1000 years in heaven.

Original Happy Camper · Dec 11, 2018

ewq1938 said:
Everyone understands that. The judging of the saves happens when he returns. The judging of the unsaved is at a later time according to Rev 20 and other scriptures already posted.

This verse indicates that all are judged at the same time, either your name is in the book of life or it is not. based on an investigative judgment.

Daniel 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

as the wicked are not written in the book of life.

The righteous receive their reward at the first resurrection and the wicked receive their reward at the end of the 1000 years called the second resurrection.

Revelation 22:10-12 King James Version (KJV)
10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Bruce Leiter · Dec 11, 2018

BobRyan said:
Christ takes all the saints to heaven for 1000 years at the 2nd coming. -- "I will come again" John 14.

the 1000 years are literal -

But it is not where Christ reigns on Earth because Revelation 19 says all the wicked are killed when Christ comes again (second coming) - and John 14 says that when He comes again he takes the saints with Him - back to heaven.

Nothing left here but a desolate Earth - as the OT prophets predicted.

======================
DESOLATE Earth

Rev 20:4-5 shows the ”First Resurrection” Which is the resurrection of the saints the “dead in Christ” as Paul says in 1Thess 4 at our “Gathering together to Him” 2Thess 2:1-4 a the “Coming of the Lord” (Both 2Thess 2 and 1Thess 4 point that out).

Rev 19 says that the living wicked are destroyed by fire and by the sword that comes from Christ “at the coming of the Lord” – it says “The rest were killed by the sword” that comes from Christ. Vs 21

At that time Christ raptures the church (in the singular event He promised in John 14) and we are taken to heaven both the living AND the dead (raised at the First Resurrection).

So what about the earth? That leaves “no one” here – so does the Bible describe earth as left without humans, dead corpses from one end of earth to another?
No one left to bury the dead? Cities all destroyed? Really?

Millennium – a time without a single human remaining alive. Not a glorious place to live - but a place where birds feeding on rotting corpses of mankind. And yet it is temporary – only lasting for 1000 years.

This feast of the birds we see described again in Rev 19 where the lamb destroys certain of mankind

Ez 32:4-8
4 ""I will leave you on the land; I will cast you on the open field. And I will cause all the birds of the heavens to dwell on you, And I will satisfy the beasts of the whole earth with you.
5 ""I will lay your flesh on the mountains And fill the valleys with your refuse.
6 ""I will also make the land drink the discharge of your blood As far as the mountains, And the ravines will be full of you.
7 ""And when I extinguish you, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars; I will cover the sun with a cloud And the moon will not give its light.
8 ""All the shining lights in the heavens I will darken over you And will set darkness on your land,'' Declares the Lord GOD.

Jer 4:23
I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void; And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, And all the hills moved to and fro.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no man, And all the birds of the heavens had fled.

26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness, And all its cities were pulled down Before the LORD, before His fierce anger.

Jer 25:33
""Those slain by the LORD on that day will be from one end of the earth to the other. They will not be lamented, gathered or buried; they will be like dung on the face of the ground.

Zeph 1:18

Neither their silver nor their gold Will be able to deliver them On the day of the LORD'S wrath; And all the earth will be devoured In the fire of His jealousy, For He will make a complete end, Indeed a terrifying one, Of all the inhabitants of the earth.

Isaiah 24
1 Behold, the LORD lays the earth waste, devastates it, distorts its surface and scatters its inhabitants.
2 And the people will be like the priest, the servant like his master, the maid like her mistress, the buyer like the seller, the lender like the borrower, the creditor like the debtor.
3 The earth will be completely laid waste and completely despoiled,

It is obviously a World Wide Calamity – World Wide catastrophe

Isaiah 24
17 Terror and pit and snare Confront you, O inhabitant of the earth.
18 Then it will be that he who flees the report of disaster will fall into the pit, And he who climbs out of the pit will be caught in the snare; For the windows above are opened, and the foundations of the earth shake.
19 The earth is broken asunder, The earth is split through, The earth is shaken violently.
20 The earth reels to and fro like a drunkard And it totters like a shack, For its transgression is heavy upon it, And it will fall, never to rise again.

