1000 years in heaven.

[BobRyan]

Christ takes all the saints to heaven for 1000 years at the 2nd coming. -- "I will come again" John 14.

Do you believe in a literal 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth?

the 1000 years are literal -

But it is not where Christ reigns on Earth because Revelation 19 says all the wicked are killed when Christ comes again (second coming) - and John 14 says that when He comes again he takes the saints back with Him - back to heaven.
(Jesus went to heaven Acts 1 and comes back from heaven -- Phil 3:20
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;NASB)

They are there for 1000 years that starts with the "First resurrection" Rev 20:5 which is when the "Dead in Christ rise first" 1 Thess 4:16

And all the wicked are slain at Christ's coming 2 Thess 1:7-8 Rev 19:17-18

"Elephant in living room" of all other options on this topic -- is this.
Nothing left here but a desolate Earth - as the OT prophets predicted.

======================
DESOLATE Earth

Rev 20:4-5 shows the ”First Resurrection” Which is the resurrection of the saints the “dead in Christ” as Paul says in 1Thess 4 at our “Gathering together to Him” 2Thess 2:1-4 a the “Coming of the Lord” (Both 2Thess 2 and 1Thess 4 point that out).

Rev 19 says that the living wicked are destroyed by fire and by the sword that comes from Christ “at the coming of the Lord” – it says “The rest were killed by the sword” that comes from Christ. Vs 21

At that time Christ raptures the church (in the singular event He promised in John 14) and we are taken to heaven both the living AND the dead (raised at the First Resurrection).

So what about the earth? That leaves “no one” here – so does the Bible describe earth as left without humans, dead corpses from one end of earth to another?
No one left to bury the dead? Cities all destroyed? Really?

Millennium – a time without a single human remaining alive. Not a glorious place to live - but a place where birds feeding on rotting corpses of mankind. And yet it is temporary – only lasting for 1000 years.

This feast of the birds we see described again in Rev 19 where the lamb destroys certain of mankind

Ez 32:4-8
4 ""I will leave you on the land; I will cast you on the open field. And I will cause all the birds of the heavens to dwell on you, And I will satisfy the beasts of the whole earth with you.
5 ""I will lay your flesh on the mountains And fill the valleys with your refuse.
6 ""I will also make the land drink the discharge of your blood As far as the mountains, And the ravines will be full of you.
7 ""And when I extinguish you, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars; I will cover the sun with a cloud And the moon will not give its light.
8 ""All the shining lights in the heavens I will darken over you And will set darkness on your land,'' Declares the Lord GOD.

Jer 4:23
I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void; And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, And all the hills moved to and fro.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no man, And all the birds of the heavens had fled.

26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness, And all its cities were pulled down Before the LORD, before His fierce anger.

Jer 25:33
""Those slain by the LORD on that day will be from one end of the earth to the other. They will not be lamented, gathered or buried; they will be like dung on the face of the ground.

Zeph 1:18

Neither their silver nor their gold Will be able to deliver them On the day of the LORD'S wrath; And all the earth will be devoured In the fire of His jealousy, For He will make a complete end, Indeed a terrifying one, Of all the inhabitants of the earth.

Isaiah 24
1 Behold, the LORD lays the earth waste, devastates it, distorts its surface and scatters its inhabitants.
2 And the people will be like the priest, the servant like his master, the maid like her mistress, the buyer like the seller, the lender like the borrower, the creditor like the debtor.
3 The earth will be completely laid waste and completely despoiled,

It is obviously a World Wide Calamity – World Wide catastrophe


Isaiah 24
17 Terror and pit and snare Confront you, O inhabitant of the earth.
18 Then it will be that he who flees the report of disaster will fall into the pit, And he who climbs out of the pit will be caught in the snare; For the windows above are opened, and the foundations of the earth shake.
19 The earth is broken asunder, The earth is split through, The earth is shaken violently.
20 The earth reels to and fro like a drunkard And it totters like a shack, For its transgression is heavy upon it, And it will fall, never to rise again.

 

[ItIsFinished!]

Order of events friend, order of events.
If one is placed wrongly it will create much confusion.
Which we know God is not the author of.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[BobRyan]

Order of events friend, order of events.
If one is placed wrongly it will create much confusion.
Which we know God is not the author of.

I agree completely.

