End Times Anti-Christ Theory

jgr said:

The prince who has come is Messiah.

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Not messiah but prince of the people who destroyed the city and sanctuary.

ewq1938 said:

Nor does he confirm a covenant with many people for one week.

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He confirmed His covenant (Matthew 26:28) during the first half of the 70th contiguous week with Israel, and with the Gentiles during the second half.

Douggg said:

Not messiah but prince of the people who destroyed the city and sanctuary.

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The people of the prince refers to the Roman armies which were Messiah's agents and instruments to accomplish the judgment and destruction which He had prophesied. God's use of such instruments, and His characterization of them as "mine" even though pagan, can be found in several OT instances e.g.:

Jeremiah 25
9 Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the Lord, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations.

Jeremiah 43
10 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will send and take Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will set his throne upon these stones that I have hid; and he shall spread his royal pavilion over them.

God characterizes the pagan Nebuchadnezzar as "my servant" in using him and his armies against Judah and Egypt.

In the same way as Nebuchadnezzar, though a pagan, was God's servant in executing His judgment, so too were the pagan Roman armies Messiah's people in accomplishing His purposes.

In addition, the Jews themselves, as the historical people of Prince Messiah, were equally responsible for the destruction and suffering. Their own actions in defiling and destroying the buildings and temple prior to the Roman invasion are described by Josephus:

The Lamentation of Josephus
War 5.1.4 19-20

The darts that were thrown by the engines [of the seditious factions] came with that force, that they went over all the buildings and the Temple itself, and fell upon the priests and those that were about the sacred offices; insomuch that many persons who came thither with great zeal from the ends of the earth to offer sacrifices at this celebrated place, which was esteemed holy by all mankind, fell down before their own sacrifices themselves, and sprinkled that altar which was venerable among all men, both Greeks and barbarians, with their own blood. The dead bodies of strangers were mingled together with those of their own country, and those of profane persons with those of the priests, and the blood of all sorts of dead carcasses stood in lakes in the holy courts themselves.
Oh most wretched city, what misery so great as this didst thou suffer from the Romans, when they came to purify thee from thy internal pollutions! For thou couldst be no longer a place fit for God, nor couldst thou longer survive, after thou hadst been a sepulchre for the bodies of thine own people, and hast made the Holy House itself a burying-place in this civil war of thine. Yet mayst thou again grow better, if perchance thou wilt hereafter appease the anger of that God who is the author of thy destruction.

As seen, Josephus recognizes the Jews as agents of their own destruction, and that destruction as Divinely orchestrated.

Contemporary Jewish historians concur:
"The scene was now set for the revolt's final catastrophe. Outside Jerusalem, Roman troops prepared to besiege the city; inside the city, the Jews were engaged in a suicidal civil war. In later generations, the rabbis hyperbolically declared that the revolt's failure, and the Temple's destruction, was due not to Roman military superiority but to causeless hatred (sinat khinam) among the Jews (Yoma 9b). While the Romans would have won the war in any case, the Jewish civil war both hastened their victory and immensely increased the casualties. One horrendous example: In expectation of a Roman siege, Jerusalem's Jews had stockpiled a supply of dry food that could have fed the city for many years. But one of the warring Zealot factions burned the entire supply, apparently hoping that destroying this "security blanket" would compel everyone to participate in the revolt. The starvation resulting from this mad act caused suffering as great as any the Romans inflicted."


The people, both Roman and Jewish, of the prince Messiah who was to come, were Messiah's agents and instruments in accomplishing His purposes of judgment and destruction against those who had rejected Him.

keras said in post #77:

Daniel 11:21 refers to the Anti-Christ [obviously a name used only after Jesus' Advent] as a vile person...who obtains the kingdom by flatteries and smooth words.

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That's right.

Also, in a future, antitypical fulfillment of Daniel 11:22-23, it can refer to two different future leaders: the Antichrist and an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" in Jerusalem. That is, Daniel 11:22-23 can mean: "with the arms of a flood [an overwhelming armed attack] shall they [the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem] be overflown from before him [the Antichrist], and shall be broken [defeated]; yea, also the prince of the covenant [an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" claiming to rule under the Old Covenant Mosaic law]. And after the league made with him [the ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah", cf. Daniel 9:26a] he [the Antichrist] shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people".

