “land of darkness”, “without order”(Job 10:22); where “those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Your faithfulness”(Is.38:18); “for in death there is no remembrance of You, in the grave who shall give You thanks?” (Psalm 6:5”); where “there is a great chasm fixed, so that none may cross over …”(Luke 16:26); and as Jesus claimed, “how will you escape the sentence of hell?”(Matt. 23:33); where “burning coals fall on them and are cast into fire, into deep pits from which they cannot rise.”(Psalm 140:10).

“The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 1 John 5:10 This is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, an unpardonable sin.

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.” John 3:16 Not everyone believes.

“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.” Mark 16:16 Condemnation is final.

“ He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:18 God knows the end from the beginning. He knows those who will not believe and has already judged them – these are called reprobates.

“ He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 Again, there is no obedience or faith in Hell, only judgment and destruction.

“ For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:40

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.” John 6:47

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.” John 5:24 One must pass from death to life and this can only be accomplished while you are physically alive.

Ronald said:

To Universalists who strain to include all mankind into God’s Eternal Kingdom

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Dear Ronald: Since we are "commanded" to "teach" God is the Saviour of all mankind, there simply is zero strain involved! Our God is NOT a potential Saviour; He is Saviour of all mankind! But wait God is not only Saviour of all/pas mankind, He is Saviour of the malista!

From Him the all, through Him the all, in Him the all

FineLinen said:

begin

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<FL>Dear Ronald: Since we are "commanded" to "teach" God is the Saviour of all mankind, there simply is zero strain involved! Our God is NOT a potential Saviour; He is Saviour of all mankind! But wait God is not only Saviour of all/pas mankind, He is Saviour of the malista!
From Him the all, through Him the all, in Him the all<FL>

end

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Perhaps you could show those of us who are interested exactly where God, Himself, speaking or Jesus, Himself, speaking unequivocally say that they will save all mankind whether or not they are saved when they die.?
.....I have seen all of the out-of-context proof texts. No need to repeat them.

Dear Ronald: The strain is overwhelmingly in favour of the One who declares He will draw/ drag off with power all mankind unto Himself. The strain is His declaration to consummate the all in His beloved Son. Yup,

From Him the all, through Him the all, in Him the all

Dear Ronald: The strain, the strain, the strain=

"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. And you..."

Ronald said:

That one act of Christ "leads to justification > through faith. It is offered to ALL MEN, a free gift > but you must receive it. If someone gives you a gift you have to take it. If you don't take, how then can you possess it.

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Dear Ronald: the gift of being "made sinners"in Adam1 is ours free of charge whether you want to receive it or no!

Yes Ronald, the polus "made sinners" is precisely the polus "made righteous" in the Last Adam: every last one!

Dear Ronald: The great "strain" of "being made righteous" by no choice of our own is so overwhelming! The gift of "being made sinners" is obliterated by the Last Adam who presents the same mass in Adam1 (the polus) righteous! Glory to His blessed Name.

"And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled..."

Your new word for today=

Palaginessia=

Dear Ronald: The strain= "All mankind is imprisoned in disobedience."

Yes, Ronald that is the radical pas!

What is the outcome of this incarceration?

Mercy upon all.

The same radical pas imprisoned in disobedience= the radical pas experiencing mercy.

Have you ever come on anything quite like this extravagant generosity of God, this deep, deep wisdom? It’s way over our heads. We’ll never figure it out.

Is there anyone around who can explain God? Anyone smart enough to tell him what to do? Anyone who has done him such a huge favor that God has to ask his advice?

Everything comes from him;
Everything happens through him;
Everything ends up in him.

Always glory! Always praise! Yes. Yes. Yes.

"Whole"=

Constituting the total sum or undiminished entirety.

"God did shut up together the whole to unbelief, that to the whole He might do kindness."

FineLinen said:

"Whole"=constituting the total sum or undiminished entirety.
"God did shut up together the whole to unbelief, that to the whole He might do kindness."

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Pity that this proof text does not say what you think it does.
Notice the word [ελεηση/elésé] which is translated "he might have mercy" is a V-AAS-3S verb, active, aorist, subjunctive. 3rd person, singular. "The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility and potentiality. The action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances." If Paul intended to say that God would definitely have mercy/compassion on the whole he would have have used the indicative mood as he did in Romans 9:15. Hope this helps.
.

Dear Ronald: You state “To Universalists who strain to include all mankind into God’s Eternal Kingdom…”

The strain= “All mankind is imprisoned in disobedience.”

Yes, Ronald that is the radical pas!

What is the outcome of this incarceration?

Mercy upon all.

The same radical pas imprisoned in disobedience= the radical pas experiencing mercy.

Have you ever come on anything quite like this extravagant generosity of God, this deep, deep wisdom? It’s way over our heads. We’ll never figure it out.

Is there anyone around who can explain God? Anyone smart enough to tell him what to do? Anyone who has done him such a huge favor that God has to ask his advice?

Everything comes from him;
Everything happens through him;
Everything ends up in him.

Always glory! Always praise! Yes. Yes. Yes.

“Whole”=

Constituting the total sum or undiminished entirety.

“God did shut up together the whole to unbelief, that to the whole He might do kindness.”

"For God hath shut up all together, in a refusal to yield, in order that, upon all, he may bestow mercy. " -Rotherham Emphasized-

“For God has locked up all in the prison of unbelief, that upon all alike He may have mercy.” F. W. Weymouth

"For God encloses, shuts up and locks all men (everyone; the all [pl.]) into uncompliance (disobedience; stubbornness), to the end that He may mercy all men (may make everyone, the all, recipients of mercy)! -Jonathan Mitchell N.T.

From eternity past God intended that the most vivid and profound demonstration of his glory would come in the form of His work of salvation on the cross of Christ.

- God then made man to punish him.

- He made him perfect and thus unlikely to ever need punishing, or, for that matter, a Savior.

- By a happy coincidence, and against all the odds, this perfect man sinned, thus allowing God to fulfill His purposes for both the man and Christ.

- When he sinned, God, who is suddenly confronted with the prospect of being able to fulfill all of His original plans, becomes furious.

What you have just read is not a joke. I wish that it were.

Rather, I have simply enumerated the points that comprise the Calvinist theological system, or, as I call it:

the Happy Coincidence model of sin and salvation.

It reflects what can only be described as an Alice-in-Wonderland reality, in -which the only sense is nonsense, and logic is the enemy. -Stephen Campana-

Ronald said:

To Universalists who strain to include all mankind into God’s Eternal Kingdom

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6 There is no coming to Jesus after you die, there is no forgiveness in Hades.

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Dear Ronald: A couple of questions for you>>>>>

1. What does it mean to be IN/EN Christ?

2. What is the scope of the heavens, the earth & the underworld?

3. Is the confession & bowing by all beings in Phil 2 by perfunctory genuflections?

4. What is the scope of Rev. 5 in reference to all beings in all dimensions of our God?

"And EVERY creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:

“Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!”

"Every created thing (παν κτισμα — pān ktisma). Every creature in a still wider antiphonal circle beyond the circle of angels (from κτιζω — ktizō for which see 1 Timothy 4:4; James 1:18), from all the four great fields of life (in heaven, upon the earth, under the earth as in Revelation 5:3, with on the sea επι της ταλασσης — epi tēs thalassēs added). No created thing is left out. This universal chorus of praise to Christ from all created life reminds one of the profound mystical passage in Romans 8:20-22 concerning the sympathetic agony of creation (κτισις — ktisis) in hope of freedom from the bondage of corruption. If the trail of the serpent is on all creation, it will be ultimately thrown off." -F.W.Robertson-