All of the world religions get this wrong. They expect an age of acquarius and an age of a new leader, a 1000 year period of peace on Earth --Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists etc

But the Bible says that when Jesus comes again -- He takes the saints to heaven.
Rev 20 says this event is the "first resurrection" 20:5-6
And 1 Thess 4 says it is when "the dead in Christ rise FIRST"

1 Peter 1:13 "fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the REVELATION of Jesus Christ" -- the second coming

=========================

I don't understand why any of this is especially significant? Dead, alive, righteous, unrighteous.. is the end goal not always the same.. to reach heaven? In due course, I DO believe that all will be reconciled as the last judgement alludes to but who cares who, what, when or why it happens? We are all of us searching for that path and all of us feel confident that we are on it.... let time decide... if some of us were wrong, let God continue our Hogwarts training and help us to better understand where we went wrong! It's that simple

Interesting that "differences have no consequences" idea brings in "Hogwarts". I find that interesting at least.

But as it turns out - "differences do have consequences".

1. The Jews expected the Messiah to come in a certain fashion - at the time of Christ.
2. But the Bible described a very different sort of event to take place with the Messiah's coming.

There were differences.
Those differences had consequences.

Jews that were tied to their traditions over a careful reading of the scriptures - rejected Christ because He did not have the same mission and message/agenda as they had predicted. They were "looking left" when they should have been "looking right".

In the same way we have two basic options on this thread despite all the differences.

1. Option-1 - the saints are all in heaven during the millennium and on Earth there is only desolation "I looked and behold - there was no man". As we see in the OP

2. Option 2 - all the saints are on Earth during the Millennium and so is Christ and a few unsaved people as well.

2Thess 2 and Rev 13 and Rev 16 and Rev 19 all tell us that Satan will be unleashed upon mankind just before the 2nd coming. His plan is pretty obvious and devastating if option - 1 is correct because in that case - his plan "is already working".

 

[BobRyan]

Only all of the wicked at the battle area are slain. There will be still
people left elsewhere on the earth. They will later be noted as goats
if they are yet alive when it is time for the new earth.

Rev 19 says the wicked army is killed by Christ - and that "the rest were killed" as well. all the wicked slain.

It is all the nations of the Earth -- all of their armies -

Rev 16
13 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs; 14 for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty. 15 (“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”) 16 And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.

Rev 19
13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. 15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16 And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.”
19 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.


And all the saints - both living and dead (dead are resurrected at the first resurrection) - are taken to heaven. Leaving the "desolate Earth" described in the OP.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[BobRyan]

John 14 - is the rapture, not the battle of Armageddon -which is later.

It is both.

John says in John 14 that Jesus will "come again" to take the saints to heaven. -- second coming.
John says in Rev 20 that the 'first resurrection' takes place at the second coming event described in Rev 19.
John says that the rulers of Earth are told to gather for the battle in Rev 16 during the 6th plague - and in Rev 19 at the second coming - we see them gathered for battle against Christ.

--
Jesus went to heaven and is coming back from heaven to take us to His Father's house - to heaven..

John 14
“Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

The "Father in heaven"(Matthew 6 - Lord's Prayer) - to "My Father's house"

Jesus went to heaven. We know in fact "the place" -- is heaven.

Acts 1
9 And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. 11 They also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.”

Phil 3:20
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

1 Thess 4 - when a love one dies we have this hope --
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[BobRyan]

The saints are resurrected back in Revelation 19, not chapter 20.

1. There are no chapter divisions in John's "Revelation"
2. There is no resurrection mentioned in chapter 19
3. Chapter 20 continues in the context of Rev 19 and tells us that the second coming even just described is what starts the 1000 years timeline and this is where we have the "first resurrection"
4. John tells us in John 14 that this happens when Christ "comes again" - second coming - is when the saints are taken to heaven.

 

[BobRyan]

Just as no saints get beheaded In Rev. 20, they also don't wait till then to live.

Rev 20 says the saints had been slain -- past tense and that they "came to life" in the "first resurrection".

It separates the resurrection of the wicked - from that of the righteous by 1000 years

 

[ewq1938]

Rev 19 says the wicked army is killed by Christ - and that "the rest were killed" as well. all the wicked slain.