You string together a lot of passages, but what are the contexts? I've been on all sides of the issue in Bible interpretation. Simply, I believe that the present age between Jesus' 1st and 2nd comings is the "1,000 years," a nonliteral period of time like all the other figurative numbers in Revelation. I think that perhaps Satan has been set loose now. I make a strong break between chapters 19 and 20. At the end of 19, Jesus' 2nd coming is pictured. Then, the 1,000 years start in a new vision when Satan is released, since he was restrained so that the gospel could go out into all the earth as it has been.

First Thess. 4:13-18 describes Jesus' 2nd coming. All resurrected believers are caught up to welcome him back to the new earth, which is pictured briefly at the beginning of Rev. 20. The new Jerusalem, which is a picture of OT and NT believers in God's presence, comes down to the new earth.

Of course, we can all be "pan-millennialists." It'll all pan out!!

BobRyan · Dec 11, 2018

BobRyan said: ↑
1. The saints are taken to heaven at Christ's return (second coming) - as Christ promised in John 14.

ewq1938 said:
They are not taken to heaven nor does that passage speak of where the saints are taken to. .

John 14
“Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

The "Father in heaven"(Matthew 6 - Lord's Prayer) - to "My Father's house"

Jesus went to heaven. We know in fact "the place" -- is heaven.

Acts 1
9 And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. 11 They also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.”

1 Thess 4 - when a love one dies we have this hope --
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

ewq1938 said:
That's where the dead saints go when they die.

Christ's words are specific -- He takes the saints to heaven when He returns. We call it "the rapture" and it happens at the 2nd coming.

In Rev 20 AFTER the thousand years are complete the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven - the saints are then on Earth.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Also take note the camp of the saints is on the Earth after the thousand years

BobRyan · Dec 11, 2018

Christ takes all the saints to heaven for 1000 years at the 2nd coming. -- "I will come again" John 14.

ItIsFinished! said:
Do you believe in a literal 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth?

the 1000 years are literal -

But it is not where Christ reigns on Earth because Revelation 19 says all the wicked are killed when Christ comes again (second coming) - and John 14 says that when He comes again he takes the saints with Him - back to heaven.

Nothing left here but a desolate Earth - as the OT prophets predicted.

======================
DESOLATE Earth

Rev 20:4-5 shows the ”First Resurrection” Which is the resurrection of the saints the “dead in Christ” as Paul says in 1Thess 4 at our “Gathering together to Him” 2Thess 2:1-4 a the “Coming of the Lord” (Both 2Thess 2 and 1Thess 4 point that out).

Rev 19 says that the living wicked are destroyed by fire and by the sword that comes from Christ “at the coming of the Lord” – it says “The rest were killed by the sword” that comes from Christ. Vs 21

At that time Christ raptures the church (in the singular event He promised in John 14) and we are taken to heaven both the living AND the dead (raised at the First Resurrection).

So what about the earth? That leaves “no one” here – so does the Bible describe earth as left without humans, dead corpses from one end of earth to another?
No one left to bury the dead? Cities all destroyed? Really?

Millennium – a time without a single human remaining alive. Not a glorious place to live - but a place where birds feeding on rotting corpses of mankind. And yet it is temporary – only lasting for 1000 years.

This feast of the birds we see described again in Rev 19 where the lamb destroys certain of mankind

Ez 32:4-8
4 ""I will leave you on the land; I will cast you on the open field. And I will cause all the birds of the heavens to dwell on you, And I will satisfy the beasts of the whole earth with you.
5 ""I will lay your flesh on the mountains And fill the valleys with your refuse.
6 ""I will also make the land drink the discharge of your blood As far as the mountains, And the ravines will be full of you.
7 ""And when I extinguish you, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars; I will cover the sun with a cloud And the moon will not give its light.
8 ""All the shining lights in the heavens I will darken over you And will set darkness on your land,'' Declares the Lord GOD.

Jer 4:23
I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void; And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, And all the hills moved to and fro.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no man, And all the birds of the heavens had fled.

26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness, And all its cities were pulled down Before the LORD, before His fierce anger.

Jer 25:33
""Those slain by the LORD on that day will be from one end of the earth to the other. They will not be lamented, gathered or buried; they will be like dung on the face of the ground.