This "small people" could be the numerically-small Druze Arab people (of whom the future Antichrist could be one), and/or the numerically-small, yet very powerful, Gnostic Luciferians, also called Satanists (of whom the Antichrist is one), who are networked by a worldwide secret society, and who currently hold some very high positions of power in the world's top corporations, banks, intelligence agencies, federal law enforcement agencies, military branches, and the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of the world's governments. While some of these people may already be in the highest positions, many could be strategically placed in the number-two and/or number-three positions, so that they can quickly take control when the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast) comes into worldwide power (Revelation 13:7-18), by them murdering those who are now in the highest positions (such as by lacing their coffees with drugs which cause heart attacks, but which leave no residue detectable in autopsies).

Kaon said in post #80:

This antichrist entity is going to follow a very specific entity - who is only mentioned in the Gnostics. However, that entity in the gnostics is also called the God of Forces - as per Daniel 11:38.

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Daniel 11:36-39 refers to the future Antichrist, who will declare himself God above all gods (2 Thessalonians 2:4), except for "the God of forces" (Daniel 11:38), who is Lucifer (Satan) the dragon, "the god of this world" (2 Corinthians 4:4). Lucifer will be consciously and openly worshipped by the non-Christian world as the God who is giving power to the Antichrist, the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast" (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9). The Antichrist could say that he is the human/divine Son of Lucifer, one God with Lucifer, and empowered by Lucifer, just as for Biblical Christians, Jesus Christ is the human/divine Son of YHWH God the Father (John 3:16,36), one God with the Father (John 1:1,14, John 10:30, John 20:28), and empowered by the Father (John 14:10).

Douggg said in post #87:

My commentary is that basically, the little horn leader of Europe will head that direction [Middle East] with a strong army. And occupy the region following Gog/Magog on the premise of keeping peace and stability in the region.

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Regarding the Gog/Magog invasion of Israel (Ezekiel chapters 38-39), note that it will not occur until after the future Millennium (Revelation 20:7-10), when there will be no defensive walls or fear of attack in Israel whatsoever (Ezekiel 38:11). This is the exact opposite of today's situation, when Israel is filled with very high defensive walls and is in constant fear of attack. At the beginning of the Millennium, all present-day weapons of war throughout the world will be destroyed, and they will not be allowed to be remade during the Millennium (Micah 4:3-4, Hosea 2:18b). That is why after the Millennium, the Gog/Magog armies will travel only by horses (Ezekiel 38:15), and will employ only rudimentary, wooden weapons like bows and arrows, spears, shields, and clubs (Ezekiel 39:9), which, after the defeat of the Gog/Magog armies, will be able to be used as convenient firewood by the people living in Israel at that time, instead of them having to go out and collect or cut down firewood from the forest (Ezekiel 39:10).

The Gog in Revelation 20:8 is the same as in Ezekiel chapters 38-39: an individual human whose personal name is "Gog" (Ezekiel 38:3). He will be the chief leader of a future country which will form somewhere north of Israel (Ezekiel 39:2, Ezekiel 38:15), and which will be called "Magog" (Ezekiel 38:2). It will include at least two major cities and/or tribes which will be called "Meshech" and "Tubal" (Ezekiel 38:2). This country could come into existence during the future Millennium. Gog could be born near the end of the Millennium, and he will be killed and buried at the end of the Gog/Magog event (Ezekiel 39:11).

Both accounts of the event show that the Gog/Magog armies will ultimately be completely defeated by miraculous fire from heaven (Ezekiel 38:22, Revelation 20:9). Also, whereas the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) will occur subsequent to the Gog/Magog event (Revelation 20:7-15), nothing requires (as is sometimes claimed) that the Great White Throne Judgment has to happen immediately after that event. For there will be at least seven years (Ezekiel 39:9b) between the end of that event and the Great White Throne Judgment.

Also, the Gog/Magog attack will not have to (as is sometimes claimed) involve only the nations listed in Ezekiel chapters 38-39. Those nations could be just a sampling. For the "nations" (ethnos), or peoples, who will be involved in the Gog/Magog attack will come from all over the earth (Revelation 20:8). They will still be physically part of Jesus Christ's worldwide Kingdom, still legally under His rule, just as they had been during the preceding Millennium (Psalms 72:8-11, Psalms 66:3, Psalms 2). But after the Millennium, they will be deceived by Satan into committing the attack (Revelation 20:7-10).