No, only the remnant of the army is killed not every unsaved person on the planet. Rev 19 is a very localized area of war. Rev 2 makes clear there will be nations that will be reigned over by Christ and the overcomers proving not every unsaved person will die the day of the second coming.

 

[BobRyan]

Rev 19
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.”

No, only the remnant of the army is killed not every unsaved person on the planet. .

You are missing a few details

2 Thess 2
8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

2 Thess 1
when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

Could have added 2Thess 2 and 2 Thess 1 above to the OP introduction below.
============================

the 1000 years are literal -

But it is not where Christ reigns on Earth because Revelation 19 says all the wicked are killed when Christ comes again (second coming)

John 14 says that when He comes again he takes the saints with Him - back to heaven.

Nothing left here but a desolate Earth - as the OT prophets predicted.

 

[ewq1938]

You are missing a few details

Not me.

Again, Rev 2 makes quite clear the nations will be alive and reigned over after the return of Christ.

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the nations.

Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

After the second coming and after "the end" will the overcomers be given power over the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron. That proves the rod of iron rule over the nations does not even start until Christ has returned and has given overcomers this power to rule over the nations.


Rev_19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Again, the nations will be ruled over which cannot happen if they are all dead.

There are things Jesus has to accomplish when he returns:

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

He has to put down all rule and authority and power which is putting his enemies under his foot:

1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.


That is the rule of the rod of iron with his saints and it lasts a thousand years and that thousand years does not begin until he returns according to Rev 20 and Rev 2.

 

[BobRyan]

Not me.

Again, Rev 2 makes quite clear the nations will be alive and reigned over after the return of Christ.

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

1. The saints are taken to heaven at Christ's return (second coming) - as Christ promised in John 14.

2. Judgment is given over to the saints at that time - and as Paul reminds them in 1Cor 6 they judge not only the wicked of Rev 2 but also fallen angels.

3. "Rod of Iron" means - without mercy. In other words they are judging the wicked - the penalty that the wicked owe.

4. After the 1000 years the new Jerusalem comes down out of heaven and the wicked are resurrected then cast into the lake of fire... paying the penalty owed.

 

[EJ M]

And I do not believe Jesus will destroy/kill the children with the wicked when He comes back.
Children are innocent until the age of accountability and Abraham's question, Shall not the judge of all the earth do right? still rings down through the ages.
Maybe that is what we will do during the millennium, care for the children until they are grown.
And let's remember, no devil.
He will be in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years. Second best thing event coming in the near future.

 

[ewq1938]

1. The saints are taken to heaven at Christ's return (second coming) - as Christ promised in John 14.

They are not taken to heaven nor does that passage speak of where the saints are taken to. That's what is await people when they die not when Christ returns.

2. Judgment is given over to the saints at that time - and as Paul reminds them in 1Cor 6 they judge not only the wicked of Rev 2 but also fallen angels.

Yet Rev 2 disproves your position that all are slain. Some are reigned over after the second coming as Rev 2 proves.

3. "Rod of Iron" means - without mercy. In other words they are judging the wicked - the penalty that the wicked owe.

Nope. It is reigning over people very strictly. It is not judging them. They will be judged at the GWTJ after the period of time where they are reigned over.

4. After the 1000 years the new Jerusalem comes down out of heaven and the wicked are resurrected then cast into the lake of fire... paying the penalty owed.

NJ comes down after the wicked are judged not before it. This is only after the last living unsaved are deceived by Satan and surround Jerusalem and are killed by fire from God. Those were the ones being reigned by the saints who did not die at the second coming.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Seadish]

Christ takes all the saints to heaven for 1000 years at the 2nd coming. -- "I will come again" John 14.



the 1000 years are literal -

But it is not where Christ reigns on Earth because Revelation 19 says all the wicked are killed when Christ comes again (second coming) - and John 14 says that when He comes again he takes the saints with Him - back to heaven.

Nothing left here but a desolate Earth - as the OT prophets predicted.

======================
DESOLATE Earth

Rev 20:4-5 shows the ”First Resurrection” Which is the resurrection of the saints the “dead in Christ” as Paul says in 1Thess 4 at our “Gathering together to Him” 2Thess 2:1-4 a the “Coming of the Lord” (Both 2Thess 2 and 1Thess 4 point that out).