Zeph 1:18

Neither their silver nor their gold Will be able to deliver them On the day of the LORD'S wrath; And all the earth will be devoured In the fire of His jealousy, For He will make a complete end, Indeed a terrifying one, Of all the inhabitants of the earth.

Isaiah 24
1 Behold, the LORD lays the earth waste, devastates it, distorts its surface and scatters its inhabitants.
2 And the people will be like the priest, the servant like his master, the maid like her mistress, the buyer like the seller, the lender like the borrower, the creditor like the debtor.
3 The earth will be completely laid waste and completely despoiled,

It is obviously a World Wide Calamity – World Wide catastrophe

Isaiah 24
17 Terror and pit and snare Confront you, O inhabitant of the earth.
18 Then it will be that he who flees the report of disaster will fall into the pit, And he who climbs out of the pit will be caught in the snare; For the windows above are opened, and the foundations of the earth shake.
19 The earth is broken asunder, The earth is split through, The earth is shaken violently.
20 The earth reels to and fro like a drunkard And it totters like a shack, For its transgression is heavy upon it, And it will fall, never to rise again.

Bruce Leiter said:
You string together a lot of passages, but what are the contexts?

The "details" in the texts show that it is "all the Earth" and "all mankind" and the future condition where the cities are in ruins and the mountains quake and there is "no man".

First Thess. 4:13-18 describes Jesus' 2nd coming.

True. That is when Jesus comes to take the saints to heaven as He promised in John 14:1-3

Of course, we can all be "pan-millennialists." It'll all pan out!!

That only works out well - one way if you think about it.

BobRyan · Dec 11, 2018

Rubiks said:
The Bible saying a day is like a thousand years isn't a cipher for interpreting the Bible. Other than that, I agree.

Actually it says "with the Lord a thousand years is as a day and a day is as a 1000 years" -- so in other words "if you are God... then a thousand years is not too long to wait and a day is not too short to get a 1000 years worth of things done"

Rubiks · Dec 11, 2018

BobRyan said:
Actually it says "with the Lord a thousand years is as a day and a day is as a 1000 years" -- so in other words "if you are God... then a thousand years is not too long to wait and a day is not too short to get a 1000 years worth of things done"

I was paraphrasing.

ewq1938 · Dec 11, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
Not true they are both judged at the same time by their works.

They are not judged at the same time. All the scriptures show the saved being judged first and the others at a different time. Once again, it is Rev 20 that tells us how much time passes inbetween the first and second judgments.

ewq1938 · Dec 11, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

That right there proves your belief that all are judged at the same time to be wrong. This second group is not resurrected and judged at the same time as the others were. I suggest to stay away from Rev 20 if you want to teach the saved and unsaved are resurrected and judged at the same time.

JazzHands · Dec 11, 2018

Well, for what it's worth, and I realise this may not be very canon, I'm inclined towards ewq's interpretation. I still think this 'world' is a like a Hogwarts for souls and even if you have to stay behind a few years to catch up on the curriculum, you get your wizard diploma eventually!

ewq1938 · Dec 11, 2018

Original Happy Camper said:
This verse indicates that all are judged at the same time, either your name is in the book of life or it is not. based on an investigative judgment.

That verse says nothing about all being judged at the same time plus Rev 20 proves that cannot be true:

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Obviously we have a separate group of the dead that aren't resurrected and judged at the same time as the first group was. There are two days of resurrection and judgment. This "all are judged at the same time" is pure fiction.

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Dec 11, 2018

ewq1938 said:
They are not judged at the same time. All the scriptures show the saved being judged first and the others at a different time. Once again, it is Rev 20 that tells us how much time passes inbetween the first and second judgments.

Between the righteous dead(1st resurrection) and the rest of living and dead both righteous and unrigteous at the Lord's coming(second resurrection), yes. That is what we see in Revelation 20, 1000 years dividing the 1st resurrection(righteous dead) and the second resurrection(everyone else).

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Dec 11, 2018

ewq1938 said:
That right there proves your belief that all are judged at the same time to be wrong. This second group is not resurrected and judged at the same time as the others were. I suggest to stay away from Rev 20 if you want to teach the saved and unsaved are resurrected and judged at the same time.