Also, while the Gog/Magog attack on Israel will not occur until after the future Millennium (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), Israel could suffer a different attack before the Millennium, at the start of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which attack could result in Israel's total defeat and occupation (Daniel 11:15-17).

Also, the city of Jerusalem could be attacked and totally defeated in the future at least three times before the Millennium: once near the start of the future Tribulation (Daniel 11:22), then again mid-tribulation (Daniel 11:31), and then at the Tribulation's end (Daniel 11:45), right before Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming and the start of the Millennium (Zechariah 14:2-21).

ewq1938 said:

The new covenant began when he died and it was not for one week nor did anything happen in the midst of a supposed week regarding any covenant and Christ.

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Daniel 9
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The grammatical antecedent of he is the closest preceding clarifying noun, prince.
The prince is Messiah, who was crucified in the midst of the week.
The covenant is everlasting, and was confirmed with Israel and the Gentiles of that time, for a period of seven years, the first 3 1/2 during Christ's ministry, and the last 3 1/2 during Paul's ministry.

jgr said in post #103:

The people of the prince refers to the Roman armies which were Messiah's agents and instruments to accomplish the judgment and destruction which He had prophesied.

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In the first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b,27b, Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD by Roman-empire soldiers from nations throughout the Roman empire (which included the territory of modern-day Lebanon). These soldiers were "the people" in Daniel 9:26, their "prince" being Titus. In the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b, Jerusalem will be destroyed by soldiers from all of the nations of the earth, which will be under the future Antichrist's rule (Revelation 13:7b) when their armies gather against Jerusalem right before Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Zechariah 14:2-21).

And just as the city in Daniel 9:26 is Jerusalem, so the sanctuary is the Jewish temple building in Jerusalem. In the first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b, the second Jewish temple was destroyed in 70 AD by Roman-empire soldiers. In the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b, a future, third Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4) will be destroyed along with the rest of Jerusalem (Matthew 24:2, Luke 19:44), when Jerusalem is pillaged by armies from all of the nations of the earth, right before Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming to save and restore Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:2-21).

Bible2+ said:

In the first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b,27b, Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD by Roman-empire soldiers from nations throughout the Roman empire (which included the territory of modern-day Lebanon). These soldiers were "the people" in Daniel 9:26, their "prince" being Titus. In the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b, Jerusalem will be destroyed by soldiers from all of the nations of the earth, which will be under the future Antichrist's rule (Revelation 13:7b) when their armies gather against Jerusalem right before Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Zechariah 14:2-21).

And just as the city in Daniel 9:26 is Jerusalem, so the sanctuary is the Jewish temple building in Jerusalem. In the first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b, the second Jewish temple was destroyed in 70 AD by Roman-empire soldiers. In the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b, a future, third Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4) will be destroyed along with the rest of Jerusalem (Matthew 24:2, Luke 19:44), when Jerusalem is pillaged by armies from all of the nations of the earth, right before Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming to save and restore Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:2-21).

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I take this to mean that there is no word in Daniel 9:24-27 which is presumed to refer to antichrist.

If I am incorrect, then what is that word?

jgr said:

I take this to mean that there is no word in Daniel 9:24-27 which is presumed to refer to antichrist.

If I am incorrect, then what is that word?

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I wonder what you are trying to do, jgr?
Why must you so adamantly deny that a man will arise in the end times and will actually be in control of all the world in the last 3 1/2 years of this era?

Daniel 7:23-25 refers to the man called the 'beast' in Revelation, as the 4th king.
In Daniel 9:27, he is the prince who makes a 7yr peace treaty with the nation in the holy Land.
In Daniel 11:21-45, he is a despicable man who grabs the kingship by deceit.
In 2 Thess 2:3-4 Paul calls him 'wickedness in human form' and 'the adversary who sits in God's Temple'. Read carefully 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 for more details.

A powerful leader will rule the earth in the last days, this is undeniable prophecy, but Jesus will defeat him when He Returns. PTL!

keras said:

I wonder what you are trying to do, jgr?
Why must you so adamantly deny that a man will arise in the end times and will actually be in control of all the world in the last 3 1/2 years of this era?

Daniel 7:23-25 refers to the man called the 'beast' in Revelation, as the 4th king.
In Daniel 9:27, he is the prince who makes a 7yr peace treaty with the nation in the holy Land.
In Daniel 11:21-45, he is a despicable man who grabs the kingship by deceit.
In 2 Thess 2:3-4 Paul calls him 'wickedness in human form' and 'the adversary who sits in God's Temple'. Read carefully 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 for more details.