Rev 19 says that the living wicked are destroyed by fire and by the sword that comes from Christ “at the coming of the Lord” – it says “The rest were killed by the sword” that comes from Christ. Vs 21

At that time Christ raptures the church (in the singular event He promised in John 14) and we are taken to heaven both the living AND the dead (raised at the First Resurrection).

So what about the earth? That leaves “no one” here – so does the Bible describe earth as left without humans, dead corpses from one end of earth to another?
No one left to bury the dead? Cities all destroyed? Really?

Millennium – a time without a single human remaining alive. Not a glorious place to live - but a place where birds feeding on rotting corpses of mankind. And yet it is temporary – only lasting for 1000 years.

This feast of the birds we see described again in Rev 19 where the lamb destroys certain of mankind

Ez 32:4-8
4 ""I will leave you on the land; I will cast you on the open field. And I will cause all the birds of the heavens to dwell on you, And I will satisfy the beasts of the whole earth with you.
5 ""I will lay your flesh on the mountains And fill the valleys with your refuse.
6 ""I will also make the land drink the discharge of your blood As far as the mountains, And the ravines will be full of you.
7 ""And when I extinguish you, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars; I will cover the sun with a cloud And the moon will not give its light.
8 ""All the shining lights in the heavens I will darken over you And will set darkness on your land,'' Declares the Lord GOD.

Jer 4:23
I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void; And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, And all the hills moved to and fro.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no man, And all the birds of the heavens had fled.

26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness, And all its cities were pulled down Before the LORD, before His fierce anger.

Jer 25:33
""Those slain by the LORD on that day will be from one end of the earth to the other. They will not be lamented, gathered or buried; they will be like dung on the face of the ground.

Zeph 1:18

Neither their silver nor their gold Will be able to deliver them On the day of the LORD'S wrath; And all the earth will be devoured In the fire of His jealousy, For He will make a complete end, Indeed a terrifying one, Of all the inhabitants of the earth.

Isaiah 24
1 Behold, the LORD lays the earth waste, devastates it, distorts its surface and scatters its inhabitants.
2 And the people will be like the priest, the servant like his master, the maid like her mistress, the buyer like the seller, the lender like the borrower, the creditor like the debtor.
3 The earth will be completely laid waste and completely despoiled,

It is obviously a World Wide Calamity – World Wide catastrophe


Isaiah 24
17 Terror and pit and snare Confront you, O inhabitant of the earth.
18 Then it will be that he who flees the report of disaster will fall into the pit, And he who climbs out of the pit will be caught in the snare; For the windows above are opened, and the foundations of the earth shake.
19 The earth is broken asunder, The earth is split through, The earth is shaken violently.
20 The earth reels to and fro like a drunkard And it totters like a shack, For its transgression is heavy upon it, And it will fall, never to rise again.

Yes but the question on my mind is as God's children we get to go to the New earth also for 100 yrs? Then Satan is loved one more time before he is forever bound why if this kingdom and we are perfect in it would he be loosed on us again ?

 

[BobRyan]

Yes but the question on my mind is as God's children we get to go to the New earth also for 100 yrs? Then Satan is loved one more time before he is forever bound why if this kingdom and we are perfect in it would he be loosed on us again ?

all saints in heaven for the 1000 years... then the new Jerusalem comes down to Earth and the wicked are all resurrected. The wicked of all ages. So then you have all the wicked angels and all the wicked humans.

They then gather to war against the New Jerusalem Rev 20:6-8

But instead of finding "war" there - they find "The Great White Throne judgment" all the wicked judged - penalty executed as they are cast into the lake of fire. See Rev 20.

So this is not "Satan loved one more time".

 

[BobRyan]

Just as no saints get beheaded In Rev. 20, they also don't wait till then to live.

Rev 20 says the saints had been slain -- past tense and that they "came to life" in the "first resurrection".

Rev 20 separates the resurrection of the wicked - from that of the righteous by 1000 years in that it has the "first resurrection" of the "Holy and blessed" and then the resurrection that takes place after the 1000 years ... that of the wicked.

At the "first resurrection" all the saints (living and the dead) are taken to heaven where they judge the cases of the wicked and when the 1000 years are over the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven - and the wicked dead are raised.

It is separating the time that the saints will sit to rule and the time of Satan out of the pit to go out to deceive the nations.

Here is what the text says --

4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Satan Freed, Doomed
7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.