The righteous dead are raised separate from everyone else(righteous and unrighteous). That is my belief and that is what I have shown several times.
Two resurrections
1. Righteous dead before thousand years
2. Everyone else after thousand years.

That is what is shown in revelation 20

JazzHands · Dec 11, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
The righteous dead are raised separate from everyone else(righteous and unrighteous). That is my belief and that is what I have shown several times.
Two resurrections
1. Righteous dead before thousand years
2. Everyone else after thousand years.

That is what is shown in revelation 20

Maybe that should be enough Stephen.. you're clearly strong in faith and I envy you for your biblical literacy but is it necessary to insist that all interpretations should be hierarchical? I think the fact that we all believe in Jesus is enough to discern faith.

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Dec 11, 2018

ewq1938 said:
They are not judged at the same time. All the scriptures show the saved being judged first and the others at a different time. Once again, it is Rev 20 that tells us how much time passes inbetween the first and second judgments.

I think your confusion(of what I believe is shown in scripture) seems to be arising from the fact that only those who have been killed for Christ are raised in the first Resurrection(only the righteous dead are raised in this resurrection).

Then everyone else are raised in the second(both righteous and unrighteous are judged in this resurrection)

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Dec 11, 2018

JazzHands said:
Maybe that should be enough Stephen.. you're clearly strong in faith and I envy you for your biblical literacy but is it necessary to insist that all interpretations should be hierarchical? I think the fact that we all believe in Jesus is enough to discern faith.

There can only be one true doctrine, therefore only one true interpretation exists. I come to discuss and compare doctrines, if mine is in error then I seek for it to be proven wrong with strong doctrine. If mine is right(as I truly believe it is until shown otherwise) then I hope that by comparing doctrines others may see the truth and light of God's word.

I agree, that we all believe on Christ is enough to discern faith. But after faith must come pure doctrine and studying to show oneself approved, trying all doctrines by God's word.

JazzHands · Dec 11, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
There can only be one true doctrine, therefore only one true interpretation exists. I come to discuss and compare doctrines, if mine is in error then I seek for it to be proven wrong with strong doctrine. If mine is right(as I truly believe it is until shown otherwise) then I hope that by comparing doctrines others may see the truth and light of God's word.

I agree, that we all believe on Christ is enough to discern faith. But after faith must come pure doctrine and studying to show oneself approved, trying all doctrines by God's word.

That's a very sincere appraisal and I applaud your commitment to the scientific 'stress testing' method of your path to enlightenment.. that takes guts!!

My brain isn't like yours, I'm detached from doctrine and I abhor convention so I go where my soul takes me.. I HOPE it takes me to the right destination but my flying blind is part of my faith.

You're a pillar Stephen and a good man! GBU!

ewq1938 · Dec 11, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
Between the righteous dead(1st resurrection) and the rest of living and dead both righteous and unrigteous at the Lord's coming(second resurrection),

Nope. All the dead in Christ rise at the same time not some one time and some rising with goats and unsaved people.

yes. That is what we see in Revelation 20, 1000 years dividing the 1st resurrection(righteous dead) and the second resurrection(everyone else).

"everyone else" means the unrighteous dead. No righteous dead are there because they were resurrected in the first resurrection.

ewq1938 · Dec 11, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
The righteous dead are raised separate from everyone else(righteous and unrighteous).

That's a clear contradiction. Did Christ miss some of the righteous dead the first time??

ewq1938 · Dec 11, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
I think your confusion(of what I believe is shown in scripture) seems to be arising from the fact that only those who have been killed for Christ are raised in the first Resurrection(only the righteous dead are raised in this resurrection).

They are not the only ones who are resurrected in the first resurrection. Rev 20 only focuses on that particular group. Paul wrote the dead in Christ "rise first" which is the same as "first resurrection".

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Dec 11, 2018

ewq1938 said:
They are not the only ones who are resurrected in the first resurrection. Rev 20 only focuses on that particular group. Paul wrote the dead in Christ "rise first" which is the same as "first resurrection".

Yes. The dead in Christ rise first. It does not say, the living in Christ rise first.

What Paul does say is that those who are alive and remain at Christ's coming at the Last trump.

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