A powerful leader will rule the earth in the last days, this is undeniable prophecy, but Jesus will defeat him when He Returns. PTL!

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Do you believe that Scripture interprets and confirms Scripture? I do.

Christ is corroborated and confirmed outside of Daniel 9 to be a prince multiple times in Scripture (Isaiah 9:6; Acts 3:15; Acts 5:31; Revelation 1:5).

Where in Scripture is antichrist corroborated and confirmed outside of Daniel 9 to be a prince?

jgr said:

The people of the prince refers to the Roman armies which were Messiah's agents and instruments to accomplish the judgment and destruction which He had prophesied. God's use of such instruments, and His characterization of them as "mine" even though pagan, can be found in several OT instances e.g.:

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jgr, you cited samples for your argument from the old testament regarding the Babylonians, Jeremiah 23 and Jeremiah 25.

So where are the similar verses in the old testament regarding the Roman empire, and it's leader spoken of in the same manner?

Bible2+ said:

Regarding the Gog/Magog invasion of Israel (Ezekiel chapters 38-39), note that it will not occur until after the future Millennium (Revelation 20:7-10), when there will be no defensive walls or fear of attack in Israel whatsoever (Ezekiel 38:11).

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You are mistiming the Gog/Magog invasion of Ezekiel 38/39.

7 years after Gog/Magog in Ezekiel 39:21-29, Jesus Himself is speaking, having returned to earth, having carried out Judgement on them gathered to make war on Him at Armageddon in Ezekiel 39:17-20.

It is a 100% concrete, no possibility for any other interpretation, of when the Gog/Magog invasion takes place.

I show it on my chart. But the text of Ezekiel 39:17-29 makes it indisputable.

jgr said:

I take this to mean that there is no word in Daniel 9:24-27 which is presumed to refer to antichrist.

If I am incorrect, then what is that word?

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There is only one word that refers to the person when he is in the role of the Antichrist.

"he"

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Before then, the person is the prince who shall come, the little horn, leader of the Roman Empire of end times.

jgr said:

Where in Scripture is antichrist corroborated and confirmed outside of Daniel 9 to be a prince?

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I can show where that person is corroborated to be a prince. In Ezekiel 28:2, the person is code named the prince of Tyrus.

Ezekiel 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

ewq1938 said:

The new covenant began when he died and it was not for one week nor did anything happen in the midst of a supposed week regarding any covenant and Christ.

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Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was "confirmed" "first" with Daniel's people for a period of about 7 years, before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles.


Do you deny this fact?

Did God rip the temple veil in half at the moment Christ died at Calvary?

Did this occur about 3 1/2 years after the command given to take the Gospel to Israel in Matthew 10:5-7?

How long was the earthly ministry of Christ, based on the fact that Bible scholars have found 4 Passovers in the Gospels?

Can you explain why the scriptural reference beside of Daniel 9:27 in my NKJV Bible is Matthew 26:28?

.

BABerean2 said:

Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was "confirmed" "first" with Daniel's people for a period of about 7 years, before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles.


Do you deny this fact?

Did God rip the temple veil in half at the moment Christ died at Calvary?

Did this occur about 3 1/2 years after the command given to take the Gospel to Israel in Matthew 10:5-7?

How long was the earthly ministry of Christ, based on the fact that Bible scholars have found 4 Passovers in the Gospels?

Can you explain why the scriptural reference beside of Daniel 9:27 in my NKJV Bible is Matthew 26:28?

.

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Thanks for the correction on the 7-year duration, BAB2; I shouldn't be posting at 3 AM.

Douggg said:

I can show where that person is corroborated to be a prince. In Ezekiel 28:2, the person is code named the prince of Tyrus.

Ezekiel 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

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Ezekiel's prophecies regarding Tyre were historically fulfilled.

Messiah is explicitly confirmed as a prince in both the OT and the NT.

Antichrist does not exist in OT vocabulary. It exists exclusively in NT vocabulary.

If the prince of Tyrus is presumed to refer to antichrist, then where in the NT is antichrist confirmed as a prince?

jgr said:

If the prince of Tyrus is presumed to refer to antichrist, then where in the NT is antichrist confirmed as a prince?

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The Anti-Christ does have royal authority, Revelation 17:12-13
He is, therefore a 'prince'.
Your continued denials of this truth, are an indictment against you.